Quitting opiates and valium
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Quitting opiates and valium
Hello,
I have been taking a large amount of opiates (360mg Oxycontin, or 100mcg Fentanyl patch, not at the same time) for about eight months now. For about a year I have been taking 10mg valium (the first four months were a different benzo at an equivilant dose). I took a week off of work and did a rapid taper of the opiates (I had been cutting down slowly with my dr's help, but finished off so rapidly that I couldn't move for a week). I then stopped the Valium. I have been off the opiates for 6 days, and this is day 3 off of the valium. The opiate WD is almost gone, and I've started feeling soooo much better...and then I read about the benzo WD. Extremely scary stuff. I just went from 10mg a night to nothing, and I know at 3 days off the valium that WDs haven't really started yet, but I do feel okay. I am also taking clonidine .1 mgs twice a day. I had stopped the clonidine at the same time as the valium, but yesterday I thought my heart was going to beat out of my chest. Scared the heck outta me, so I am taking the clonidine again. I have a call out to my doc's office about that and the potential danger of benzo WD, but I know my doc...he already said he doesn't want to perscribe more valium, and until I go into acute benzo WD (if I do) then he will stick to his guns. I am feeling so much better at this point, but I am just scared that the worst is yet to come. Getting off the opiates was killer, and I don't want to go through benzo WDs now too, especially since I read they can actually be dangerous. A couple years ago I was in a three day rapid detox center after using opiates and way more benzos that I am now, and I didn't have any crazy symptoms when they cut off my benzos, so I am wondering if I will this time around after taking a much smaller dose. Any ideas or words of wisdom? Thanks in advance!
I have been taking a large amount of opiates (360mg Oxycontin, or 100mcg Fentanyl patch, not at the same time) for about eight months now. For about a year I have been taking 10mg valium (the first four months were a different benzo at an equivilant dose). I took a week off of work and did a rapid taper of the opiates (I had been cutting down slowly with my dr's help, but finished off so rapidly that I couldn't move for a week). I then stopped the Valium. I have been off the opiates for 6 days, and this is day 3 off of the valium. The opiate WD is almost gone, and I've started feeling soooo much better...and then I read about the benzo WD. Extremely scary stuff. I just went from 10mg a night to nothing, and I know at 3 days off the valium that WDs haven't really started yet, but I do feel okay. I am also taking clonidine .1 mgs twice a day. I had stopped the clonidine at the same time as the valium, but yesterday I thought my heart was going to beat out of my chest. Scared the heck outta me, so I am taking the clonidine again. I have a call out to my doc's office about that and the potential danger of benzo WD, but I know my doc...he already said he doesn't want to perscribe more valium, and until I go into acute benzo WD (if I do) then he will stick to his guns. I am feeling so much better at this point, but I am just scared that the worst is yet to come. Getting off the opiates was killer, and I don't want to go through benzo WDs now too, especially since I read they can actually be dangerous. A couple years ago I was in a three day rapid detox center after using opiates and way more benzos that I am now, and I didn't have any crazy symptoms when they cut off my benzos, so I am wondering if I will this time around after taking a much smaller dose. Any ideas or words of wisdom? Thanks in advance!
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: kansas
Posts: 61
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha04.htm
explained pretty well
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha02.htm
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha04.htm
explained pretty well
Last edited by Francismcan; 04-21-2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: secret
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
welcome.
10 mg of valium isnt a whole lot, .. try the 230mg I was on!! (no don't)
you're 3 days into withdrawal , and you still feel ok?
Take note, some of those benzo sites have people on them who are not mentally stable, thus causing fear in people who read their posts.
For now,I'd stay away from reading them if I were you.
I can;t remember the half life of valium, but i'd say that you should have been feeling nasty by now if you're going to.
The nastiness might be swirled in with your opiate withdrawal and hard to distinguish.
probably best to -breathe in breathe out- and follow your doctors orders.
again , welcome!
10 mg of valium isnt a whole lot, .. try the 230mg I was on!! (no don't)
you're 3 days into withdrawal , and you still feel ok?
Take note, some of those benzo sites have people on them who are not mentally stable, thus causing fear in people who read their posts.
For now,I'd stay away from reading them if I were you.
I can;t remember the half life of valium, but i'd say that you should have been feeling nasty by now if you're going to.
The nastiness might be swirled in with your opiate withdrawal and hard to distinguish.
probably best to -breathe in breathe out- and follow your doctors orders.
again , welcome!
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Welcome to SR.....
There are so many variables to be considered it's always
best to keep your doctor aware of whats happening.
Reading about how some people do withdrawals is not
always what you need to do for your well being.
Good to know you are heading in the correct direction
There are so many variables to be considered it's always
best to keep your doctor aware of whats happening.
Reading about how some people do withdrawals is not
always what you need to do for your well being.
Good to know you are heading in the correct direction
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks!
Thank you both so much for responding. You're right, I might not notice the benzo WD symptoms as much since they are mixed in with symptoms of opiate WD. I think Valiums half life is between 24-200 hours, or at least in that range. However, like you said, I would expect to start feeling worse, not better. I still have a rapid heartbeat, I shake sometimes, sweats (sometimes) and insomnia, but it is all better than it was while I did my rapid opiate taper. The faster than normal heartbeat does scare me tho, but I know that's also a symptom of opiate WD. Kind of hard to tell what is from one WD and what is from the other. I am going to NA every day, and I love it. I went before, but didn't really dedicate myself to the program, which I am doing now. If my doc actually calls me back, he is going to either tell me that 10mgs of Valium is nothing to worry about, or he will try and taper me over the course of a week, maybe two. He will not subscribe to a long term tapering plan. I know my doc. Honestly, I don't even want to taper, but I also don't want to have a seizure. I used up all my sick time at work during the opiate WDs, so I can't take time off even. I can handle this, if it doesn't get horribly worse. I truly don't know what to do.
EDIT: Actually, thank you all three! Carol got a response in a minute before I was done typing. And I do appreciate it, talking / typing about it with others does help a lot.
EDIT: Actually, thank you all three! Carol got a response in a minute before I was done typing. And I do appreciate it, talking / typing about it with others does help a lot.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 775
I am from the camp of sometimes the Internet gives you too much info. I detoxed without much knowledge the first time without too much craziness. Then I relapsed and I read a lot of crap on the Internet and it scared me. Sometimes ignorance is bliss
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Since you mentioned NA....I found beginning my AA Steps
was the key for lasting joy filled recovery....
With that in mind...I hope you will quicly get into Step work.
Years ago...I stopped Balium woth out problem ..heck it never occurred
to me to do anything but quit.
Last June..my surgeon gave me 1 10 mg before each of the Cyber 5 Knife surgeries.
Again....no WD symptoms.
was the key for lasting joy filled recovery....
With that in mind...I hope you will quicly get into Step work.
Years ago...I stopped Balium woth out problem ..heck it never occurred
to me to do anything but quit.
Last June..my surgeon gave me 1 10 mg before each of the Cyber 5 Knife surgeries.
Again....no WD symptoms.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
tbeit, the internet can indeed be a curse and a blessing. I try and use it to verify information and stay safe, but scare myself half to death in the process!
CarolD, I will do that as soon as I can. I have met some good people at the meetings I have been to so far, and once I find a sponsor I will start step work immediately. It truly is therapeutic to sit in a room and listen to people who suffer from the same disease I do. I am an only child (albeit with parents, wife, and kids) but I consider NA my family. It really is awesome. The whole time I was lying in bed detoxing, all I wanted to do was get healthy enough to get to a meeting. Plus, this is the only time I have EVER quit on my own, instead of a situation with my family or the police forcing my sobriety. I have a great outlook on life right now, and if I can just get over this fear of benzo WD, I know I will be okay. I'm just scared at the moment. I don't want another drug to enter my body, but I had a seizure once from taking (WAY) too much tramadol at once, and I am in no hurry to have it happen again.
CarolD, I will do that as soon as I can. I have met some good people at the meetings I have been to so far, and once I find a sponsor I will start step work immediately. It truly is therapeutic to sit in a room and listen to people who suffer from the same disease I do. I am an only child (albeit with parents, wife, and kids) but I consider NA my family. It really is awesome. The whole time I was lying in bed detoxing, all I wanted to do was get healthy enough to get to a meeting. Plus, this is the only time I have EVER quit on my own, instead of a situation with my family or the police forcing my sobriety. I have a great outlook on life right now, and if I can just get over this fear of benzo WD, I know I will be okay. I'm just scared at the moment. I don't want another drug to enter my body, but I had a seizure once from taking (WAY) too much tramadol at once, and I am in no hurry to have it happen again.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
So I just got off the phone with my doc. He said that 3 days out from taking Valium, if I was going to have a seizure I would have had one by now. He said I don't need any kind of taper, even with the length of time that I was taking benzos. I brought up the rapid heartbeat, and he said it wasn't anything to worry about. He said take the Clonidine for another week, and then I can stop that too. I pointed out the amount of time that I had been taking the benzos (at a fairly low dose), but he was not worried, As an aside, this is just the advice I received from my doc for my current situation. I am not wanting anyone else to read my post and think that because my doc said it was okay for me, that they should do it too.
Well, I sure as heck hope that he is right. My faith in my doc has been badly shaken by the fact that he knew I was an addict, he knew the last time I was taking a large amount of opiates I ended up with half the police force at my door because I was hallucinating so bad I thought people were coming to kill me (I was also taking amphetamines at the time, which meant I had probably been up for a few days)...and despite all this, he still prescribed me benzos, dilaudid, fentanyl, oxy, etc. I realize that as an addict I can manipulate with the best of them, but really...what doc knowing my history like that would give me schedule two opiates in big doses???
Anyhow, I guess all I can do is trust him and pray at this point (literally). I'll keep going to NA, and hopefully the worst is past. I am just worried, cause he thinks valium is rapidly eliminated from the body once you stop, and I know that isn't true. I know is has a LONG half life. But, what else can I do really?
Well, I sure as heck hope that he is right. My faith in my doc has been badly shaken by the fact that he knew I was an addict, he knew the last time I was taking a large amount of opiates I ended up with half the police force at my door because I was hallucinating so bad I thought people were coming to kill me (I was also taking amphetamines at the time, which meant I had probably been up for a few days)...and despite all this, he still prescribed me benzos, dilaudid, fentanyl, oxy, etc. I realize that as an addict I can manipulate with the best of them, but really...what doc knowing my history like that would give me schedule two opiates in big doses???
Anyhow, I guess all I can do is trust him and pray at this point (literally). I'll keep going to NA, and hopefully the worst is past. I am just worried, cause he thinks valium is rapidly eliminated from the body once you stop, and I know that isn't true. I know is has a LONG half life. But, what else can I do really?
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
withdrawal from benzos causes anxiety, also withdrawal from opiates do the same.
It's my thought that this might be causing you to over think and second guess.
I've withdrawn from benzo many many times and know full well the anxiety that surronds it.
Tell me, how are you sleeping? How much sleep did you get last night?
It's my thought that this might be causing you to over think and second guess.
I've withdrawn from benzo many many times and know full well the anxiety that surronds it.
Tell me, how are you sleeping? How much sleep did you get last night?
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
I think you are doing everything you can. You got the medical advice you needed.
Most doctors are not trained in addiction medicine. Just yesterday in the news there was an article about how the FDA wants to START requiring docs to get trained in opiate prescribing before giving them further opportunity to prescribe them.
The argument of the AMA is that the doctors don't have "enough time" to be trained about addiction and can just prescribe this stuff. Suboxone is the only one that requires "training," which consists of an 8 hour course.
Any questions?
Most doctors are not trained in addiction medicine. Just yesterday in the news there was an article about how the FDA wants to START requiring docs to get trained in opiate prescribing before giving them further opportunity to prescribe them.
The argument of the AMA is that the doctors don't have "enough time" to be trained about addiction and can just prescribe this stuff. Suboxone is the only one that requires "training," which consists of an 8 hour course.
Any questions?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Thank you both!
Dreamscape, since you asked, I haven't slept more than four hours a night since stopping the Valium, and not much better than that since I started the tapering almost two weeks ago. Anxiety is definitely a possibility.
Failedtaper, I agree that doctors should be required to take more classes or something before being allowed to prescribe all this stuff. They need to be better equipped to identify drug seeking behavior, and more importantly, the REAL effects that these medicines cause.
Well, I am trying to accept that I have done everything that I can, and all I can do now is sit back and see what happens next. Hopefully each day is better than the one before it.
Dreamscape, since you asked, I haven't slept more than four hours a night since stopping the Valium, and not much better than that since I started the tapering almost two weeks ago. Anxiety is definitely a possibility.
Failedtaper, I agree that doctors should be required to take more classes or something before being allowed to prescribe all this stuff. They need to be better equipped to identify drug seeking behavior, and more importantly, the REAL effects that these medicines cause.
Well, I am trying to accept that I have done everything that I can, and all I can do now is sit back and see what happens next. Hopefully each day is better than the one before it.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
again, just my own thought here... but getting 4 hrs sleep right now isnt too bad. I know it sucks to you, but at least your getting some.
when i withdrawled from the whack of benzos i was on, I was sick for 6 weeks......... sometimes getting zero sleep (for a week) crying at night time with horrible stomach cramps, wishing it could just be gone.
I was in my early 40's (43-44) then, but looked like i was sixty at least.
Seemed to me that the withdrawal started at about 24 hrs - 30 hrs
I personally dont think that anyone should be on any benzo for more than a few weeks because addiction sets in and they work less and less as time goes on.
I think your a trooper! you're doing good by going to NA meetings and by continuing to post here
when i withdrawled from the whack of benzos i was on, I was sick for 6 weeks......... sometimes getting zero sleep (for a week) crying at night time with horrible stomach cramps, wishing it could just be gone.
I was in my early 40's (43-44) then, but looked like i was sixty at least.
Seemed to me that the withdrawal started at about 24 hrs - 30 hrs
I personally dont think that anyone should be on any benzo for more than a few weeks because addiction sets in and they work less and less as time goes on.
I think your a trooper! you're doing good by going to NA meetings and by continuing to post here
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: london
Posts: 52
my experience from benzo quitting
hi all i dont want to scare anyone but before i tried going from 100mg aday to nothing with no reduction,just straight cold turkey
i realise now that that is not the best way to go about it,the withdrawal symptoms didn't start to about 3 days after my last dose,i found it horrific and could not leave my bedroom for 3 weeks it was like i was in another body, it eventually passed my body recovered but my brain did not,i managed to go back to work but i was not the same person mentally although physical i was ok,
eventually i found my self slipping backwards which is crazy after the night mare i went through,i just could not seem to face social situation or work as i was in sales and need to be confident and it just was not happening,
im on a reduction program now and started taking citraloprm 20 mg a day 28 days ago,
The differance in me is like day and night,i have myself confidence back and each day im getting better,im not clear from the diazapam but feel like im in a better place to start withdrawing again,
im just not going to do it to quick because i would hate anyone to feel like i did,but im hoping life keeps getting better by the day as it seems to be at the moment.
good luck to anyone out there trying this.
im here if anyone needs some advice or help
thanks to everyone here!!
Richard
i realise now that that is not the best way to go about it,the withdrawal symptoms didn't start to about 3 days after my last dose,i found it horrific and could not leave my bedroom for 3 weeks it was like i was in another body, it eventually passed my body recovered but my brain did not,i managed to go back to work but i was not the same person mentally although physical i was ok,
eventually i found my self slipping backwards which is crazy after the night mare i went through,i just could not seem to face social situation or work as i was in sales and need to be confident and it just was not happening,
im on a reduction program now and started taking citraloprm 20 mg a day 28 days ago,
The differance in me is like day and night,i have myself confidence back and each day im getting better,im not clear from the diazapam but feel like im in a better place to start withdrawing again,
im just not going to do it to quick because i would hate anyone to feel like i did,but im hoping life keeps getting better by the day as it seems to be at the moment.
good luck to anyone out there trying this.
im here if anyone needs some advice or help
thanks to everyone here!!
Richard
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Dreamscape, I agree that four hours could be worse. I think that part of the reason that I can sleep is the Clonidine. When I stopped that for a day, I slept 2-3 hours and my heart rate and BP were through the roof, although 3-4 into WDs was probably not the best time to stop a medicine that is supposed to help with WDs (opiate WDs at least). I slept for maybe 4-5 hours last night, so it could be worse. I do feel some anxiety about going to work and having to function all day, and I still have a rapid heartbeat and sweats...man the sweats blow. I'm freezing all the time, and yet my back and tummy get all sweaty even though I'm cold...then my shirt gets soaked, which makes me even colder! Oh well, could be worse (and it was). I guess considering the WD symptoms I COULD be having and was having, I should be grateful for where I am. I went to another meeting this morning. Honestly, I feel like I could be getting more sleep at night, but I have to wake up so freakin early to go to the meetings. Plus, I stopped my morning energy drinks, since caffiene seemed to make me feel worse. I love and need the meetings though, so I guess it's a sacrifice I'll just have to make. I still feel some anticipation about what my doc said. He also told me that Valium is eliminated fairly rapidly from the body when you stop it, and I am fairly certain that is inaccurate. Oh well, I'll just try not to think about it. Anyway, I appreciate the support from everyone, and please know that every response I read really does make me feel better and more at home. Thanks!
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
compared with fast asting benzos valium does not leave the body quickly, that is why it is commonly used to wean people off other benzos (there is little if any between dose withdrawal with valium).
cold sweats are probably a symtom of opiate withdrawal, either that or you just dreamed about being married to my ex wife. lol
Just think, every moment you stay clean is another moment that your brain is closer to getting back to normal. The neurons needs to re-learn how to fire without dope in your blood stream.
Your brain is working at a very quick rate whether your sleeping or not getting back to normal (i was told this about myself in benzo withdrawal)
Good on you for not drinking caffine, my doctor at the time said caffine make the withdrawal worse.
i was given Clonidine for opiate withdrawl and it worked very well.
you will make out just fine at work...... keep in contact with God and your friends in the program ( use that phone list if you can) and keep posting here.
I am out of town for the day but will be back to encourage you at the end of the day.
You are healing, you are a tropper!
cold sweats are probably a symtom of opiate withdrawal, either that or you just dreamed about being married to my ex wife. lol
Just think, every moment you stay clean is another moment that your brain is closer to getting back to normal. The neurons needs to re-learn how to fire without dope in your blood stream.
Your brain is working at a very quick rate whether your sleeping or not getting back to normal (i was told this about myself in benzo withdrawal)
Good on you for not drinking caffine, my doctor at the time said caffine make the withdrawal worse.
i was given Clonidine for opiate withdrawl and it worked very well.
you will make out just fine at work...... keep in contact with God and your friends in the program ( use that phone list if you can) and keep posting here.
I am out of town for the day but will be back to encourage you at the end of the day.
You are healing, you are a tropper!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks Dream, I appreciate all your support. I figured the sweats were an opiate thing, which is all the better. Since I stopped those first, hopefully they will go away soon. I am making sure that I go to a meeting every day. I will ask someone to be my sponsor as soon as I find someone that I feel like I connect with. The Clonidine has truly helped. No caffeine sucks, but more potent WDs suck worse, so cutting it is beneficial at this point. I'm doin okay at work, my motivation level right now is in the toilet, but I did suit up and show up, so I guess that counts for something. I am just trying to take this one day at a time and pray that tomorrow is better than today. I just want to be back to normal.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
right now I'm detoxing off effexor xr - the all time worse anti depressant to wean off.
I tried once before to wean off 300mg, and got expect brain zaps and electric shocks and really bad anxiety for months so i went ion 150mg again.
I've been on the stuff since the mid 90's and it's time to go off it, for good.
I'm also weaning off seroquel but it's not too bad at all.
I tired of being control by chemicals, even anti depressants.
I tried once before to wean off 300mg, and got expect brain zaps and electric shocks and really bad anxiety for months so i went ion 150mg again.
I've been on the stuff since the mid 90's and it's time to go off it, for good.
I'm also weaning off seroquel but it's not too bad at all.
I tired of being control by chemicals, even anti depressants.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Me too. I tried anti-depressants before, but almost all of them made me completely constipated. The one or two that didn't had side effects that I (and my wife) couldn't live with, like 0 sex drive. I have heard about the challenge of coming off Effexor, especially after that long. I really hope for the best for you.
I actually found something out after detoxing from opiates (morphine) the last time, in which I ended up in a 3 day rapid detox center. My doc checked my testosterone levels, and they were WAY below the normal. I now take weekly test injections, and they help alot with sex drive, depression, etc. Turns out that long term opiate use and high doses can significantly lower someones natural testosterone production, according to my doc and old pain management dr. Learn something new everyday I guess.
It seems like my WDs are always better at the end of the day, and more prevalent at the beginning. The sweats are always better at the end of the day. Don't know why. I just hope that this weekend more symptoms subside so that I can return to work on Monday a better worker than I have been. I don't know if it's the benzo or opiate WD, but at work I really want to distract myself, as it makes the day seem easier to deal with, maybe cause I don't have to focus, which is difficult. I'll try and keep going to a meeting a day this weekend to stay positive. Hard to do, since gas prices are horrible, but better than the alternative. Here's to hoping Monday is better. Again, thanks for all your support, and truly, good luck with the Effexor. I would love to hear how you are doing.
I actually found something out after detoxing from opiates (morphine) the last time, in which I ended up in a 3 day rapid detox center. My doc checked my testosterone levels, and they were WAY below the normal. I now take weekly test injections, and they help alot with sex drive, depression, etc. Turns out that long term opiate use and high doses can significantly lower someones natural testosterone production, according to my doc and old pain management dr. Learn something new everyday I guess.
It seems like my WDs are always better at the end of the day, and more prevalent at the beginning. The sweats are always better at the end of the day. Don't know why. I just hope that this weekend more symptoms subside so that I can return to work on Monday a better worker than I have been. I don't know if it's the benzo or opiate WD, but at work I really want to distract myself, as it makes the day seem easier to deal with, maybe cause I don't have to focus, which is difficult. I'll try and keep going to a meeting a day this weekend to stay positive. Hard to do, since gas prices are horrible, but better than the alternative. Here's to hoping Monday is better. Again, thanks for all your support, and truly, good luck with the Effexor. I would love to hear how you are doing.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Well, day 6 without the Valium and day 10 without the opiates. I still have some definite lingering side effects like sweats, being hot and cold, and not full energy yet, but it does feel like things are getting a little bit better. I'm still not touching caffeine, as I don't want to make anything worse. That rapid taper of the opiates, while truly miserable, really did help as opposed to the cold turkey. Trying to stay positive and just take everything one day at a time. I long for the day when all the side effects are gone, especially the sweating thing. It's not as bad as it was, but it still sucks. Means I can't put on a sweatshirt when I am freezing, cause then my back will get soaked. Oh well, I guess it could be worse.
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