question

Good Morning,

For 46 years I've had Christmas with my family of origin in some form or another. Always. Since my Dad passed away three years ago, lots has changed, but we still got together at Christmas. This Christmas though, my family (husband and two kids) and I were not invited to a Christmas gathering that my mom had at her house the Sunday after New Year's. Only my brother and his family were there. 15 days ago I called my mom to see how she was and she proceeded to tell me all about the Christmas dinner my brother brought and how much fun they all had had. I let her know how angry and hurt I was and she said, "I thought about calling you to invite you, but I didn't act on it."

This kind of passive-aggressive behavior from my mother toward me is not new behavior. There's been many things she's done that are similar, from sabotaging my late father's business after saying my husband and I could manage it for her, to scheduling her knee surgery on my son's due date after telling me she'd be able to help me after his birth. This time, though, my children were hurt. Even at ages 14 and 21, this one was a shocker to them.

What's different is that I have finally reached my tolerence. I'm ready to untangle the ways that I have felt responsible for her, for her finances since Dad died, for her home maintenance, etc, etc. I see how my ever-ready over responsibility was self-protective when I was a child. If I could keep things on an even keel in the house, then she wouldn't come after me in violent ways. Now, I'm ready to give back to her the ways in which I have felt responsibility for her when it was never my job.

I'm not sure if she is actively drinking, she says no, but I also know that this is dry drunk behavior. Maybe the drinking is gone, but everything else has stayed the same. And, her drinking or not is not my business anyway. My business is to decide how much I'm willing to participate.

I've been in and out of alanon and acoa since I was a teenager. I've been to some online meetings and have returned to reading the books with more regularity recently.

I'm willing to support my kids to continue a relationship with her if they want. I don't poison them with my past abuse by her or current issues with her. I just don't want any contact.

Has anyone else ever decided to stop contact with their Alcoholic parent?

Thanks for reading,
Question

Codie101

Question... I have for the second time in my life cut all ties to my mother. Of course, up until a week ago I said it was because of her controlling behavior etc... This week I joined SR and have discovered that my mother is a dry alcoholic. Her dad was an alcoholic. I will not re-connect with her until I have completed my recovery as an ACA and codependent.

She has always expected perfection from me. I am an only child from her first marriage. I have a half brother and half sister considerably younger than me from her second marriage. She never is not accountable for her own behavior - instead she blames others. She has said horrible things to me not realizing that I am a product of her alcoholic environment. Finally she is a "bulldozer" - more than the child in me can bear.

Bottomline, I don't think there is anything wrong in taking a break from her. You need to worry about you. As far as your children having contact with her...your oldest is 21? He or she is old enough to decide if contact is wanted. I am sure they have witnessed her behavior over the years. I think I would encourage polite contact for the children - nothing more!

Good luck! I know this is a hard thing to do, but I am glad that I did.

GingerM

Question: I have been on the edge of going no-contact with my parents for many years running now - but not in the normal way. My dad will get angry with me, and tell me if I don't change (speaking of bullies), he's never going to talk to me anymore (to which my husband replies "again? like the last time?"). The next day he'll bring me cookies or scones or something, with no mention of his threats the previous night.

At first this threw me for a loop. But I spent some time working on it with a therapist, and came to the conclusion that it would be far easier to let him have his way than to allow him to bully me. So each encounter I have with him, in the back of my mind is the idea that I may have to say "That's your decision and I will honor your boundaries" (I have actually said this to him several times, it scares him when I do it. Bullies don't like it when you call their bluff).

What I'm trying to say is that you can go no contact. You can even see it coming a mile away and do it. Sometimes when my dad is "not going to talk to me ever again" it will be several days before I hear from him. But I never initiate first contact. His boundaries may be set by alcohol, but that doesn't give me the right to trample all over them (my opinion only).

If you believe that your life would be better without the interaction, then I suggest you find someone you can talk to about how to deal with the nitty gritty of the emotional fallout. There are things that aren't apparent immediately which will surface, and those who know about going no contact can warn you about them. AlAnon members who have gone no contact or therapists who deal with family members (you can find them by calling rehab centers) could help you.

I agree that you should let your children decide for themselves how much contact they want. I have a 19 year old teen, he is choosing his own level of contact and learning to set his own boundaries, and all those great things that I didn't start learning until I was in my 30s. I'm glad he's starting younger. Please don't deprive your children of their ability to learn how to navigate this social mess - the skills they learn with your parents can be used with lots of other people in their lives (there are bullies everywhere!). Better they learn the skills now, than later.

pascal

I have supported my alcoholic mother for the last decade at the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless hours of "good son activities". Why? Because she is always the victim, and I am the son who was never good enough. I took on the overachiever, savior role.

The one thing that most keeps me sober is that I don't want to be like her. I have forgiven her, and she is now dry. But what alcoholic parents program into their children's minds is almost impossible to remove.

bluebelle

I have gone no contact with my AM for as much as a year at a time. I went no contact about four years ago because of her abusive behavior toward me and the rest of the family. I felt bad, but it was necessary for my sanity. We had also had her comitted to a psychiatric hospital, so it's not like we weren't trying to help her. Right now, the contact is on my own terms. She can call me and leave a message. I will return it and talk to her as long as she doesn't start with the abuse. I live in another state and have no plans to see her in person. I can't trust her to be safe. The last time I visited, we had to call the police more than once.

I believe that we have the power to go no contact with our parents if that is what is going to keep us sane. We are not required to put up with abusive behavior/language just because somebody is related to us. Some people do not understand why I have limited contact with my mother. However, they also don't know her!

bea41

My guess is that every situation is different.

I explained myself to my father, let him know how I felt a father/daughter relationship should go. We both agreed to a plan that would get us closer, and when it was his turn to call, it took six months.

I never returned that call. I thought returning that call would be like swallowing the key to a cage you were locked in. No thanks. I know not everyone is in the same situation though.

There were good times that I had with my father but those ended when I turned 12. After that, they were sporadic at best. To me, that's when I began to grieve him. What's left of him now, is never who he was to me.

My mother is an alcoholic too, and I'm close to her. She was the tough one to deal with because I lived with her. All the typical crap went down, and her issues trapped me in different ways for a long time.

I had to let her know exactly what I thought of her behavior because there was no way I was having that at my wedding. I basically told her that I would have no problem leaving for the last time if things didn't turn around. I think because I stood my ground with my father, she knew I wasn't bluffing.

I know they're my parents, and I didn't approach the subject with them as an attack, but I wasn't shy about how I felt. I explained that talking about this didn't mean that I wanted them to apologize for things that were a million years ago. I just wanted them to acknowledge that things happened then, that affect me to this day, and I wasn't making it up. There were reasons why I was the way I was! I just wanted to start fresh, we didn't have to rehash anything, but I wasn't going to put up with anything anymore either.

I was as fair as I could be when telling someone that in order for me to be a success at my life, they had to fall into place. Just be responsible adults/parents. One could, one couldn't.

I know that you are supposed to do whatever you can for your parents, and I completely agree. Except, when my parents got divorced, my Dad thought that meant that he was a bachelor again.

Anyway, I could keep going on and on about all these things that I'm sure you all went through in some form or another.

I'm new here and have never posted. I'm happy to learn from others in similar situations. Thanks for sharing and allowing me to!

mushroom

I dropped all contact with my ACOA mother decades ago. When I lived in the same county, everyone I knew was glad she was out of my life. They all thought she was nuts. Now I live in a different state and I tell people who don't know my family that I don't have any family. Father dead, mother was never a mother anyway, brothers all codependent mommy's boys. I don't contact any of them either. It hurts, but not nearly as much as still being in contact with any of them.

The worst part is the people who refuse to respect your decision, who insist that you're bad for not keeping a relationship with her - "but she's your own mother! she gave you life! she raised you and did everything for you and gave up so much for you!" Um, no, you must be talking about someone else, 'cause that doesn't sound like anyone I know. That's why I just go with being an orphan, because in reality I am one. The woman who gave birth to me is still alive but she was never a mother. I've offered to give people her phone number if they feel so strongly about her being abandoned, they can go ahead and give her a call and take her on themselves. No one's taken me up on it. Usually when I mention that she refused to go to either of my weddings, people drop it. Or when I mention that not one of my three brothers has a job, and two of them live with her (the youngest is 50), then people get the idea that there's something really screwy going on there.

You can do this. It doesn't have to be permanent if you change your mind later. And you can go back and forth at will. You don't have to explain yourself to anyone who refuses to understand.

Wascally Wabbit

Sounds like we have the same mother. The Christmas gathering thing is something my mom would pull.
I did stay away from her for about 15 years. She sobered up, got into AA etc.
It didn't change anything except the drinking. She's still "passive-aggressive"
When she starts in on how "wonderful" my cousin is, I just reply, "You're right, she is wonderful!"
It sort of takes away her "pleasure" of making me feel like I am not as good.
One thing I have learned here, is that it's all about how you respond.

question

I am so very thankful for all the responses that my post received here. Please know how much it means to understand that I am not alone.

ladyhawk69

My fiance's mother is also a dry drunk. He and his brothers' and sisters' endured years of mental abuse while mom and dad were out drinking. He has let go. They still talk occasionally (usually when she calls because she wants him to do something). He simply just doesn't do it, or chooses not to pick up the phone. He's a Christian man and has forgiven her. He simply chooses NOT to be an active part in her ongoing abuse. Hang in there, be tough and realize it's not your fault. You also have choices to participate in her abusive game, or not to.

question

Thanks again to everyone who posted here. I so appreciate it.

Well, since February 14th since I not talked to my mother. An entire month!
I did call her on Valentine's Day, since Dad passed away three years ago, I know it's been a challenging day for her. But once I realized she wasn't really listening and was watching tv while fake talking with me, I got off the phone.

The last thing she mentioned was about how she knows that the man I was dating during the time that my first book was published 23 years ago must have had a lot to do with its publication. What? Nope, mom, actually, I am that talented. A publishing house actually wanted to and did publish my book because it was a good book. I wrote a good book. In the moment I didn't respond (other than to tell her she was mistaken) as I know from experience my response makes no difference. She will always have her own ideas about me which have nothing to do with the real me. That was hurtful, though. That's when I realized, again, that I am done.

I will admit, it does feel weird. It feels different, but NOT bad. In fact, I have a lot more energy for my own life and family than I did when I was constantly thinking about her finances, her house, her health, etc. I was able to get clear about a few things. For example, I DO think her prescription narcotic use is definitely problem (she's an A). It's a problem for me, maybe not for her, but for me. I'm also okay if my sister and brother don't contact me (they haven't). I'm okay in every way about any family-of-origin scenario I can think of. If the price of freedom is my brother, sister, and mom, well, I'm okay with that. I've expanded my teaching schedule, been eating well, exercising, taking dance class again, doing things with my family. Enjoying being alive.

And, when I have the thought, "I should probably call my mom," I think about how the phone works two ways. Email works two ways. The truth is that she hasn't contacted me, either. This helps me, actually, to navigate the grief I initially felt. She really isn't going to be able to have a normal Mother/Daughter relationship with me. I've tried my entire life to make that work, but, again, it takes two to have any kind of relationship, doesn't it. :-)

tromboneliness

That's about how things got with my Dad, toward the end -- I'd just agree with whatever the h3ll he said, and not worry about whether or not any resemblance to rationality on his part was purely coincidental.

At a certain point, the realization set in that it doesn't matter who's right. If my Dad wanted to feel as though he was right (which, for 47 years, he always did), well, so be it -- let him think he's right if he wants. It's not going to change anything, and if it gets him to shut up, I'd just nod my head and say, "Ya, I know what you mean," etc.

Now that he's been gone a few months, it still feels weird -- not bad, not "grieving over loss," exactly... I'm not sure what. Relieved, I guess, is the biggest part of it.

But ya -- if the cranky-ol' parents want to think they're right about everything, let 'em be right; it doesn't affect our life any. They can think whatever they want, fine, yada-yada-yada, knock yerself out. In my family of origin, we were brought up to believe that someone had to "win" every argument. There was no such thing as your truth and my truth -- only one person could be "right," and it was all about determining who it was (it goes without saying that this always meant my Dad)! Once I figured out how to let go of that, my blood pressure dropped 20 points right there!

T

question

Well, Mom must have been counting the days, too. Since March 14th (the 30th day of no contact) she's been calling, emailing, and texting me every day. She even called my son on his cell phone and asked him if I was home and why I wasn't answering the phone. I'm thinking about sending her a note, maybe an email, to let her know that I'm taking a break.... It was so much easier when she wasn't calling or contacting me....

Maryjan

My therapist told me that all i have to do is decide it's over. For me. I don't have to inform my father or anything. I feel guilty about not returning his calls, though...so confusing.

tromboneliness

THAT's the thing! You don't have to announce that you're setting a boundary -- all you have to do is set the boundary, then stick to it.

With my Dad, I started answering -- oh, maybe every second or third call, instead of picking up the phone every time I got "the dreaded third buzz," meaning that it was a phone call, not a text message. There is no law that says you have to pick up the phone! Our parents' generation may have had a cultural standard that said when the phone rings, you drop what you're doing and pick it up -- but who says we still have to do that?

I had some guilt feelings, too -- but it got to the point where I just said, "F890 it. What are the consequences if I distance myself from my father? Zip. There's nothing he can do to me at this point." Except, I suppose, cut me out of his will -- but I knew he wouldn't do that, and he didn't. (My Dad was many things, but he also had this thing about loyalty, or even, one might say, enmeshment! )

Cut the cord. Don't answer the phone. Ignore the dreaded third buzz. And remember: You don't have to justify any of it -- just establish boundaries and stick to them. There is no rule that says you have to be fair (whatever that means)....

T

question

Thanks Maryjan and Tromboneliness for your much appreciated responses. It was my therapist who suggested sending an email. I've been feeling waves of intense anxiety every time I hear the phone ring or text bell go off. The old ptsd startle-response is back full force.

Of course, an email might just make her call more.... this is so tricky. I'm amazed at the force inside me that wants to pick up the phone or answer the text msg in order to "get it over with" because "I can handle it" and "it's not a big deal." But, I know that my internal responses to her are still very much linked to the past and to trying to keep everything calm so that she didn't have a violent blow-up aimed at me or worse. And, also, linked to trying to do everything "right" so that she will finally see me as a real, live person with my own purpose for being alive.

The boundary is definitely set and I'm unwilling to return to old patterns. I will meditate on sending an email or just letting it be.

BornFree

Thank you for all your posts, I'm new to this site and am grateful to be able to talk to others who know as "perhaps few can", and will get me. I have been a long time AlAnon, CoDa, and only a little ACOA in the past. After moving 2000 miles away from my family of origin for thirty years. When my health took a severe backslide and I ended living on a disability pension, and my adult son reached out to me close to suicide, for whatever reason a decision was made for me to return to the fold so to speak. I can only describe the first five years of our arrival as not only toxic, it was also severely traumatic for both of us. My son saw them as the help we needed, my gut told me different even before we arrived. I can get into more of my story another time as I relate more to the topic in the moment, of the choice of being around my family of origin or not. living so close after a thirty year, 2000mile safety net has been a real growing experience for me. It took the whole of last year for me to physically and emotionally detach from my mother, father and two brothers, set the boundaries and stick to them with my best interests at heart for the first time in my life. As they say when one person in the system changes, the whole system has a chance to change. When I walked away, didn't phone, let them know I had, had enough this time, I think it scared them, that wasn't my intention though. I needed serenity, peace of mind and just plain old sanity back in my life after five years. Today I have a lot more of it, a stronger sense of self back. I have gradually been a part of the family again since my mother had to have surgery in January, she's 83. it was an event that brought us into contact with each other again and I have carefully accepted a certain role in the family with each member on my own terms, with a plan of meeting each half way in order to respect each others differences. It's working for now, and I have no illusions left in me. At 61 I feel I have made the right moves to own my power in a responsible way, and at the same time realize the importance of talking things out with people who understand what I will be facing from time to time. My hope is that I have found that help on this site. After reading your posts of a similar nature I feel I belong, even the way I found this site I feel led by my HP. I've been struggling at times without a meeting as they were stopped in my small town the same year I arrived here. Even though I have my AlAnon, CoDa and ACOA readers, it's not enough, especially being in such close contact with my family. Thank you for all your sharings, they meant a lot to me, and it feels good to know I can give back again with my own experiences, strength and help at times.

EveningRose

It is both sad and reassuring to read these posts and see that what I'm experiencing is NOT me being crazy or me being so awful my family treats me this way, but follows a clear pattern within alcoholic families.

Question, I have not really spoken to my mother in 3 or 4 years. She is not technically the alcoholic, but in some ways worse. I finally realized she had some bizarre notions about who I was, she kept telling me to my face I deserved horrible treatment from people, and kept telling other people strange versions of incidents in which she always saw into my heart and knew my mind and motives and of course they were always bad. Plus, she never did anything but complain, and really only wanted me there so she didn't have to talk to the wall. She was never interested in anything I had to say. I don't miss her at all, sorry to say, and she has made no attempt whatsoever to contact me.

I cut contact with my father a few months after I cut contact with her, when he started in about how I deserved bad treatment and told me I wasn't quite up to snuff as a parent. This from a diagnosed alcoholic with a jail record for domestic abuse and multiple incidents of attacks on his wife and daughters. Enough was enough. I don't miss him, either.

The fallout is, I'm now the bad guy to everyone. My sisters, after also trying to explain to me that I deserve this stuff, have essentially quit speaking to me. I'm noticing some extended family members who are not as friendly with me as with others, when I can't think of a single thing I've done to bring that on.

But overall, I do think this is the better option. The other is to continue putting up with every insult and attack and keep smiling like it's okay, because I know if I returned it, it would escalate, and I'm not going to get into brawls, verbal or physical. It reached a point where I simply could not let it roll off anymore, and I saw walking away as the better option to having an all-out fight.

EveningRose

Don't know why my edit of the above post didn't work! Your comment about your book really struck a chord with me. My mother also discounts my successes, although in the social field. She has been known to say, when people actually (gasp) LIKE me, that I must be putting on an act for them because if I showed my true colors and acted like I (supposedly) do with my family, they wouldn't like me.

skazo

@bluebelle, that is what i have thought about doing with my mother, but she is so abusive that one of my brothers literally crumbles in her presence, because she cant get enough of putting him down, my other brother is the angel who can do no wrong and refuses to be involved in any kind of confrontation with her alcoholism, and my sister lives in a foreign country. Can i get her committed on my own?