GrowingPains

...former partner of an A. My exah was my first up close and personal experience with alcoholism. It made a huge negative impression and I prefer to keep my distance from alcoholics now. My emotional reaction to them has mellowed over time, but I just don't see any point in spending time with them while they are drinking, something I'm sure everyone here understands.

The problem is my partner's parents are alcoholics. He wants me to have a good relationship with them, but I see them as toxic. They were horrible and abusive to him while growing up and I don't see them as being particularly supportive of him now, either. His mother was also very unpleasant to me during our first year of dating. Nevertheless, he says the past is the past and spends a fair amount of time with him. I am ok with that -- it is his right to spend time with his family if he so chooses. I am cordial with them on the occasions I see them and have used my well-honed detachment skills to avoid trouble when necessary.

He's now spending more time with them than ever in a project he's invited me to participate in. I declined the invitation as gently as I could, but he is not taking it well at all. He knows how I feel about alcoholics, especially the emotionally and verbally abusive types (his mom), but he seems to think I should disregard my own feelings for the sake of this project.

Although we usually have an uncanny understanding of each other and our respective feelings, this situation is totally different. I think it has to do with his family dynamic, which is one I don't think anyone can truly understand unless they've been there. I haven't been there and I don't get it. Help?

GingerM

What is it you're trying to understand? Why it is he continues to be "close" to them? Why he's upset that you won't participate in his project? What his family dynamic is?

While I obviously don't know him well enough to be able to say with certainty what's going on, I might be able to give some insight.

dbh

Here are my random thoughts ...

Since working on my recovery I try to keep the focus on me.

I did grow up in an alcoholic home and I found that it continues to affect the decisions I make and the people I chose to be around. For example, I used to be attracted to men that I could save or friends who were always in crisis. As I get healthier, I find that I'm choosing to be around different types of people.

I too do not like being around active alcoholics, especially when they are drunk. It brings back too many unpleasant memories.

I can control who I spend my time with, but I can not control who others chose to be with. I think people are put in our lives for a reason and sometimes (unfortunately) we'll get multiple chances to learn what we need to learn.

Also, a dysfunctional family can exist without any alcohol being present. My mother grew up in a home with a narcissistic mother and she has many similar traits to an ACA.

Thanks for letting me share.

db

GrowingPains

Thank you for the responses!

It has bothered me to see his family to continue to treat him poorly at times. He would never tolerate that type of treatment from anyone else, but tends to make excuses for them. I know it's his business, but it can be tough when he comes home complaining about their latest mistreatment, which to me is consistent with what they've always done. I also know this dynamic may never change and if it did, it wouldn't have anything to do with my opinion.

Because of this and their active alcoholism, I limit the time I spend with them. The project would have forced me to spend lots of time with them as a group and I knew that was a horrible idea. He was extremely upset that I wouldn't even consider it, but we were finally able to communicate our feelings calmly and I am relieved we are back on the same page.

Although alcoholism wasn't a factor, I grew up with dysfunction as well. I at some point chose boundaries that worked with my own families (divorced) and I'm satisfied with them. I didn't mean to come off as saying only alcoholism causes family dysfunction.

dbh

GrowingPains:

Your post was fine. I think I sometimes tend to get too sensitive when I feel like someone is judging or being critical of an ACA's behavior.

I'm new to this board, but on the previous board I participated in every once in awhile a partner of an ACA would post a question wondering how they could "fix" their ACA. Coming from a family were we were never good enough and where I still am given unsolicited advice, posts like these would trigger me.

When I find myself wanting to fix someone or get too involved in their decision making process it usually is more about me and less about them. That's why I made the comment about dysfunctional homes coming in all shapes and sizes. I personally have found that my background has affected so many aspects of my life. Sometimes it's useful to look at your own family of origin and see how it is affecting you.

My father-in-law is an active alcoholic. He luckily lives 10 hours away from us so we rarely see him and he plays an extremely minor role in my life. When my husband and I were first married, my father-in-law got into the habit of calling or emailing when he was drunk. I immediately put a stop to that. I felt like I already put in enough time dealing with alcoholics. I stopped answering the phone and responding to email and the communications eventually stopped.

I think I'm lucky that my husband and I view his father in the same light. We both see him as an active alcoholic, who does not want help, and who is toxic to be around.

As an ACA, I've gone through so many phases with regards to my own parents - in denial that a problem even exists, holding onto the hope that my parents would change, and continuing to put up with abuse because I still desperately needed my parent's approval. You never know where someone else is on their own personal recovery journey.

Glad you and your partner were able to talk things out.

Warm Regards,

db

GingerM

Glad to hear that you were both able to sit down and discuss the issue without things getting ugly. I would say that the fact that your partner is able to have a discussion like this without being defensive is a sign that some fairly substantial recovery has already occurred on both of your parts.

Good on ya!

GrowingPains

dbh -- SO jealous of your 10 mile distance from your father-in-law! He does see them as possibly changing for the better (and maybe they will, who knows?)-- that's likely why he's still interacting as often as he does.

GingerM -- It was ugly at first. It always is whenever he wants me to do something that involves lots of uninterrupted time with his parents. No matter how gently I decline, things are always very bad initially. He then takes some time to think and is able to talk things out without any problems. It's the one area of our relationship that doesn't feel resolved.

MybfisACOA

I'm a GF of a ACOA, we have been together for 3 years, and I don't get any emoitional attention from him. I have read about ACOA and I have asked him to get help or at least speak to someone. He says he has dealt with the issues and thinks he is "normal"
He also smokes pot everyday and says he is the same with or without it. I have asked him to stop it for a while so that he can deal with his "real" emotions that probably have been bottled up. And he just gets mad at me... I don't know what to do anymore, should I just RUN???

tromboneliness

None of that will work. A drug counselor of our acquaintance says that pot is the hardest drug to convince someone they have a problem with.

Addicts/alcoholics/etc. have to decide that they want to get sober/clean/healthy -- they can't be made to do it.

Best thing to do (it's also the cheapest) is to go to an Al-Anon meeting. Even if you're going to RUN, which may be inevitable, it's a great way of gaining some understanding of how we interact with people in this type of situation. If you don't do that, that just paves the way for getting into another relationship with the same kind of person. That's what we call "the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results."

T

MybfisACOA

Thank you for answering me. So I should go to these meetings to understand him? I told him today, it's either the pot or me... I can't believe it's something he is even thinking about. Makes me feel worthless. Is him being addicted to pot and being emotionally unavailable all characteristics of a ACOA?

GingerM

Some ACoAs, not all of them, find that the demons of their childhood are simply too much to handle. They find ways to hide from their demons. It sounds like your bf hides in pot.

Telling your bf "it's either the pot or me" is, in his subconscious, akin to saying "you can either have demons tormenting you forever, or I'll leave." Honestly? You don't stand a chance in that situation. The fear of the demons is far stronger than the fear of losing you.

You would attend AlAnon meetings to understand these sorts of things and much much more. AlAnon is designed for people who are currently involved with active addicts (of anything - alcohol, drugs, work, doesn't matter much WHAT they're addicted to). It helps give insight into the behaviors that the non-addict is seeing and unable to understand.

Being emotionally unavailable and addicted to pot are characteristics of many things - but usually it boils down to fear of being hurt in the first case, and hiding from demons in the second. It makes no difference whether that was caused by alcoholic parents or just plain horrific experiences as a youth (think foster kids who bounce from home to home never having any stability in their lives, or worse yet, children who are sexual molested by the same person over a long period of time - alcohol doesn't have to be involved, but the situation is still very toxic to the child). Protecting the inner self by "hiding" ones' emotions is a very literal matter of survival. What better way to hide than to never feel those emotions? (thus the drug/alcohol usage - numb the pain).

GrowingPains

My experience has been there is nothing anyone can do to convince another person to stop using a substance. All you can do is decide if it's acceptable to you or not and act accordingly.

I used to date emotionally distant guys. Pot doesn't help, as they tend to burrow inside themselves with it, but taking it away won't transform the problem either. They may even become more distant, as they're not comfortable with living without the 'protection' of their chosen substance.

I was beyond shocked when my x chose to continue drinking / using when I finally reached my limit of being able to deal with it, but I'm glad he was honest. I was able to move on without guilt of 'abandoning' him.

MybfisACOA

..there is a lot to this huh? We had a long talk yesterday and he promised to TRY and give it up for a little bit. He fought me on it but gave in at the end. He doesnt understand how different he is when he smokes pot vs being "normal" ... He kept asking me "why, is it an issue now, when I met him like this" and I think he is right. It's my fault for sticking around. I just turned 30, and maybe thought he would have out grown the childish "let's get high" behavior...I know;dumb on my part for not knowing that this goes WAY deeper. He refuses to seek help, but yet, is willing to go to couples therapy ... He says "WE" have issues, not because he is ACOA. He states he has "dealt" with being ACOA and it is what it is.

GrowingPains

I'd suggest you hit the 'friends and family of addicts' or 'friends and family of alcoholics' sections here. That's where I came from, as I was the spouse of an alcoholic. Do some reading and I'm sure you'll see lots of familiar stuff. I'd thought my situation was unique until I came here.

I came to this section because I'm having a hard time navigating my partner's alcoholic and emotionally abusive parents. I value my relationship with him very much, but I want to stay away from his parents as much as possible without offending him. This has turned out to be very difficult.

tromboneliness

What's probably going on here is that he's trying to figure out what he has to do to get you off his case. They'll "try" to give it up, or they'll just say, "OK, that settles it -- I just won't do it anymore, that's over and done." It usually lasts a short time, after which they're back to using/drinking.

Saying "that ACOA stuff is in the past, I'm done with it" translates loosely as, "Shut up -- I'm not interested in working on this."

Those things, however, are within the sphere of "Things I cannot change." The "Things I can" are what you need to work on -- and that is what Al-Anon (or whatever other recovery program you want to do) will help with. If you concentrate on trying to change someone else's behavior, that's just going to drive you nuts -- because you can't control it. But once you start working on your own stuff, that's where you start to get some traction. After I had been in Al-Anon for a few months, things really started to calm down at home -- there was a lot less fighting, controlling, and gnashing of teeth, even though the subject was still drinking (a lot). Once I learned not to take the bait, not to get drawn into fights or get manipulated, and figured out how to deal with whatever reaction I got home, things became much saner. With no change on her part! The benefit? When she was finally ready to get sober/healthy, I was still there, instead of gone. That was almost 15 years ago, and we're still together. Good luck!

T

GingerM

Going to couples therapy (if you get a good therapist) is not a bad idea at all - even if he continues with the pot. I would honestly say that the couples therapy my husband and I went to opened my eyes to the extent of the damage and how much I needed to do if I wanted to be healthy. It didn't address my issues (that's what individual therapy is for, couples therapy works on the couple as a unit), but it definitely opened my eyes.

And it may open your eyes too. There is some reason why you're willing to put up with his behavior and why you continue to try changing him. Our marriage counselor used to ask us (in all earnestness) "How do you participate in this?" I think it's a good question to ponder. How DO you participate in this? Both parties must be involved to have conflict, which means you are actively involved in the conflict also. Are you aware of how you're involved? (The question is genuine, not blaming... text often loses tone of voice, so I want to make it clear that the above question is not accusatory).

wanttobehealthy

Going to a couples therapist while he is actively using a substance to avoid dealing with real life means that couples therapy will give him fuel to tell you that the issue is really you both instead of HIM focussing on him and you focussing on you.

I have been told repeatedly by T's my AH and I have tried seeing that it is a waste of time to see a couples counselor when there is any active addiction at hand.

I'd strongly suggest you not jump into that with him.