Dee74

Continues from here
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ct-oxy-21.html

D

FT

Regarding: "lurking...recently clean and have little support"

Hi guys, here we are on part 3 of this thread!

Hello NVR:

I am so glad you are here.

When I quit oxys almost 7 months ago after a 2 year battle to get off oxycodone, my hugest fear was how I was ever going to be able to get up and go in the morning without my morning dose.

I truly thought that if I could only hang on to JUST THAT ONE DOSE, I could quit oxys and be done with it. No problem.

Of course, that really wasn't possible, after I tried over and over last year to taper down to the one dose. I actually got there a couple of times, then as soon as I got my new prescription I would "celebrate" -- just for one day mind you -- and promised myself I would stick to one dose a day.

All doing that did was get my dose higher and higher over time, because oxycodone is just not sustainable at a low dose. Not for addicts anyway. That has everything to do with tolerance, then dependence, then addiction, and then toxicity. That's the usual pattern of oxy addiction, anyway.

You feel like crap now, but it will pass. Try to read some of the earlier posts on the thread, and you will see lots of stories of withdrawal and what to expect.

The pill counting for me wasn't just in my nightmares -- it was a reality for me before I quit. I was consumed with pill counting before I stopped. It's no wonder it can turn into a recurring nightmare.

Now, if I have that dream, I wake up totally relieved that I am not reaching for my pills. It is a sense of newfound freedom that you will have, too, before long.

Congratulations on taking on this beast. It is a nasty one, and best out of your life.

Glad to see you here posting!

FT

BeenDown2Times

FT

I've heard you mention the tolerance-dependence-addiction-toxicity cycle a few times. Can you educate us on that a bit? I've read about the stages of alcoholism but don't know as much about the stages of opiate addiction and am interested to learn.

Xoxo

Lynet

The "pill counting" sounds familiar. Thanks again for your support.

NVRAGAIN3PCT

Can't sleep - can't stop the panic... So scared to not have them. And yet ... Yes! Finally I am off that crazy train - counting every day, Ending up short every two weeks, chasing that first rush and it never came back no matter how much I used. I am happy to be of that insane train because they no lOnger worked and I would mix my oxy/soma/Xanax cocktail to deal with the emotional and physical pain.

Free of countless hours in nasty pain clinics, borrowing, selling, trading - ALL OVER!!

YET THE PANIC WON'T STOP!!!

I'm 'free' but it's so fresh I flip flop between elated to leave it behind and terrified to leave them.... But I have to remember the ox stopped 'working' anyway. That cycle you described.

I'm getting some help but I need it from those OFF THEM not those who are on. I'm so tired of being tired.

TWO WEEKS CLEAN TODAY!

NEVER AGAIN - I'LL BE THAT 1%!

Thanks for the support - I'm still shaky and get waves of weeping and panic.

Thank you so much. Today I will keep moving forward.

iliveforyou

Argh, my message got erased. Damn. Anyways, NVR - Congrats on your 2 weeks, that is wonderful What have you been doing in your recovery, if you don't mind me asking? I just got done kicking a heavy painkiller addiction myself and I am just shy of 2 weeks. I can't even tell you how many times I have went thru this in the 10+ years I've been battling depression. Keep up with the great work and I look forward to hearing more from you

Hello FT, Lynet, BeenDown, and everyone else out there reading and lurking I hope everyone is doiong well!

As for me, yesterday was a real struggle with my severe anxiety and depression. My daughter was not helping it either. Even though she is very much autistic, she sometimes displays behaviors that are "typical". She was pushing my buttons and knew it and she was a smart a$$ all damn day. I hope today is a better one. Looks like it's gonna be real sunny out today, perfect day for the park perhaps!

Keep on fighting and fokking the ox y'all.

xoxo

-Jess

NVRAGAIN3PCT

ilive4u....

oh lordy....

actually, reading your posts prompted me to write. I'm a single mom who struggles with anxiety, depression. My son as autism, my daughter has health issues...despite it all they are bright, happy, intelligent and funny beautiful human beings.

You asked what I did? I got ready. I prepared myself for battle. I read everything and anything on what and how to do it at home. I had some 'help' if you can call it that from my boyfriend (who got me using - long story, though I do have numerous health issues too). And I did it. Every minute an hour. No sleep. 6 benadryl and a beer might put me out for an hour and that's it. Hot bath after hot bath. Changing tshirts...soft ones, no undies, nothing could touch my skin. It's like labor...the waves....and eventually, the good waves get longer, the bad waves get shorter and there you are. You're clean. But now I'm left with the lingering emotional and physical effects and I was NOT prepared for that and that's how I got here.

I would look at pictures of my babies and just sob. I have an ex who has gone through this cycle her entire life. And I wonder how? I can't imagine ever going through that hell again. The detox was so bad. But I want one so bad every morning.

Yet.....there is freedom. And that freedom tastes so good. I want more. Those dreams scared me to death. More dreams last night - but of being chased (nothing new) crying and begging in my sleep. More panic. Waking and wanting so so badly....(insert the f bomb there)

And I wake and every surgery hurts, every vertabrae of my back hurts, I'm back where I started. Can't pick up my kids. Can't work a full shift at the hospital. Can't do much of anything. But I can't give up. The life I ended up with was no longer life.

I had 4 abdominal surgeries in 2 years and have had 3 car accidents leaving me with inoperable back injuries. AND an addictive personality. And here we are. I never would have finished nursing school without them. But emotionally I fell in love. Where had this been all my life? It made my nasty and devastating divorce kind of melt away. Life was so nice....until it wasn't anymore. Because the oxy's don't stay that way. D*amn things just will NOT cooperate. hee hee 2 a day grew to 8 - 11 30mg blues a day. I would chew somas like tic tacs. Xanax at night and I had the perfect black out cocktail. I became a slave to it...no more working out...depression over my most recent surgery preventing me from going to school. My ex not doing his share....and I started to live for my pills and not for my art, not for anything.

Oh yeah...at first I was like woo hoo! This makes me such a patient Mom! I'm SUPER MOM! At first I was on prescription diet pills and these....(yes, I love pills of all kinds) but then I just ended up on these.

My bf and his/our entire circle is so tied up in all this. i have to kick that too.

The night I kicked our dealer friend was murdered. Talk about an eye opener.

So, my next dr's appointment is tuesday. And I don't have to go. Ever again. But it's lurking in my mind....if I go I'll scoop up those little blues and it's all over. Cause I can't give it up twice. I just need some strength. I need to be positive. I need to go for a walk if I can.

I keep looking at my children. No more 'mean mommy' days when i'm running short.

NEVER AGAIN - I'LL BE THE 1%

Thank you to everyone for the kinds words and support. I found a group to work with that is my brother's pastor's home. I'm an agnostic but I need more help than I have here. What else can I do?

STILL 2 WEEKS TODAY! WOOT!

NVRAGAIN3PCT

Iliv4u - I don't think I actually answered your question -

What am I doing? I'm living. I'm telling myself what normal people do. They get up and eat and have coffee instead of pills. i do what I can. I sit. I watch TV. I cry. I tell myself just today. just get through today. I hold on. I call and text and get on the net until I have some help. Some word of encouragement.

I look at my babies and force myself to remember my son asking me why was I being the "mean mommy" those days I was running short on hanging on while waiting to go to the dr.

I look at me and tell me I'm worth it. I'm reaching out for more help because I need it.

I got to bed early. I have lowered my expectations of what a perfect mom and perfect life is like. This is us. Here is today. And today we are good enough. We are a family and I'm clean. The greatest thing i can give my babies. And myself. I AM WORTH IT.

YOU ARE TOO.

BLESSINGS!!!!

NEVER AGAIN - I'LL BE THE 1%

2 weeks today!

rinky

well i see they've started a new thread, I can't remember whats the last thing I said was. It's good to see you still posting and doing well Jess, I see there are some new people here too. Welcome. I'm doing well even though I'm wondering if I should ask to increase my dose next week. I still struggle with the restless legs at night and bone pain in the am when my medication is wearing off and on the other hand I think I would just be digging a deeper hole. They say they want the dose to be high enough that you don't even think of using oxys. I think about it when im having those problems but I found out last week that they have no effect on it. that is a good thing or I would surely get into trouble. That is when I get so frustrated with myself. I know where that leads and that I would even entertain the idea makes me angry at myself. I know that ft is going to say its my addicted brain and she's right. How is everyone else doing? ttyl

iliveforyou

NVRA - Wow!!! It seems as though we have a LOT in common with each other. Raising a child is hard but raising a special needs child is even harder. It presents even more challenges!

I am so glad that I inspired you to post and 2 weeks is wonderful!! I am pushing on having 2 weeks myself, sometimes I lose count lol. Things for me have gotten much better but I am still living with my chronic pain conditions. Having medical issues, particularly have pain issues, is so damn hard. I have to push myself thru each day but I am making it. Looking into my daughter's eyes, I realize that not only does she deserve a clean, sober "happy" mommy, I do too! That is the hardest thing for me, having some respect for myself, enough that I can resist pills. I have struggled for over 10 years with addiction but I refuse to give up this uphill battle. I also am working on coming to accept the fact that by 40 (if I am lucky), I will be unable to walk without a walker/cane and even after that I am looking at a much scarier situation ;(

Struggling with mental illness as well only further complicates an already tough fight.

Thank you for sharing your story with me - stay strong - you are worth it and your children are certainly worth it as well.

As far as being supermom, part of that has thankfully come back. I resume homeschooling Moira at the end of August. I am also responsible for all household work, paying bills, cooking and handwashing laundry. It's exhausting and it is real terrifying doing all of this without my "magic pills". My "addict brain" easily forgets the torment that came with them after the honeymoon period...

Sounds like you have a plan, have you ever been to an NA meeting? I don't know if it's possible for you, having children. I've been to many meetings and here in Chicago they have agnostic/athiest meetings. Those are the only ones I would consider trying again as I am an atheist. I tend to disagree with the whole higher power thing and I also refuse to call a cup or table a higher power, doesn't make sense to me....like at all lol. But they are not for everyone.

Hey, if you ever need someone to talk to - I can relate to what you have said A LOT, you can PM anything, I am on everyday or you can even call me Just let me know and I can PM you my number and if you want you can block your number if you are worried for any reason

Take care
xo
Jess

iliveforyou

Rinky,
If you are still having those thoughts/urges/cravings and are still experiencing physical issues, I think it IS worth talking with your dr. about that and see what they can do for you. You shouldn't have to suffer on a maintence program, imo.

It's good to hear from you ((()))

Take good care of yourself, there are people here who truly care about you!!

xo
-Jess

NVRAGAIN3PCT

ILIVE4U....

omg our lives are so similar....I'm just crying. I'll PM you. I can't tell you how much it means to me to find someone similar WHO UNDERSTANDS.... because no one here does.

I'm functioning but so %$^* exhausted....I WANT MY MAGIC PILLS but they aren't magic anymore and never will be again. jfc that is so hard. Chasing that monkey just ain't worth it.

I'll find some athiest/agnostic meetings because the religious bs (do NOT mean to offend) I cannot handle.

thank you so much for your post. so much. i have tears.

taking a nap will pm you later.

thank you again

NEVER AGAIN - I'LL BE THE 1%

2 WEEKS TODAY!

FT

The tolerance-dependence-addiction-toxicity cycle is just a term that gets thrown around to describe the chronological order in which addiction develops. There are some good articles on line, but watch out for people saying things without valid references to actual medical studies and who are only giving opinions.

When I use those terms here, I should probably reference the medical articles to back them up.

My definitions come from this resource, among others:

Donna G. Benedict, MSN, NP, "Walking the Tightrope: Chronic Pain and Substance Abuse" Journal for Nurse Practitioners. 2008;4(8):604-609. © 2008 Elsevier Science, Inc.

This is an article designed to assist medical providers who prescribe opiates to identify who might be prone to addiction. It uses these definitions:

Tolerance refers to the body's ability to adapt to the continual presence of opiate receptor agonists, producing a gradual need to increase the dose to obtain the same amount of pain relief. In chronic pain, this is usually a slow process, and requests for frequent dose escalations are usually considered a red flag. Tolerance to side effects of opiates usually develops much sooner than tolerance to the pain-relieving effects. (In other words, you get addicted to the oxys before the pain effects are gone)

Physical dependence is another compensatory adaptation of the body to the long-term presence of opiate receptor agonists. When the opiates are stopped suddenly, withdrawal symptoms will occur. This is not a sign of psychic dependence, but is to be expected anytime there is an abrupt stop of a substantial dose of opiate therapy. It can be avoided by a gradual down-titration of the dosage before stopping. (according to the article, but many self-medicating addicts fail at doing this)

Addiction refers to compulsive use of a substance for psychic effects and to satisfy a craving for the drug. Behavior includes continuing to use the drug in spite of harm to the user, such as legal problems, damage to relationships, or loss of job. The compulsive need to get high from the substance leads to rapid escalation of the dose, as contrasted to the usual slow need for periodic increases due to tolerance. Addiction is considered to be a chronic, neurobiologic disease, with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations

The article warns providers:

"If you prescribe opiates, it is likely that at least a few of your patients are overusing, selling, or combining their medications with illicit substances. Studies show a rate of about 32%." (wow)

This article does not go on to discuss the toxicity that occurs that precedes overdose and death in some patients, probably because the provider is being taught to cut off the addict before they can contribute to the toxicity.

Toxicity simply means that the patient has exceeded the body's ability to detoxify the drug or alcohol, so the toxins are free to go "other places" and do damage to the body. That's why alcoholics develop cirrhosis of the liver, a virtual destruction of the organ. Where the toxicity occurs varies depending on which organ is the detoxifier. Some drugs are detoxified in the kidneys, like some of the NSAID's. In overdoses, the toxicity affects the brain, particularly the breathing centers when opiates are used to toxic levels, and especially if used with benzos.

So that's a little information about the addiction cycle. I'm happy to share the article with anyone who wants it. You can look it up online, but it may be blocked to non-medical users, I'm not sure.

FT

FT

Hi Rinky girl! Yes, you know me well!

Remember that EVERYBODY has aches and pains and doesn't feel good all the time. It's a natural part of being a human being. Remember that BEFORE opiates, you used to tolerate the daily grind without reaching for a drug.

Try to make sure when requesting a higher dose that it isn't the psychological effect, or "rush", that you are seeking. If it is, remember that it is only temporary, and that the methadone clinic considers the "rush" an adverse effect of the drug, not a desirable one. In other words, it is not a good reason to up the dose. I realize that you may have some true discomforts going on. Just make sure it isn't your "addict brain" trying to convince you to achieve another "altered state".

Rinky, you are doing SO WELL I can't believe it. I am so proud of the large strides you have made in your recovery. We carry our "addict brain" around FOR LIFE. It isn't going anywhere, and it is just WAITING for you to falter. Don't let it do that to you.

FT

FT

Hey ILFY and NVR:

GREAT to have kindred spirits here! That is what this forum is FOR!

You both sound like you are fighting the GOOD FIGHT. You are both such wonderful mothers to recognize your issues and fight them head on.

Keep up the good work!

FT

FT

Don't worry about the dreams and nightmares. They are a part of your progress, and you will get better sleep soon.

Be sure to keep posting so we know how you are doing!

FT

FT

TO EVERYONE ELSE READING, LURKING, POSTING OR NOT:

Keep on FOKING THE FOKING OX!

ALL of you can do this. You are not alone in your struggles. I love seeing this thread alive, and it takes ALL of you coming here to work together.

FT

iliveforyou

NVRA - Please, please PM me I am always around! I am one of the most laid back, non judgemental, accepting people you will come across! I look forward to hearing from you

-Jess

hopeful8523

this gives me hope..

NVRAGAIN3PCT

Here comes a wave...waves of tears, regret, the mess left to be cleaned up....missing it, not missing it, the panic, the fear the FEAR of life without them the fear of life with them and yet....relief but

I'll just let it roll...the tears can't last that long. The pass more and more quickly....this time of day is hard. I lose my energy...and my babies need so much.

I will stay strong. STRONG. I have no choice.