mermaidgirl

I have been a poster on the Friends and Families of Alcoholics; however, I have a question I thought this list could help me with. I am no longer with my A spouse-and my question does not involve him at all.

I am now in the dating world...and recently was involved in a relationship with a great guy (he is still a friend and colleague) who, finally gave me insight into his childhood. Side note: he has NEVER told anyone, but his childhood friend of the truth of his childhood-not evenly his former wife of 10 years.

He is the victim of an odd(?) famly situation where the family took in a boarder (times were tought for a while) who was a trucker. The bio father worked at night. When the boarder was home-he was a heavy drinker and was abusive in the bio father's absence. My friend-was literally the human shield between his younger siblings from the age of 9-13 and took whatever this guy dished out-physical abuse is probably only the start.

It finally ended when he gathered his mother and siblings and they ran from their home while this guy shot rounds at them as they ran to the car-and left.

Here is my question...I am all too familiar with the A behavior, but I was starting to see things in this relationship that were very familiar, or just uncomfortable. After he told me his history-and also said he has never received help or counseling (and he promised he would when he took this new job), things started to go sour with us. I am not perfect...but I do work on things and have come a loooong way in my own codie recovery and have been in weekly therapy for 2-1/2 years and I'm not stopping and not going backwards.

Are the behavior I have observed with this guy common to an adult child of an alcoholic? (I'm suspecting his mother was too): an admitted inability to show empathy; sees things as threats and responds (verbally) when they were only questions (this has happened professionally as well); inability to accept responsibility for his behavior; cannot listen...only argue with the other person (professionally as well).

Thank you for reading and for any place you can point me to on this. Not just for this ending (sadly) relationship but so I have the resources to spot and understand if these behaviors are the result of being the child of an A.

Thanks!:day6

doublewhammy

I think you will find a variety of answers to this question because everyone handles things differently. I have a sibling that behaves very similar to the way you describe. However, I myself have never had problems professionally or in my home like this.

Here is what I see in myself. I seem to have a good deal of empathy for people...IF they are trying to help themselves, no matter what the situation is. Here is the caveat, I do not have much compassion for people when they don't want/try to change and/or leave a bad situation or they repeatedly engage in the same behaviors over and over.

I find that I am so tired of the fighting in this stage in my life, so I certainly don't walk around professionally and personally looking for battles, but I'm no push-over and will not be walked on or allow those I love to be walked on either. I have zero tolerance for liars and this likely stems from having to prove to the world that I am telling the truth despite my mother's lies to cover lies to cover lies lifestyle that she has dragged us all into.

However, I do not have any problem accepting responsibility for things I do. I own everything I do. Good or bad. I may or may not be sorry for it, depending on what it is, but I accept it. People may not like how blunt I am, but I tell the truth and don't apologize for it.

I don't know if it is normal to see most things as threats being the child of an alcoholic, but in the case of your friend I think everything WAS a threat in his childhood. I mean for crying out loud...a stranger became a part of their home and was abusing his family...shooting at them as they tried to leave the person that they TOOK in. Sure would make me put my guard up! I am more of a glass half empty gal rather than glass half full, but that's because in my experience when I sense something bad...I usually hit it spot on. I have a very strong gut instinct to things and to this day it has never led me wrong.

I think everyone has had hardships of some kind in their lives and they all mold us into who we are today. Some people are stronger for it, learn from it and do well in life. Some struggle more than others...it's hard to put a label on it though. I think the behavior you are seeing in this guy is common to someone that has had hardships and experiences that were traumatizing, but I'm not so sure they are exclusive to having an alcoholic parent.

mermaidgirl

Doublewhammy-

Thank you very much for your response. This guy has 2 siblings; a sister who seems to have a very stable life. My guy had cut off all communication with the exception with his father from time to time. He is going to see his sister this Christmas for the first time-in many, many years.

It really sounds like you do not harbor some of the issues he has. He also is a double blackbelt and he has said his obsession with protection comes from his homelife. So, while I have always felt physically safe with him-I do not feel emotionally safe due to his lack of simple empathy and compassion, as well as never knowing what innocent question will "trigger" him verbally.

Thanks for your response...sounds like we really just don't belong together regardless of what all our issues are. I have been open (big step for me) about what I need-and he has told me he isn't good at it and he has no plan of working on it (mostly-the empathy issue and not veiwing me as some bizarre enemy when I only ask a question . Time to talk away...

mermaidgirl

doublewhammy

mermaidgirl,

It certainly sounds like you made a very smart decision removing yourself from a romantic relationship from this man. I do not think he is able to provide you want you desire from a relationship.

However, he must see some great qualities in you. He trusted you enough to confide this big secret. Maybe you can just be good friends to one another -- and nothing else -- sometimes that is so much more!!! I dated a guy for 5 years, we lived together even. We wanted different things and moved on. To this day we are great friends. Even were invited to one anothers weddings. Sometimes there is just a lot more value in a friendship.

dollydo

As a child, I went thru h@ll and back and had no one to talk to about my issues. At that time, in the 50's, there wasn't much available for children, and quite honestly, my parents were not interested in getting any help for themselves or me, it just wasn't done in that era.

This might sound odd to you, however, this experience with him may help you to continue to grow, you are now able to see the red flags, and, to me, that is good.

I am sorry for him and all of us ACOA's, we were all damaged, and are all still trying to heal...I am 64 and still working on me, today, I feel that I am in a good place, however, I will always be a work in progress.

You, my friend, are doing just fine!

mermaidgirl

Thanks to you all for allowing me to come here and post my concerns. I value people in my life so much-and of course the ones we have romantic ties to are the most difficult to change or end. I think we can remain friends-and that is wish; but the more we try, the worse it seems to get and the more emotionally open I become-the more he closes. I have to respect where he is and what he needs-and what I need and call it good.

Thanks again...

mermaidgirl

doublewhammy

You do seem to be in a very good place.

Good for you for knowing your boundaries and expectations from a relationship and sticking to them.

DesertEyes

Hello there mermaidgirl, and welcome to our little corner of recovery

Sort of See, the name "Adult Child of an Alcoholic" came about 30 years as a result of studies done with alcoholic families. The field of therapy has come a long way since then, and today we know that any kind of "toxic environment" will do damage to a child. It really should be called "Adult Children of Toxic Environments"... maybe someday they will change the name.

In the meantime, to answer your question, there's some "sticky" posts at the top of this forum that can help you understand this gentleman you speak of. If you just replace "Alcoholic" with "Toxic environment" then it will all make better sense. The childhood you describe was clearly toxic, and the behavior you describe fits us "Adult kids" quite well.

Good for you. That is awesome that you are doing that. And good for you taking care of your own safety and seeking answers about this guy. You mention you are in therapy, have you asked your therapist for his opinions?

In any case, welcome again, I hope you find here what you need to settle this issue in your mind.

Mike
Moderator, SR

mermaidgirl

Hi Desert Eyes-You have always been such a great resource for me-thank you again.

I saw my therapist today-and couldn't keep a dry eye despite myself. She said to treat myself like an infant-very raw. I was raised with a toxic mother-but no A's in my immediate family. I was raised as a codependent middle female child. My mother has had MS since I was 2. I did everything, being the middle girl of two brothers-whom I am very close with.

Back to the question...my therapist said that I have-through the last couple plus years tackled some very tough things. What I see as a normal expectation is just that. I have learned to ask for what I need. I asked. I asked for some TLC and a little reassurance prior to a medical procedure I was having this past week. Even though we are both in healthcare and I am very athletic-I'm still human. He said he wasn't good at that-and he asked if I thought he needed to work on it. I said yes. He said he had no plan of it...waking up alone in recovery-knowing the guy that I have been intimate with-just plain hurt. It's like he has been robbed of feeling. And it just hurt.

I apologize for the rambling here...it's been quite a day-and week.

Thanks for listening.

mermaidgirl.

DesertEyes

A pleasure

uh-huh, that is how us ACoA's learn to treat ourselves. That is the whole concept of the "child within".

It's not the "drug of choice" that causes harm to a child. It's the insane behavior of the parent that creates the "toxic" environment, which in turn harms the child. Feel free to consider your toxic mother equally harmful as an alcoholic mother.

Excellent, good for you

Oh now you are touching a raw spot in my own life. I've had my own share of medical procedures and I totally understand the need for TLC and reassurance.

Goodness gracious yes. Recovery is _not_ the place to be alone, I've been there many times so I completely agree with you.

uh-huh, that's a good description. That's one of the "characteristics" of having been raised in a toxic family.

So here's the standard ACoA questions for you. How are you taking care of _you_, now that you know this guy can't provide you what you need? In addition to your therapist are you going to any recovery group? Al-anon? CODA? Celebrate Recovery? What about day-to-day stuff? Buying yourself some flowers? Going to the mountains? A massage?

no worries. Ramble all you want. That's what we're here for

Mike

mermaidgirl

Desert Eyes-

Ok...Here are some things I am doing to take care of myself...although it may sound odd. My "procedure" on Tuesday was in the form of steroid injections for my spine-and I am very happy to say they worked. Will have another set in probably 2 months. I am an athlete...competitive swimmer (swam 4100M outside today with my team-spectacular); golfer, runner, etc. Any time I take to indulge in sports-is a gift back to myself.

I am reading "The Verbally Abusive Relationship"...wow, I was right about this dude.

I have my moments...but what I am learning is that I really like myself and that I deserve all the things I would give someone else. I deserve someone to ask me how I am having gone under conscious sedation and being scared out of my mind (despite the fact I work in the medical field)...I deserve kindness-not scraps of kindness. I do nothing to honor myself if I take the scraps and think it is the whole prime rib.

I accepted a faculty position to teach in addition to my day job...this is such a dream come true...so I have been taking time this week to learn what the department wants me to teach more specifically. This has forced me to engage my brain-away from what this guy tried to take away from me.

Must admit...that I just wonder like others...if there is anyone out there that is willing to work on things anymore? If I'm such a "catch"...why do I keep getting these types of romantic people in my life? I guess it is progress; not perfection!

Thanks for asking-

mermaidgirl

DesertEyes

Doesn't sound odd to me My ex is a world class athlete, ranked in the top 80 world-wide, so I totally understand how physical activity can be a gift to yourself. You have a gift and a passion, not that different than my love for photography.

Sounds very healthy to me. You are taking care of _you_, not avoiding your needs or running from your fears.

Sounds like wonderful recovery to me.

Yes!! excellent.

wooo hooo you're on a roll !!!

* lol * The great conundrum of all alanoids

Here's how it works for me. It's not that I _get_ these types in my life. It's that I _accept_ them. There is a flow of people thru my life, good ones, bad ones and indifferent ones. It is _me_ that engages the bad ones and takes an interest in them. It is me that rushes into a relationship before I have had time to examine the "flags" to see what color they are. And then, when I see "red flags", I have some convenient rationalization ... "it's not really _that_ red, it's more like a dark shade of pink"

Yup. Same here. Each time I do better. I back slide now and then but the overall route is better and better.

Me thinks you're doing really good. You got rid of this one _before_ you got married, didn't you? Me? I think I'm going to wait a few months before I even _think_ of dating. Spend that time taking care of my needs and settling into my new town. I've got a bunch of pictures I need to hang on my walls, and a couple museums I want to go to.

I think if we both keep doing what we're doing we'll "catch" us a good one next time. In the meantime, keep on tossing questions out here. That's what this website is all about.

Mike

mermaidgirl

Yes, I got rid of this one! And, since he doesn't live in my city-it makes things less complicated.

It's just me and my spotted dogs now...although this guy serves on an executive board with me. When true colors in people pop up, it just amazes me sometimes. I guess that means progress on my part(?). He has no plan of working on himself even if it helps "us" to move forward. Life is too short for that...and I am too much friggin' fun! :rotfxko (woot!)

mermaidgirl.

Tangledweb

He certainly sounds like a survivor of child abuse and for some that might be a red flag. If he confided in you and no one else that means he is about to begin his recovery and to be fair that is not easy to be around. It may involve a very emotionally turbulent time before he is even ready to get therapy. It is not an easy process. Of course, many survivors make wonderful partners once they start to heal. I hope he continues on his journey and that you find someone that will make you happy

Tangledweb

Read a bit more of the thread that I must have missed and you need to put yourself first always and be happy and listen to your instinct about red flags.