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warning, long, long post- need help

Old 07-07-2010, 06:39 PM
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warning, long, long post- need help

Hello all,

I am choking up at this first post. My son, 38 years old, has never really "lived", not in a good functional way. As a child, he was very smart, and a computer was his first purchase. That gave him a world of things that were interesting to him. He loved D&D (Dungeons and Dragons) , and went on to online games. As a single mom, with two daughters too, I let him do too many things his way. He would argue til the cows came home, and I gave in, just to have peace. He was never into family gatherings, too boring, too many fun things in cyberspace. I realize that I did not hold him responsible for much. He took a job in high school, but got bored. He was a very scatter-brained kid, and no common sense .
He went to college after high school, for a few months, until staying up late in computer labs and not getting to class caused him to lag behind. he did not tell me that he needed money for books either, tho i had no money to help, i'd have found a way. so, he dropped out, and took off with friends, across the country. did not call me for nearly a year, and I had nightmares that he was dead. he did call me once, and sent a few letters, but that stopped, and I had to try to contact friends he knew, just to find out if he was alive.
finally, he came back to our town, and stayed with his dad and step mom. that did not last long, as he would not work, but stayed up on computer all night, and made excuses always for not getting jobs or not keeping them.

Was kicked out by step mom, and came to stay with me. went to work where i worked, and still , did not practice good sense about sleeping enough to stay at work. He thought he knew everything about computers, and tried to mess with the ones at work ,and kind of messed them up, but he did not see it! fell asleep at workl started missing days, same old thing.
so, then , he moved in with friends, who had big plans for creating web site business. more like stay up, smoke pot, drink, do whatever drugs, and live in the warehouse like home that his friend owned. never ate, slept all day, was depressed i would think. and i worried my heart out.
their business did not work and he would not get a job, claiming there were none. I always felt in my gut that he did not want to take any time away from his own interests , and that he was going to put off earning his own way if he could. others had always helped him.

he never got the great computer job that he thought he would someday. the ecomony, the way things changed, made it not so easy. but if you do not go to bed, or get up, or do the footwork, you dont find jobs.
he has had many small jobs, but quit them, or got fired, for "being sick- everyone there does it too- they wont care" kind of reasoning- made me crazy.
I am not sure when he really started drinking. he got a girlfriend, let her slip away, then would go forever before another one.
about 5 years ago, i took him in, let him stay for a year. he worked for construction (the only jobs he got were ones that i found, and knew someone there) , and he bought booze, stayed up all night, and wasted much money. would not see that he had a problem- says it is me, as an AC of A, that I had a problem with alcohol, and it was me that made him depressed enough to drink. I am sure that i have been very bad for him, in a lot of ways.
lost that job, got another, lost it, due to drinking, and I did not let him leave the house to go to work( driinking and using my truck) blamed me for that lost job. one job after another, lost due to something like not reading his schedule, or forgetting he had to go in. or not calling to find out if he had to work... so many lost jobs , and when he got a pay check, it was time to drink, and forget all about any kind of life plan. I have never heard him making any kind of normal plans for his life. sigh....

a year later, after he had been kicked out of his dads again, for taking some of his dads pain meds (dad let him when they were together playing comp. games, but step- mom was pissed that he did not have a job) and they dropped him off at an abandoned trailor, with no heat and he had a tent over hisself, to keep in the heat, while he played games , not even online- no service, but sitting there, hungry and depressed, and helpless? why was he so helpless?

so, i went to get him, and he stayed with me for another year of hell- he drank worse than ever- gin, and denial- day after day. one day, he became more destructive than usual, and kicked a hole in the door. broke the front door, drunk . I called the police, and they came and took him in. I slept well for the first night in a long time.
they fined him, turned him out the next day. he walked home. soon after, I had to move away, and not tell him where I was going. broke my heart. then, he took his car and went to my sisters, and she said he could stay if he promised not to drink. well, he broke that promise quickly. blamed her too,for being rediculou/s. he drove to town, parking his car in walmart, or any friends drive, and was homeless. one night, he had a joint that a friend gave him for his birthdya, and got caught with it, in his home/car. they took him in , fined him,for paraphanalia, minute bit of pot, and an open container (his closed beer left from the day before) he was not driving, and had no home, but that is no excuse from the law.
Ipicked him up with my other sister, who suggested a shelter in cincinnati. he went, not really knowing what else to do. left him there, and for a month, he lived that life. I had given him a cell phone, in case he needed to talk. which he did , regularly, making me feel guilty, and hating the world of "Christians" in the shelter, who made them pray before each meal. He did have some good days, where he seemed to appreciate some thing or someone there, who was struggleing too.
a friend went to gethim, and let him stay there, for a few months, which ran out recently. they moved away from him too (amazing) as he would not get a job( had so many reasons- like where am i going to be living, etc) so, I let him come back to my home, for i really am beginnning to see that he cant help his self, somehow.

I took him to a local mental health clinic and the psyc. diagnosed him with bipolar 2 within 20 minutes. he has no mania, and no depressed times that have led to treatment. he says he is not depressed, except because of his situation, no family of his own, no home , no job. his sisters have been very functional , and have nice homes and babies and I am sure that hurts him, to see it. they love him very much, and he gets mad that they do not help him more. heck, he does not even want to go to do the 28 hours monthly, in order to qualify for the foodstamps that he gets, and wont get if he does not do some kind of work (they think he is functional)

any way, I have another appt for him tomorrow, and it is with another psychiatirist. he needs help, and he just thinks he needs help with his nerves, or anxiety. I feel he has a.d.d . I do not think he fits bipolar, but if this doctor thinks so, i am praying that he will be reached somehow.
I do not have hope that he will ever change. That is my fear, but I amtrying to hang on, and hope anyway. He doesnt admit any problems. except for stress, and for a sinus problem that has been making him crazy for years, and he has never even had medical insurance in order to take care of it. i am getting him into university hospital soon, with financial aid, to find out what is going on. I pray they will find something fixable.
I know that I am not the best person to help him, but i want him to eat, get help, have a bed to sleep in, and not be a homeless person who falls through the cracks, just because they have a mental disorder.

I am just so afraid that he will never have any of the things in life that people should have. I am afraid that he will never admit that he needs help. he also would abuse any meds if they would give him a high. he has not been buying gin here, but if time goes on , he would.
he has no one else, and I think that his mental issues have been overlooked for a long time, and that is why he is not functioning. I wish I had recognized it and gotten him help when he was young. how could i not see it?

both parents of mine were alcoholics,and I am used to crazy, and he surely did not seem crazy like they were. life gets hard sometimes. I pray for the wisdom to do the right thing for him.
I am so sorry this is so long. if he was not 38, it would be much shorter, but this is years too late.
thank you , in advance for any encouragement or thoughts in general.
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:55 PM
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Welcome to SR! Hang around a while and read and post often.

First of all, stop saying any of this is your fault! It is not your fault that he is not interested in getting help for his issues. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like he is going to get interested as long as you keep taking him in and making things comfortable for him. He needs to face the consequences of his bad choices. Sure, he may have some issues that would be helped with medication, but what if he doesn't take it? You cannot be his nursemaid for the rest of his life. At some point, he will have to take responsibility for himself.

Sorry if that all sounded harsh, but many of us here have seen this type of situation over and over again. As long as you enable him, he has no reason or incentive to take care of himself.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:01 PM
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Hey,thank you. I know that I am in a mess, and cannot see straight. That is why I am here, and to do the best things that I can, even if it means doing less for him. What ever is the healthiest thing is what I want to do.
I have to be honest, and say that I do not want to give up on him, but I also know that I cannot enable him. but when does a person need help, especially if you think they need mental help?
I am here to learn- thank you again.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:04 PM
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Sorry for your troubles. It sounds like he does have some sort of behavioural dysfunction, whether it's a.d.d or bipolar or whatever. The frustration of this can very easily cause people to stick their head in the sand ie drink or do drugs.

It's just my opinion but I reckon you should try to convince him it's nothing to be ashamed of whatever it is, and therapy or medication is just a treatment for the brain, like insulin is a treatment for diabetes. It can be hard when nearly functioning people are embarrased they don't live up to what they think they should.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:30 PM
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thank you brightline,
that makes sense to me. I know that a lot of his denial is probably due to shame. I have been trying to talk to him about it, about how labels are not really accurate sometimes, and how probably a lot of us have some form of dysfunction, or imbalance, and how help could make a really wondeful difference in his life.
thank you, for your opinion. I am sure that there is a lot of wisdom here, and I shall take full advantage of it, as I have run out of steam.
a lot of folks said , dont help him. and I used to think that he was just an alcoholic, and tried to let him hit bottom. but now I think he needs some help, and it may be that I can get him going in that direction- at least, getting some psychiatric help anyway.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:58 PM
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Well, I wish I was wiser than I am, just my opinion

And you sound like you are excellent support, if a little to generous,but you can never really give up on your closest family really. But attitude to change is essential, in all honesty at this stage I don't think he would change unfortunately, but if he was on some meds that work, it could do wonders. You may want to push for SSRIs, which areanti-deppresants, or somethingsimilar
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:24 PM
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I wish I could tell you what you want to hear, but that would be counterproductive.

My parents are on the road to going through the same things you have. Some of it they have already experienced. They have lost their home and gone through bankruptcy, not to mention putting off taking care of themselves, all in the name of rescuing my sister. And you know where it has gotten them? Nowhere. She is currently hiding from the police, and they still don't have their house, their financial reputation, or anything to retire with, and my dad is not in good health, at all. He won't be able to work long enough to retire at this point, and it's all because they were desperate to help sis, just like you are desperate to help your son.

They have never once given her a chance to hit her bottom. Because of this, her bottom gets deeper and deeper, and I'm starting to wonder if she'll ever change, as long as they have a way to enable her.

I know it's hard to think this through, but if your son is still an addict, he's not thinking clearly, and there is nothing you can say to him to convince him that anything logical is right. We who are not in addiction know that there is no reason to be ashamed of add, adhd, depression, etc, and we know that the logical thing to do is get professional help. But logic does not work on the brain of an addict. They have their own system of "logic." And there is nothing logical about it.

Remember the three "c's": you didn't cause it, you can't change it, and you can't control it. Don't ever lose sight of those three facts.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:38 PM
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The only thing I really want to hear is that there is hope for him- no matter how that is achieved. If he will do better by hitting the bottom, show me how to get out of the way.
But how do we know when a person is mentally unstable enough to need someone caring for them? I hope that we get clear answers tomorrow, from the psychiatrist.
Thank you for sharing, and I am so sorry for your parents. I hope they get a miracle somehow. I would bet that if your sister gets well, that would make them happy, even tho they had lost all.
I often think, if I could make my son whole and happy, with a good life, I would gladly give my own.
I know it does not work that way, tho.

I hope that I get clear answers, so I do not have to guess about choices.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by chicory View Post
The only thing I really want to hear is that there is hope for him- no matter how that is achieved.

Well, there is hope for him, that much I can tell you. There's always hope. But in the meantime, you would actually be helping him more by focusing on you so that you can help him when he is ready.

If he will do better by hitting the bottom, show me how to get out of the way.

You get out of the way by making it harder for him to keep making the choices that lead him to using. If that means he cannot come to you for money, shelter, or anything else until he is clean, then so be it. Sounds harsh, but as long as he has no reason to change, why would he?

But how do we know when a person is mentally unstable enough to need someone caring for them? I hope that we get clear answers tomorrow, from the psychiatrist.

Most, if not all addicts fall into that category already. The issue is not whether or not they need someone caring for them, it's whether or not they care enough to accept the help being offered. They know what to do when they decide they want help. They choose to not seek it.

Thank you for sharing, and I am so sorry for your parents. I hope they get a miracle somehow. I would bet that if your sister gets well, that would make them happy, even tho they had lost all.
I often think, if I could make my son whole and happy, with a good life, I would gladly give my own.
I know it does not work that way, tho.

True, they would be happy if sis got well; but the thing is, she might have gotten well a lot sooner if she had not had so many cushions to land on every time she fell. And if not, at least they would be healthier right now and not be moving for the second time in two years. Either she would have changed by now or not; but them suffering clearly has not helped her, so it was useless. And thanks for the condolences and warm wishes. I love my parents, I just hate seeing others suffer as much as they have, especially when it is, again, counterproductive.

I hope that I get clear answers, so I do not have to guess about choices.
Unfortunately, without learning to put yourself at the top of your priority list, you will always have to guess about making choices. By putting yourself first, believe it or not, you would be giving him more help than you ever could if you keep going on this same path. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

I hope your son is ready to take the help of the doctor. I want to see him get better. And he can. But if going to the psychiatrist does not go the way you want it to, I hope you'll take a step back and think about where you will draw the line- for both of your sakes.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:51 PM
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Also, there is a great section of this forum for friends and family of substance abusers. I hope you'll take some time to read some of the information over there; lots of wisdom from a great group of people.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:02 PM
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My dad is an alcoholic, and I thought had hit rock bottom. He lost his home, his car, his job, was kicked out of my brother's house and came to live with me. He was very depressed as well. I thought I was helping him, I was giving him a place to stay and all I asked was that he not drink in my home.

He continued to drink, and each time I forgave him. He would tell me how depressed he was and as someone who has batteled depression pretty much my whole life, I felt bad for him. The guilt would eat me alive. I was all he had left, how could I just walk away from him?

I found this place, and it was the best thing I could have done. I began to realize that my dad was not going to change because he didn't have to. I kept making it ok for him, I kept 'fixing' it for him. What I thought was help was really hurting him.

One day he got really drunk and that was it. I told him he had a choice, he either goes to rehab or leaves my home. He had 24 hours to chose. For once, I did not feel guilty. I knew that if he ended up on the streets, it was going to be because that was what he chose, not because I just kicked him out.

He tried to talk me out of it, but I held my ground. If I continued to make it ok for him, I was slowly killing him. THAT was guilt I could not live with.

He ended up going to rehab, and while it was hard for him, it ended up being the best thing for him. He was able to work at getting to the root of what drove him to drink and work on his own mental health issues. He was almost 50 when he finally got the help he needed.

I believe there is ALWAYS hope. I'm glad to hear you will be able to discuss this with a psychatrist, hopefully he can help give you some advise and guidance. That doesn't mean your son will be ready to take that advise, but when he is ready you will know where to go with it.

There is an article I really like, that made a huge impression on me in my own recovery with mental health issues, and I've posted it here a few times. Its an article written for people with BPD, but I feel is appropriate for anyone and everyone trying to make change and/or on the road to recovery:

There is hope because no one of us is ever a finished product. There is hope because no matter what you believe right now you do not have to hold to that forever if it is not working for you. Whatever we do or say that causes chaos and pain in our lives we can learn to stop choosing. Change is scary, but, if you can open yourself to the reality that change is what enables us to grow and to heal our pain than you can learn to dream. Once you learn to dream and you begin to envision something other than what you currently know or what you have always known --the way you experience your life and your relationships -- then you can also embrace the reality of hope.

Give hope a chance -- what do you have to lose?
You have everything to gain
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:03 PM
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Thank you for this. I have been going crazy with worry, and grieving too. grieving for my sons lost life. and grieving, in case he is very ill mentally. I believe that there is hope, but as you say, he has to take it. I am holding on to your words, and will be referring back to them, in days ahead. You are so right about me not knowing the right thing, if I am not taking care of me. I guess those were lessons my son should have learned years ago- to respect my boundaries. it just is taking me so long to make them.
I really am sorry that your parents have and are going through so much. It is not fair, is it? It is very very hard, being a parent, especially of an ill one. I heard it said that a parent is only as happy as their saddest child, and it is so, so true. I guess we can make good choices , even if our heart is sad, if it is for the best.

Thank you, and bless you, and your parents and your sister. I hope she awakens,soon.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:11 PM
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Thank you Jessica, for sharing your story with me. How encouraging it is, to hear it. I have felt so alone, and wondered, how can I do this alone?
I also like your quote. It is beautiful.
I have my own issues to work on, and is so hard to try to fix someone, when I am in need of fixing myself. and yes, I know that I cannot fix anyone else. I just want to do what I should - whatever helps.
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