miamifella

I was looking for a meeting today. I am no longer even trying 12-step groups since they did me now good even after years and years. I partly think I wanted to go, because of how depressed meeting make me. Either I sit and cry after--or I call a dealer.

The NA meeting I went to (that I found on their website) did not exist. Probably a good thing, since I surely would be using by now if I did go to one.

I just wish it was possible to talk about where I am right now, honestly. A meeting is not the place for that, but I almost wonder if it would be worth it to start an alternate group where you could talk about cravings and anger and fear and all that stuff that you cannot talk about in 12-step or SmartRecovery without getting a tongue lashing. It does not help me to hear how my negative feelings are a sign of my badness. (Probably because I think negative feelings are part of the human condition and are often a healthy response to bad situations.)

Maybe it is part of the nature of groups to regulate themselves by getting judgemental. Maybe any group by its nature will work to inhibit honest sharing.

Maybe I am just pessimistic today.

suki44883

Have you considered finding an addictions counselor? Several people here have used them and swear by them. One-on-one counseling can be a great help. Also, when you were doing AA meetings, were you just going to meetings or did you have a sponsor and work the steps?

larrylive

Hey Miami,

i can relate to what your saying. i know how it feels to think no one else feels the way we do. but I can asure you you are not alone. I invite you to share that which causes you such feelings of loneliness. Please feel free to get in touch any time.

Larry

miamifella

I am in therapy so I have one person I can be open with.

But that is one hour out of the week. Saturday was very hard and I did not feel comfortable talking to my friends about this.

This online stuff is helpful, but it would be great to actually get to know other addicts in real life without having to censor what I say.

Sugah

miamifella, did you have a sponsor when you were going to NA?

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Francismcan

Miami Fella,
Did you get a sponsor that guided you through the twelve steps?
Did you read the literature?

Insanity is joining a 12 step group and not walking the 12 steps.

miamifella

I read the literature, but it seemed to have very little relationship to what I encountered in meetings. I did have a sponsor--more than one. I never could honestly say that I did step 3, so we never got to do step work together.

After about 8 years, I stopped going. I later encountered a article that talked about how for some people, support groups can have a negative effect--making them feel more isolated and hopeless. That was certainly the case with me. For a long time I told myself that going to meetings and feeling bad was like medicine that would ultimately help me. But it did not. I was relapsing every few months.

Since stopping I have had greater success. For me recovery is about honesty, self-examination, and service to something that connects you to something larger than yourself. None of which I found in any of the 12 step groups I attended, in which I had to conceal any negative feelings or lingering cravings.

The weird thing is when I look at the principles of my recovery (honesty, self-examination, service, connection), they are precisely what the literature describes. I get support for these principles in therapy. And in the time since I left 12-step programs I have not had trouble like I had on Saturday. (I think it must be two years or so since I left.)

I think that I can criticize myself more brutally than anyone can--and I do. I think for me, I need more positive reinforcement. And though this seems to be opposite of that, I need to be able to discuss my failings and fears as much as my successes. Whenever I expressed any doubt or fear or said that I sometimes wanted to use, I was told this was inappropriate talk for meetings.

I am glad that I could not find a meeting. I used to go in that state of mind and call a dealer as soon as I left. I know it helps most people, but I know that for me most of my relapses happened as I left meetings and called my dealer on the way to my car.

I do not think that this is anything against 12-step programs. Every pot has a lid, but not every lid fits every pot. They really do work for many many people. In my work, I often am approached by addicts looking for help. (I teach and am out as a recovering addict.) I always send them first to 12-step meetings, since that seems to work best for most people.

Francismcan

You reported that you judge yourself more harshly than anyone else.

You also reported that the people at the meetings were regulating themselves by way of Maybe it is part of the nature of groups to regulate themselves by getting judgemental. Maybe any group by its nature will work to inhibit honest sharing.

I never could honestly say that I did step 3, so we never got to do step work together.

Find a different and better meeting.
Start a new meeting. Like you suggested.
Remember, the only thing it takes to start a new AA or NA meeting is a resentment and a coffee pot.

miamifella

Francisman-- I went to a variety of meetings in different towns during the years. It just was not the program that worked for me.

Looking at the principles of my recovery, they are the ones that the 12-steps are supposed to lead you too. So maybe its principles before programs?

I had a rough weekend, but thankfully I got through it. This was really the first rough time I had since leaving 12-steps. ( During those years, I had a rough weekend three times a week.)

I would be interested in being in or starting some sort of group--but not a 12-step one since it was so counterproductive to me. I can recommend it to others, but I think really entering into it myself would lead me back to active addiction. No one program works for everyone anymore that any one religion or one political party can work for everyone.

fs101

Hey miami,

Please don't feel alone, you are amoung many who just don't fit into the 12-step model. Despite what some believe it is not true that "you just didn't work hard enough" that is BS... I am calling it right here.

Every meeting is different so it is always possible to find one that may be better for you, but if you have tried and find them to be a trigger, there are many alternatives out there (that aren't based on 1930's science).

I despise many things about AA, but I also understand that for some it works well, and as this is a recovery forum I think any form of recovery should be promoted and considered and used to help people.

There are quite a few others out there like SMART and such, I would expect there are many options in Miami. Take a look and if you want some websites to start searching, send me a PM.

You ARE NOT alone in not fitting into the AA/NA mold, and you are not broken or not tyring hard enough because of it, everyone is different and there are many paths to recovery. I would suggest you try another one (I think a few were suggested here already).

BTW did I mention for you to NOT feel bad about this, and to stay positive and continue to try to beat this addiction... that (IMHO) is more important than any dogma I have ever heard!

dreamscape

cravings and anger and fear ??????????? They get talked about all the time at NA. There is no rule against it.

miamifella

Dreamscape--In every meeting I have been to talking about cravings and fear are called living in the problem, not living in the solution. You can talk about them if you tell how you got out of them.

FS101-- A few years back I did look into SmartRecovery, but there was no meeting down here. Also, their online site really turned me off. People were so dogmatic -- more than the worst 12-step meetings.

It may be me that is the issue. I did not hang around addicts when I was using, so I may be missing some social cues, and my experience was so different than nearly everyone I heard speak at meetings.

I am usually pretty good with groups, but I never worked my way in with any 12-step group. It was like going into a bar when you are nondrinker. (I was always a teetotaler so I know what this is like.) Everyone seems to be doing something that you cannot be part of. Unless you already have a friend there, it is pretty intolerable.

miamifella

Its funny, but one of the responses here made me look back and see what was a turning point for me. I had a sponsor willing to work the steps with me when I got to the fourth step.

I saw him at a meeting every week. I really wanted to work the steps, so I told him that I think I did step one. Then, that I did step two. But step three I could not get. I tried. But I just was not there.

I thought of just telling him that I did the third step, so that we could work together on step four. But when it came down to it, I could not lie. I put my integrity first and told the truth that I just did not think I got it.

It was hard then because I was very poor. I could not afford a phone and could not afford to go out to eat. I tried once going out with him and some friends but sitting there watching them eat while I was hungry was too much for me. So it could not have been easy trying to build a relationship with someone who could not do any of the usual things. We mostly saw each other at meetings and I left a message on his voice mail every day from the pay phone down the street.

I also did not know much about these programs, because I really had no money for literature etc. (The poverty really had the benefit of making drug use beyond my financial reach. Could I have kept clean those first two years if I had money for drugs?) Eventually I did and was shocked by the distance between the craziness I met in the rooms and the warm rationality of the Big Book and Basic Text. I wonder if things might have been different if I had met the 12-step programs through the literature first, rather than through the chaos and repression I found in the rooms.

But deciding not to lie about the third step was a turning point for me, I think. I could have become part of the group. I would have been able to work steps four through twelve. But I would have been a liar.

CrackQuack

The meetings were similar for me. Except that we had open share time to voice desires, cravings, etc. However, too many people just lived in those rooms and too many people were in and out and using and the craziness was more than I could handle. I stopped using February 3rd, 2009 and stopped going to meetings regularly in March 2009. I still go to one once in a while when I feel the need to go but, for the most part, I moved on with my life and stayed busy and stayed clean. I don't necessarily think that going to a 12 step program and not working the steps is the definition of insanity as I believe the definition is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I was working the steps, going to meetings, going to the same job and doing all the same stuff and still smoking crack. I'd celebrate 2-3 weeks going without using and then beat myself up when I used. Doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results. Wasn't working for me. So I tried something different and got better results.
I understand about being poor. It sucked doing fellowship with other meeting goers, ones that I wanted to pattern myself with, who had money and could get food or buy bowling games and stuff when we went. I couldn't and I felt miserable because of it. I enjoyed their company, but I was jealous that I spent everything I had on crack and had nothing to show for it. I still am rebuilding the losses and I still get frustrated with not being able to even buy myself decent clothing that fits. Well, until I got my tax refund this year. I am now the proud owner of a pair of shoes without holes and 5 pairs of jeans plus six new, girly, shirts! I also got some make-up and died my hair a darker red. I still have 2,000.00 set aside for the shed I want to put my bird toy business in and all that stuff made me feel better than any amount of crack ever could. I told my boyfriend, last night, I was going to use the 2 grand to cover gas until I got a good job with my degree, as I am used to living off of less than 5 grand a year, but he said to get my shed and he and Mom would help with the gas and whatever else I need (I am on my own with cigs though, LOL).
Actually, another thing that made me feel better was making more than 5 grand last year. I made 8300! Wow! I know it's not much as I could make that in less than 2 months at GM when I worked there, but wow.. ALL on my own and without the use of drugs.
If you haven't tried already, try giving yourself some kudos each day you don't use drugs. Doesn't matter WHY you didn't use (lack of money, didn't want to, no access, etc, you know the drill), just be good to yourself when you don't use. Even without money, we can find things to treat ourselves when we do good. I humbled myself and asked Mom to take me to lunch and spend time with me or I would go to the park and take pictures of the ducks and wildlife or pick wildflowers (don't care if it's illegal, hell I did drugs! Wildflower picking is not an issue, LOL), or go to my best friend's house and ask him if I could pick some tulips and daffodils. Even went to Mom's and picked her lilacs, put a bunch in a vase and gave a couple sprigs to my birds (as long as the bushes aren't sprayed with chemicals, lilacs are a wonderful treat for parrots). I also would beg my boyfriend to take me to car shows or cruise in's. Just silly things that didn't cost me much money or were free (I can walk to Mom's and the park).
What is your job situation like? Do you have one? Able to get one? Maybe volunteer. Some places will accept volunteers regardless of your background (criminal record, in deep debt, etc). I loved volunteering at the local animal shelter. I didn't get to do it long as a paying job and school came up, but that is something else to consider. You can get financial aid and go to school. Check that out.
And do an online search for those sober coaches. Maybe one would be willing to come to your aid if they are close enough? Don't know if they charge. I watched Relapse for the first time and I WANT to be a sober coach. I am going to do some research on that. Just hearing that woman say "I just want to make a difference in one person's life" is exactly what I've been saying since I got clean. I know that my CJ degree will help me get there, I just need to find out where THERE is. LOL.
I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers Miamifella. :ghug3

fs101

Hey Miami,
I think someone talked about a personal addiction specialist, kind of a one on one thing, or maybe even a hotline (they are free) where you can talk to someone who is a professional and get some stuff out that way in a truly anon' way.

You seem to have a good handle on what won't work for you, which shows that you are trying as many things as you can, that's pretty cool.

I hope you can find some things that will help you, like maybe even here at SR.

FS

miamifella

I am in therapy with an addiction specialist. The problem now is I am completely swamped. I teach and I work 16 hours a day---and in the other 8 I am supposed to to the things I need to do for tenure. Budget cuts mean I have to shoulder more and more administrative work which is why I think I freaked on Saturday. It was the first weekend I had off in over two months.

Service to my students and my field really did more for me than the 12 steps. I remember back when I was in rehab saying that I didn't think it was possible to stay clean until you found something that was more important than drugs. I still think that is true. My time in 12-step programs kept the drugs more important. But I think I am part of something more satisfying than drugs now.

However, I am feeling a pull now to talk about my addiction. I did not for the first two years after walking out of 12-step programs. But it is not something I feel right talking about to friends. I do not know anyone else socially in recovery, so it is a black hole. I can tell people about my experiences as an addict and in recovery. And I am open about it all. But they cannot share back. I might as well be talking about skydiving to nuns.

fs101

I like this idea, if sharing here is good go for it. I also like the idea that you can find something more important than your addiction, its a good message.

There is a part of me that understands I will need to take a step back all my life if I am offered opiates by Rx again, but I don't think that I need to live my life obsessing over it either. Putting it behind me and moving on is a good thing (although I may miss coming here when I reach that point)

Thanks for sharing with us.

FS