beachdog19

I just started working the steps with a sponsee and am wondering how to approach Step 2.

He was raised Catholic, in the church and in Catholic schools, his mom is very active in the Church and is one of these women who would take in a homeless person if they knocked on the door but is very critical of her own son. Lots of God-talk but not much God-walk in her own life, IMO. (But what do I know? LOL).

He believes in God, I know he does, that's not the issue as it is with a lot of people who approach this step. But he has a ton of wreckage from his relapse (legal, financial, relationship, kids) and seems to believe that God has forsaken him in some way.

I suggest prayer to him often, but I'm not sure he's feeling the conscious contact -- having a hard time setting aside self-pity, I think.

Any thoughts?

I know some people work 1-2-3 quickly (I did) and get on to Step 4, but in his case I am trying to make sure the foundation is well set. I am suggesting some discussion and writing for Step 1 about powerlessness, and am looking for similar advice about Step 2. I am having trouble with someone who believes in God but that God might not love him back.

Thanks in advance, love this Forum.

JeremiahS

Sounds like me, and like the 12x12 says about this fellow full of faith and alcohol, problem was in the quality of faith not the quantity.

Childish, co-dependent attitude towards God who is just supposed to solve all his problems and let him coast through life on his own terms. Never grew up, Spirituality like a kid who thinks life is like permanent summer vacation with a big Parent in the sky to handle all the real responsibility and bandage things up when he comes home with scraped knees.

The world doesn't work like that, people don't work like that, and God doesn't work like that. And until he rightly relates himself to God he will find it impossible to rightly relate himself to people and the world around him, will continue to get hurt, and will continue to wallow in self pity and despair. A fellow like this will continue to get drunk like a kid throws a temper tantrum when life doesn't treat him 'fair'.

Might be a serious mature fellow on the outside who would be offended at what I described, but deep inside, that's a rough description of the drunken faithful.

keithj

I've worked with quite a few guys in that boat. A superficial 'belief', but zero connection and faith. It can be difficult for someone to make that transition.

I try to go with a real simple approach. Set Aside Prayer for everything they think they know about the Steps and about god so that they can have a new experience with that power. That seems vital in my experience. Then we look at the formal directions for Step 2. Do you know believe that there exists a power greater than yourself, and go no further with their conception of God. Just stop right there with belief in something and be open to the experience.

They have to be sincere about the requirement to lay aside prejudice. From what I've seen, it helps to give up any pre-existing notions of what God is or how that power works, and start fresh with the bare minimum requirements.

Pagekeeper

I know a woman who had this problem. She thought God had abandoned her and she was angry at God. She shares in meetings how her sponsor looked at her and said, "You need to fire that God and find a new one."

She works a great program and has been sober for a long time.

JeremiahS

Big Book told me to fire my attitude, not God.
Worked for me.

Mark75

Maybe if you can present to your sponsee the perspective that it was he who forsake God, not the other way around... And, that God always loved him, whether he returned the feeling or not...

Just a thought.

Mark

beachdog19

Wow, such great advice everyone, thanks!

Ananda

it was sugestted to me that just because i couldn't feel the love or care of a an HP didn't mean it wasn't there....It's one of those scewed perceptions i have....

If you tell me you love me, I don't hear you
If you tell me twice, I don't believe
No matter how much you tell me, it is never enough

Same for an HP as it is with people in my life....

My sponsor told me "god's already got you" and for some reason I took comfort in that as I came into sobriety...

God is first on my resentment list....but i understand today that my HP doesn't expect me to get well all at once, and that i can connect to an HP despite all the garbage that stands in my way....I think thats what they call god's grace.....

intention

I was listening to Bob D on XA speakers a while ago and he was talking about this. Saying that those who already believe in God can have more difficulty working these steps. He said something along the lines of Keith about laying aside prejudice. I think he says that he gets his sponsees to list all prejudices that they have about God - the good and the bad ones and goes from there.

It's a very good listen if you are interested. Search for XA speakers website and then search for How To Recover. It is probably in disc 3,4 or 5.

beachdog19

That's a very good way to put it, Mark, thanks. I suggested to him that God loves him and always has, but self-pity seems to be in his way. He can see a tiny bit of grace, that he is sober, but still feels like his world is collapsing.

Some of us get here and our lives instantly get better -- it was like that for me; I was young and my exterior wreckage wasn't that bad. Other people have to deal with a lot of hard "stuff" in early sobriety, and gratitude doesn't come easy.

Alike

Ask him about the God of his understanding and ask him if he believes God could or would if sought - Ask him if he believes in the 3 pertinent ideas of A.A. and what they mean to him - inform him even the devil believes in God and it does not matter unless one relies on God.
Only within can one believe it saddens my heart one has to come first then come too before understanding that no human power can help him just deviate him from his own soul /personal willingness.

timbo555

Beachdog,

My experience has been that every time I started to look askance at a sponsee's spirituality, or felt I needed to "do something" about it, my own Spirituality suffered. A good friend once said, "scratch any alcoholic, and there's a big shiny co-dependent underneath". I am a mere conduit for the message, not an interpreter or, God forbid, a fixer.

Nor does the book say a lapsed catholic has to have any kind of conscious contact with God before moving on to and through the third step. The greatest gift of this program is my freedom to doubt God, something my Catholicism never allowed. (The perfect faith of Abraham? that's a pretty big burden for a six year old! You'd drink too if you had my God!)

Nor is it anyone's responsibility in any way to facilitate such, or oversee such, or be the arbiter of such. This is HIS recovery. He will demonstrate his faith, courage, integrity willingness, humility, love, etc. by working the steps and INTERNALIZING them through practice. Or not And the God of his understanding will be revealed by degrees as his life unfolds before him. Or not. Either way I stay sober, so it's all good.

"We Agnostics" P. 52:

"When we became alcoholics, crushed by a self-imposed crises we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is or He isn’t. What was our choice to be?"

"We Agnostics" P. 46:

We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. “Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?” As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.*

It wasn't until I gave myself permission to doubt that I came to believe, and if I waited to have faith bfore I did my second and third step, I'd stll be drinking. My sponsor made sure that I had all the freedom neccessary to become truly free.


All Big Book quotes taken from Alcoholics Anonymous 1st Ed.

shaun00

i had a similar experience...
God was used as a threat when i was a kid...
So i bump into step 2, full of twisted perception.....childhood fears and a mother that still insisted i was reading from the wrong book...even today.

Luckily for me i had a great mentor/sponsor whom gave me plenty of time...
He suggested that the perception i had may have become distorted.
and that maybe there was a forgiving, loving god out there if i sought him.
in other words "pick your own concept".

So for me i turned away from a fixed religous god........to a loving forgiving God......i couldnt have moved foward without that change of concept..but it wasnt easy...

looking back i have deep respect for my sponsor whom was sensitive and patient while i worked through some "god" conflict.
step 2 is a real big deal for some........i try to mirror my sponsors approach when working with newcomers on step 2.

thats my experience.

Alike

I have a question?

Keeping PERSONAL WILLINGNESS in mind -When I read step two
it states as UNDERSTOOD not UNDERSTAND.

Its this the difference between God (the message of A.A.) and the outside sponsorship system in A.A. ?

Just a question please be fearless sponsees

Ashleighk0120

I have my sponsees write out what their god is and what their god isnt and that is the power greater than themselves that they are willing to turn their will and life over to