Habits made worse by outpatient program
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Habits made worse by outpatient program
this just really sucks, but i feel sad/stupid/whatever about how i went into treatment for opiate addiction and during the "groups" people would share their experiences of using other substances (and the counselor would let them share freely) and how they did it and how much they did it- and it got me into a world of previously unknown (to me) substances that are right out there, so easy to get and ruin your life... stuff you can buy right in the walgreens or whatever, and being stupid, i had to check it out for myself- so that's how i got addicted even further to stuff like dxm. i know people will want to do it if they want, but i can warn that it really sucks to have so much information about drugs (which kinds to use & stuff)... i wish i could just unlearn that stuff.
Harnois,
Disregard the precious poster....I agree with you that when I hear people sharing about how they used it gets me going. My advice to start attending NA meetings where they prohibit that exactly for the same reasons.
Good luck with you recovery!
Disregard the precious poster....I agree with you that when I hear people sharing about how they used it gets me going. My advice to start attending NA meetings where they prohibit that exactly for the same reasons.
Good luck with you recovery!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Merritt Island, Fl
Posts: 1,164
Then what do you do the other 23 hours? Just sayin...
Welcome!!!
Habit?
I always thought it was a lot more serious than a 'habit'.
I used to have a bad habit of biting my fingernails, for example.
While it might have been somewhat embarassing, it wasn't going to kill me, and I simply stopped one day.
Habit?
I always thought it was a lot more serious than a 'habit'.
I used to have a bad habit of biting my fingernails, for example.
While it might have been somewhat embarassing, it wasn't going to kill me, and I simply stopped one day.
Hey there - I get what you're saying, but did the others in that group run out and do the same as you?
C'mon. It's not the programs fault or the groups fault you went out and took over-the-counter-medication to get high.
To thy own self be true
Deep down, you know it's not their fault. It's your responsability to get and stay sober if that's your goal.
Now let's start over.
How can we help you to see your part in this?
How can you help yourself to stop using?
What do you need to do?
Kjell
C'mon. It's not the programs fault or the groups fault you went out and took over-the-counter-medication to get high.
To thy own self be true
Deep down, you know it's not their fault. It's your responsability to get and stay sober if that's your goal.
Now let's start over.
How can we help you to see your part in this?
How can you help yourself to stop using?
What do you need to do?
Kjell
We're glad you decided to join.
Feel free to start a post and let us know more about you.
Kjell
In treatment, (imo and my experience in treatment) it's the group facilitator's job to get the group to focus on what triggers a person may have and how to recognize and help that person build tools to cope with those triggers. It should be about recovery and NOT using and NOT what, how much or where one used.
It's the individual's responsibility to do the work and be totally and completely HONEST with themself and others. If you're triggered, say so.
One thing I really didn't like about my Relapse Prevention group is that when we identified ourselves/checked-in at the begining of group (My name is ...., I'm a addict) the therapist had us also identify our drug of choice! In group I asked, what does it matter? I brought up that in NA they specifically state that it doesn't matter what or how much we used or who or connections were. I was told that it was so we could "identify" with each other?
Two things come to mind for me from my treatment center when I read the original post in this thread....
In my Relapse Prevention group during IOP there was the therapist (he was an MFT - addictions), me (an opiate addict) and 5-6 guys (all meth addicts). I can't remember exactly what was said but it had something to do with meth during our check-in. Every single one of the meth addicts were triggered really bad! They all became really squirrely and beet red. Most of them said they could literally taste the drug and felt a certain rumble in their gut. It was BIZARRE! I was the one who pointed out the red faces and then we all took a minute to deep breathe and just relax. From there on out we never checked-in stating our drug of choice.
During breaks at my treatment center many of us would go outside to smoke. The conversations outside for many many people consisted of the complete romantisizing of their use. It was awful. I don't mean to appear ageist, but it was always the younger people telling their stories and wearing their stories like a badge of honor or something; trying to compare stories and one-up each other. This was in the first weeks of recovery. Now, months later when I see these people (not all of them make it back for aftercare), the conversations are much different.
In my rehab the rule was always recovery focused and we weren't suppossed to talk about actual use. The facilitators had no control over what conversations took place outside during our breaks, but they did inside during groups. I think they did a pretty good job and changed the direction of a conversation when it strayed to the type of talk that went on outside.
I personally thrived by listening to other's stories (what it was like for them and what happened). There is a fine line however that I think the treatment facility is responsible for - the fine line between someone's story and the romantisizing of their use.
I'll say it again harnois - HONESTY. If you are triggered SAY SO to the group. If you go to meetings, stand up and say you are feeling like using. No one is going to judge you - you just may be surprised at the help you receive. Find a sponsor and be honest.
Use the tools you learn in treatment. Hold yourself accountable and act responsibly.
All the best...
It's the individual's responsibility to do the work and be totally and completely HONEST with themself and others. If you're triggered, say so.
One thing I really didn't like about my Relapse Prevention group is that when we identified ourselves/checked-in at the begining of group (My name is ...., I'm a addict) the therapist had us also identify our drug of choice! In group I asked, what does it matter? I brought up that in NA they specifically state that it doesn't matter what or how much we used or who or connections were. I was told that it was so we could "identify" with each other?
Two things come to mind for me from my treatment center when I read the original post in this thread....
In my Relapse Prevention group during IOP there was the therapist (he was an MFT - addictions), me (an opiate addict) and 5-6 guys (all meth addicts). I can't remember exactly what was said but it had something to do with meth during our check-in. Every single one of the meth addicts were triggered really bad! They all became really squirrely and beet red. Most of them said they could literally taste the drug and felt a certain rumble in their gut. It was BIZARRE! I was the one who pointed out the red faces and then we all took a minute to deep breathe and just relax. From there on out we never checked-in stating our drug of choice.
During breaks at my treatment center many of us would go outside to smoke. The conversations outside for many many people consisted of the complete romantisizing of their use. It was awful. I don't mean to appear ageist, but it was always the younger people telling their stories and wearing their stories like a badge of honor or something; trying to compare stories and one-up each other. This was in the first weeks of recovery. Now, months later when I see these people (not all of them make it back for aftercare), the conversations are much different.
In my rehab the rule was always recovery focused and we weren't suppossed to talk about actual use. The facilitators had no control over what conversations took place outside during our breaks, but they did inside during groups. I think they did a pretty good job and changed the direction of a conversation when it strayed to the type of talk that went on outside.
I personally thrived by listening to other's stories (what it was like for them and what happened). There is a fine line however that I think the treatment facility is responsible for - the fine line between someone's story and the romantisizing of their use.
I'll say it again harnois - HONESTY. If you are triggered SAY SO to the group. If you go to meetings, stand up and say you are feeling like using. No one is going to judge you - you just may be surprised at the help you receive. Find a sponsor and be honest.
Use the tools you learn in treatment. Hold yourself accountable and act responsibly.
All the best...
yeah...substituting one for another was a pattern for me when I was still using my blame-thrower, too!
I was torching various people, places and things until I knew I was done.
I found out treatment with a counselor is a bit different from 12 step fellowship traditions. My treatment counselor suggested I go to meetings until I wanted to....then to do what I want.
The best thing I remember learning, and also the most simple, from my IOP was this:
1) Don't use
2) Pay attention
I went to meetings, and kept going back.
I got a sponsor, I worked the steps and have come to an understanding of the traditions.
Today I have recovery.
Today we can help you stay clean if you want to.
Welcome!
I was torching various people, places and things until I knew I was done.
I found out treatment with a counselor is a bit different from 12 step fellowship traditions. My treatment counselor suggested I go to meetings until I wanted to....then to do what I want.
The best thing I remember learning, and also the most simple, from my IOP was this:
1) Don't use
2) Pay attention
I went to meetings, and kept going back.
I got a sponsor, I worked the steps and have come to an understanding of the traditions.
Today I have recovery.
Today we can help you stay clean if you want to.
Welcome!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Merritt Island, Fl
Posts: 1,164
Traetment helped me get clean, but NA helped me stay clean. I learned that the ONLY "trigger" I have is the one between my ears...it's not what people say or do that makes me want to use...it's what I think about what they say or do (self-obsession) and how it could work for me or make me feel. Once I act on those thoughts, I can't stop (compulsion)...and the root of it all is that I want to do what I want to do (self-centeredness) regardless of the consequences. Like others have already said, I had to put my blame-thrower away and look at why I was still trying to use sucessfully...when all the evidence showed I never could. Treatment is discovery, but in NA I found recovery.
G
G
I used to smoke crack, alot. During treatment when other people talked about using and I could feel the cravings kick in, it gave me the chance to learn how to make them go away. It worked and now I don't smoke crack.
When people would talk about other drugs and how much fun they were, I thought "I really don't need another addiction, I have enough problems from the one" You get what you want in treatment, all depends on your piont of view. I listening to people glorify their drug use bothers you, be thankful you're not an alcoholic. Cause them commercails sure make it look good.
Larry
When people would talk about other drugs and how much fun they were, I thought "I really don't need another addiction, I have enough problems from the one" You get what you want in treatment, all depends on your piont of view. I listening to people glorify their drug use bothers you, be thankful you're not an alcoholic. Cause them commercails sure make it look good.
Larry
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
yeh thanks for welcoming me and i'm not meaning to blame it on anyone but myself... i was just saying that it sucked that i learned about other drugs from the iop. and it happened at like the worst moment, when i was so vulnerable to obsessing over drugs, so yea i went out and tried it, my bad. i do wonder if anyone else in the group did also. you never know... and i do find that aa helped me more than na, i guess that's just my view. it seems like some of the younger people are still on the fence and do come and go a lot more than the older people, and i find most of the older folks at aa. i find there's less "war stories" going on at aa too, at least in my experience. i didn't mean to sound like i was attacking iop's, sorry about that. i WAS in one that was helpful, but, as someone mentioned, the smoke breaks outside (like ten a day)!!- the talk was like glorifying and/or drama about this one or that one (gossip), so i found i did better when i kept to myself. i don't smoke anyway, thank goodness for at least that! it's nice to be able to come on here and talk with people that have the struggles as i do.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Merritt Island, Fl
Posts: 1,164
Well, let me clarify. A meeting will only keep you sober for an hour. The program teaches you how to handle the rest of the day. Just showing up does nothing, so in short I was agreeing with you... Just sayin.
I prefer meetings that stay focused on the solution, with only general sharing on the symptoms of the problem. The problem is me--and when I try with my problematic mind to deal with me, I break out in using. I need a solution that changes my mind. Not to say I haven't been to plenty of meetings where sharing on the symptoms became very specific. I've concluded that kind of specific sharing comes from two kinds of folks (and I've been one or the other at different points in time): newcomers who don't yet grasp the true problem or the solution, or people who've been around awhile and still don't yet grasp the true problem or the solution. That's in meetings, where theoretically, one addict helps another. In good meetings, those who are living in the solution help others to get there.
I don't have a lot of experience with IOP. I did a couple of years of group therapy for mental health issues, and I've done one-on-one counseling after rehab. The inpatient treatment I've received has been mixed, and honestly? Some of those experiences involved dual-diagnosis where I was medicated so heavily that I remember very little of what went on. Here's what I do remember, and this is my layperson's theory: if an IOP group is led by a non-addict whose knowledge is academic, it's reasonable on a certain level that he or she wouldn't understand that specific talk of using could be triggering to an addict. I remember an emphasis placed on the consequences of using to build a kind of repellent against using, but consequences never stopped me from using, so, at least in retrospect, I can see it wasn't very effective.
I'm not validating your claim that hearing about these new substances in IOP is the cause of your using them. That's addiction, my friend--when we're in that powerless place where we just can't say no, the wind blowing is enough "cause" to pick up a drug. I was in a relationship where we used together, and every once in awhile, we'd talk about quitting. The talk would start with how much we didn't want to use, and eventually, we'd talk our way right into buying more. We never sought another Power to help us. We, two sick junkies, relied on each other, and we were too sick to do anything about it. If you're in a situation with a lot of other sick junkies, talk to the counselor. Bring it out in the group. Have the courage to speak up. If nothing changes, maybe it's time to accept that you need a different kind of help.
And for the record, though I didn't use over it, the mention of one particular substance in my early recovery got my head spinning. It took time, work, and prayer to get to the point that I could even talk about it if asked.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
I don't have a lot of experience with IOP. I did a couple of years of group therapy for mental health issues, and I've done one-on-one counseling after rehab. The inpatient treatment I've received has been mixed, and honestly? Some of those experiences involved dual-diagnosis where I was medicated so heavily that I remember very little of what went on. Here's what I do remember, and this is my layperson's theory: if an IOP group is led by a non-addict whose knowledge is academic, it's reasonable on a certain level that he or she wouldn't understand that specific talk of using could be triggering to an addict. I remember an emphasis placed on the consequences of using to build a kind of repellent against using, but consequences never stopped me from using, so, at least in retrospect, I can see it wasn't very effective.
I'm not validating your claim that hearing about these new substances in IOP is the cause of your using them. That's addiction, my friend--when we're in that powerless place where we just can't say no, the wind blowing is enough "cause" to pick up a drug. I was in a relationship where we used together, and every once in awhile, we'd talk about quitting. The talk would start with how much we didn't want to use, and eventually, we'd talk our way right into buying more. We never sought another Power to help us. We, two sick junkies, relied on each other, and we were too sick to do anything about it. If you're in a situation with a lot of other sick junkies, talk to the counselor. Bring it out in the group. Have the courage to speak up. If nothing changes, maybe it's time to accept that you need a different kind of help.
And for the record, though I didn't use over it, the mention of one particular substance in my early recovery got my head spinning. It took time, work, and prayer to get to the point that I could even talk about it if asked.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
Please remember you are a memeber of the group. As such, you have the right to raise your voice and request detailed drug use need not be discussed, in addition to the ritualistic acts of certain drug use. I personally can't stand that; it's almost like someone is masturbating with words, living out a pretend high. It's not good at all for sobriety.
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