new here, wondering about alcohol related dementia

Old 02-19-2010, 03:03 AM
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new here, wondering about alcohol related dementia

hi there folks. i'm new here. it's very late and i've been by myself for a few days sick with tonsilitus. my sleep is all messed up and i've had a lot of time to think. my father had a crisis a few weeks ago that landed him in the psych ward. now it seems he may have dementia. he's very young and there are parts of him that may be forever lost or forever altered.

it seems to me like a very hopeless situation. i'm not hopeless about too many things in my life but i can only pity him and try to not ruminate. which i've had plenty of time to do due to the tonsilitus. of course.

i wrote a big long post explaining the whole thing and promptly lost it. so suffice it to say that i was on the phone with him when he was in the midst of crisis mode, and in that conversation he told me it would be the last we would ever have. i had to prepare myself for that possibility. now he's in the hospital (possibly in route to rehab for 30 days after psych eval and neurology, but he can't even go there if he's too deeply affected). my mother asked if i wanted to give him a call there. but i'm concerned that i'm not ready for that, especially if he barely is aware of where he is.

but i don't know. if it would be a comfort to him i feel like i should do it. he doesn't have anyone visiting him right now, his parents are too old to make the drives. my poor mother who has been trying to finalize her divorce and start her own life has had to deal with his care in the interim because no one else is around to do it. i live far away. she's exhausted. i'm exhausted.

anyone out there dealt with this in a loved one? what can i expect? how will i interact with him in the future? i could really use some perspective on the nature of this condition. i can't imagine how recovery works for someone who has gone so far rock bottom that he doesn't have the brain cells to realize he's at rock bottom anymore.

i feel a lot better getting that out before i get some sleep so thanks for reading out there! i feel glad to have found this. i hope to gain a new understanding from you and hope to help in whatever way i'm able in return. good night!

p.s. clearly i'm exhausted, i forgot to mention crucially: my father has gone on this downward spiral in his life due to drinking far too much alcohol for far too long. he was highly functioning for many years. its only been the last few years he's been through treatment attempts. this is the first time he's been under state custody and in psychiatric care. his treatment isn't necessarily being resisted but it's not really voluntary either. so his brain damage is due to alcohol abuse and my main concern is that he has to treat the brain damage and the addiction concurrently which seems impossible. how can one gain clarity when one's brain isn't functioning the same way? the two conditions seem to blur together and it's hard to tell which causes which behavior and symptoms. confusing all around. anyway...hope that makes a bit more sense now.

Last edited by classact; 02-19-2010 at 03:10 AM. Reason: duh forgot crucial part of the whole thing
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:28 AM
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mine's sort of like that, too

This is hard... I'm in part of the same boat, in case you've been following my sad story.

My dad is 90 and was recently hospitalized after a minor fall. He's confused, and for several days, the docs decided he was exhibiting signs of alcohol withdrawal. I was skeptical at first, but having learned a bit more, I think they're right.

Yesterday, he was released from the hospital and sent to a skilled-nursing rehab place across the street. I haven't seen him in a few days, but they told me on the phone that he was too confused to sign his admission paperwork yesterday.

I'm stuck with having to be involved in his care, even though after the ordeal I went through with my mother's death spiral in 2007-8, I don't have much left. And even though, I'm sorry to say, I really don't like my Dad very much, at this point. Our relationship is badly strained, and to be honest with you guys here in the anonymity of an on-line forum, I just want the whole thing to be over -- the best news I could possibly hear would be a phone call informing me that his balky heart had finally stopped working and allowed him to quietly expire in his sleep. That's not a good thought, but it's there.

There is no happy ending to this -- there can't be one. So ... well, I don't even really have any positive thoughts for you, other than that you're not alone, in your situation....

T
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Old 02-19-2010, 06:49 AM
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Classact, I don't have good news for you I'm afraid. I've now had two therapists and one neurologist tell me that once a person (like my mother or your father) develop last stage alcoholism related dementia, even if they stop drinking the damage is done. And worse yet, even if they stop drinking, the condition will continue to worsen.

if it would be a comfort to him i feel like i should do it.
Many people here already know of my crusade against the "shoulds". I would ask you, rather than "should," do you WANT to call him? Do you WISH to call him? Would it be in your best interest to call him? It doesn't sound like it to me. He has taken care of himself (not well, mind you, but he has) and you must take care of you. If you caught yourself snorting with derision as an answer to those three questions, then there is no "should." You need to take care of you, and that means not doing things that are not in your best interest or that you don't want to do.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but he got himself there. Where do you want to take yourself?
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:30 AM
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thanks for your responses even if they aren't necessarily cheery, because honestly that's why i'm here. i'm so tired of my friends trying to make it better but since i moved away from my hometown they're all i have around me. it's the only message i've been receiving lately and it's not terribly useful.

ginger, good question! i guess i haven't thought too much about what i need or where i want to go because mostly i feel ok and going in the right direction. i have days where i'm in a slump but i've been dealing with this for long enough that the situation is no longer surprising to me. i feel like i know my coping mechanisms for dealing with him (more like, choosing to not deal with him) but he keeps throwing curveballs that complicate the whole mess and make me rethink my relationship with him.

the two days after my father threatened to kill himself or attempted or whatever you might call it, i sat at home watching dexter and eating coffee cake and ice cream for breakfast. i know, kind of a weird combo, serial killers and crumb cake lol. but it was honestly a useful bit of hibernation for me to just sit with my feelings and not feel bad about having them. i returned to work, started socializing again, and i've been feeling much more in control of my response to this situation. basically, i feel fine with myself and that's what brings on the guilt more i guess. if i'm ok, then what's preventing me from helping him in whatever way i can? maybe the answer is that i'm ok because i've disengaged myself from him and so i should continue that path.

however, i just worry. he hasn't actually gotten himself there, he was ordered by the court. so i don't think he has a system really in place. most distressing to me is the fact that he will not be admitted to the rehab facility if they determine that his symptoms are from dementia and not withdrawal because they are unable to manage his care. he clearly needs psychiatric, medical, and alcohol abuse care but there doesn't seem to be any program that the doctors can suggest that is prepared to deal with all these issues at once. so basically, i talked my father off of a ledge just so he can sober up, be miserable, and jump off again. i wish there was a treatment plan, so i could feel better about the future, instead of waiting for inevitably bad test results.

trombone, i have been reading some of your posts and your words resonate with me. thank you for sharing this with all of us! i absolutely understand the impulse to just want it to be over. a few days before his attempt, my mom was talking to me about how difficult it has been to finalize their divorce and she made a crack about how it would be all easier if he just died. i laughed at the time, even though i knew it was a real possibility, because honestly it would be easier. but then he very nearly did. he wanted to end his life, and i begged him not to. i guess he got too drunk to actually finish it, and that's what landed him in state care. until that point, my father's death in an abstract sense felt like a relief. but for some reason the thought that he could deliberately take his life really scared me.

the weird thing is, it's not like he hasn't been killing himself slowly all this time anyway. so...i don't know why i felt such an impulse to save him. i can't imagine being on the phone with him that night and NOT telling him to turn his car around. i'm glad i had a chance to try to show the value of his life to him instead of not even trying to contact him. i was relieved when the cops found him. but in those moments when we didn't know where he was, it was very black and white. if he died, it was bad. if he lived, it was good.

now it's all very grey, because what quality of life does he have now? he's 53 and could go on with this dementia for another 50 years. it's just sad to see him look sicker than his elderly cancer stricken mother. sometimes i feel like when i saved his life, i just extended his suffering. if i knew that he could at least have the possibility of coming to a stable place, i'd know how to proceed. now i'm so scared of the possibilities i just want to pretend like he doesn't exist.

i know that may seem like a way to disengage, but to me it seems like just avoidance and denial. i want to be honest with myself and the situation. maybe the only way i can do that is to call him. just not right now! i'm just scared that if i don't call him now, i may never get a chance to. or i may never get a chance to show my support for his treatment.

maybe i should just send flowers?
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:41 AM
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one more thought: when my dad was highly functioning, he was just plain mean to everyone to try and deflect from his disease. it was really easy to disengage because there was no attempt to treat his alcoholism and because he was inflicting fresh wounds on me. i just simply didn't like him, couldn't deal with him, stopped trusting him, stopped talking to him.

it's harder now that he's barely functioning. he's so demented he's almost sweet. but he's also extremely confused. and who knows, possibly dangerous because of that confusion. he's no longer hurting me, but i guess in not engaging with him i'm protecting myself from that possibility? it's harder to protect myself when the threat isn't as immediate as it was when i was a vulnerable kid. i'm still young but i'm an adult and i live by myself and i've traveled the world. i'm no longer scared of him, just scared for him. that's what makes me not as focused on my own self preservation.
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Old 02-19-2010, 01:09 PM
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Hey classact, welcome to SR

basically, i feel fine with myself and that's what brings on the guilt more i guess.
Ginger crusades against "shoulds". I crusade against toxic guilt. You're not someone who drank their life into mental illness, so why should you FEEL BAD for making GOOD decisions for yourself? Doesn't make sense, does it? And yet we (ACoAs) feel it anyway.

What do you think you deserve, classact? Do you deserve to feel shi**y about your life because you made better choices?

i wish there was a treatment plan, so i could feel better about the future, instead of waiting for inevitably bad test results.
So you do know what you want... and to me, it sounds like you don't want the guilt anymore. You want to know you've finally done enough to not feel guilty anymore. You're not even asking to be happy - just relieved.

Let me ask: how are you even going to know when you've done enough? Is it when he acknowledges treatment? Is it when your relationship is healthy again? Or do you keep trying until you've burnt out? You're not superman, so what is your limit?

sometimes i feel like when i saved his life, i just extended his suffering
You can't be responsible for another grown adult. Repeat: you can't be responsible for another grown adult. YOU didn't extend his suffering. HE did. It was a consequence of the choices HE made to drink. You can try and bear the brunt of those consequences for him, but it is NOT changing the fact that he made the choices that got him to where he is today.

Take a gander in the "Friends and Family of Alcoholics" forum. ACOAs are not so far off from spouses of alcoholics. Typically we take up the challenge of rehabilitating our alcoholic, catching them when they fall, cleaning up their mess, and denying our role as well as our self-neglect. We are not alone in having these thoughts. We are all struggling with what is it that WE haven't done yet to fix our alcoholic?

The answer: alcoholism is a progressive disease. We can't "fix" the alcoholism because unless the alcoholic chooses to stop picking up the bottle the disease only continues to get worse. Point blank: you are not and have not ever been in a position to single-handedly save his life. That answer has always been on your dad - not you. The only person who can save the alcoholic is the alcoholic.

It their choice. Doesn't mean we have to like it, but we need to recognize that it's still their choice.

Keep posting, classact. This process of finally reaching out about it is unique to everyone, and although not everything you hear may jive, we have a pretty awesome motto here: take what you like and leave the rest. And do keep posting - we all benefit from the discussion of these "family secrets".
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:56 AM
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Great post Dothi!

if i'm ok, then what's preventing me from helping him in whatever way i can?
I'm okay - what's preventing me from helping every single person I can? ACoAs have bad tendencies to be "fixers". We want to fix everyone around us (except ourselves of course, that's just crazy talk).

My husband once told me (in relation to societal issues we were discussing) "You can't save them all." I remind myself of that. I have a general rule that I will attempt to help someone under the following circumstances:

1. It will truly help them and not just enable them to continue whatever death spiral they're in, and
2. It is at little expense to myself (emotionally, financially etc - expense being defined rather broadly).

In your case, I'm guessing that even though your dad's not harmful to you NOW, there is probably still a lot of old feelings (and quite probably some new ones) that he dredges up for you. This means that helping him is detrimental to you. Just when you start finding your balance, you try to help him "because I can" and end up throwing yourself back in the pit again.

Obviously, I'm just guessing here, but through my filters and where I'm sitting, I'm guessing the thing that's preventing you from helping is that you have things running smoothly in your life and you'd really very much rather not go having all that thrown into chaos again.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:13 PM
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thank you for going further into these concepts with me. shoulds and guilts...i'm going to start noticing them more in my daily life. your questions have actually brought me a lot of mental clarity. i never really took the time to evaluate any of those feelings, and was fixating on everything around me instead. duh of course i was feeling anxious and hopeless. i've been having trouble getting out of this funk so thank you for the healthy dose of reality.

dothi, thanks for welcoming me to the community, and for emphasizing the importance the open honest environment that you all encourage. seriously, i appreciate hearing the ideas that "don't jive" with my present thinking because those are the ideas that make me more aware. i'm sure to continue having questions and not understanding things so i hope you all can bear with me! you also reminded me that i should educate myself more on the facts of alcoholism because i think i may have been misinformed about some things.

ginger, you're totally right, my life is far from perfect but i'm starting to gain my independence and i have to defend that. i have to stop being so "why me" about it and start taking measures against the chaos taking over my life. i try to be as open a person as i can be in my personal life, because i know i carry some trust issues from childhood. so i had never thought of it as healthy to put up a boundary around myself before. it's becoming clear that those boundaries are not only healthy but necessary, and it doesn't make me an unloving person.

i haven't been to any kind of 12 step meeting before, mainly because i've been so far removed from the situation at home that i've been able to manage. but maybe some of my concepts of the world are more warped than i thought and it seems like they rule some of my thoughts and actions more than i realized. i feel like i came here hoping for someone to give me a reason to believe in with my dad's recovery. and i only just now realized that that was a vain pursuit, because i can't know what's going to happen to him in the future. i have to learn how to deal with that uncertainty, because that's the reality.

so now i'm considering going to a meeting. what kind of meeting should i be participating in? i have a few reservations because i know that most of these support groups emphasize belief in a higher power and i am decidedly atheist. will i be asked to change my belief system by participating in these discussions?
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:32 AM
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Hello there classact, and pleased to "meet" you

Originally Posted by classact View Post
... i have a few reservations because i know that most of these support groups emphasize belief in a higher power and i am decidedly atheist. will i be asked to change my belief system by participating in these discussions?
Some do emphasize a higher power. Some don't. The only ones that promote a specific religion are the ones funded by a specific church. Most are self-funded and have no religious agenda.

The largest self-help group is al-anon, they do have a higher power but they are perfectly fine with each person having their own version, or none at all. Here's some info on what the meetings are like

First Steps to Al-Anon Recovery

Another organization is CODA (Codependents Anonymous). They're a lot "softer" on the higher power thing.

In the larger cities there's ACoA. Adult Children of Alcoholics. They have the widest variety of meetings, some are strictly atheist, others halfway, others very religious.

In some places al-anon and ACoA haver merged, so you'll have al-anon meetings for adult children. And in other places they have become so specialized they created sub-programs for specific needs, such as ISA (Incest Survivors Anonymous)

It's a lot like going to a buffet. You can "shop around" different meetings and find the ones that have exactly what you like. And if you don't like _any_ of them you can find Therapists who organize their own "group therapy", although these are a little pricier.

Mike
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