RomeosMama

Step 1, not so hard when I first said the words out loud. I am powerless, I have no control.

Step 2 "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves
could restore us to sanity."

This is a tough one for me...I have always had issues with religion. I grew up with parents who were Jehovah's Witnesses. You live each day so that you will end up in Paradise when you die?? So, you never really live for today, always looking at how much better things will be when you are dead. This seems backwards to me. In our house other religion was wrong and those people where going to hell for sure. So, just basically believing in a "higher power" was unacceptable. I don't agree with organized religion, I am beginning to believe there has to be some sort of higher power somewhere. Only took me 41 years to get to that! Now the issue is giving in and praying for help...

FanofJoeMcQ

I am part Cherokee indian. I 'misunderstood' the 12 steps to equal christian secular religion early on also.

Its not. I was told that as long as its a power greater than me other THAN alcohol or ME....
so I chose to believe in the 'belief' of my sponsor. I did the 'believe that she believed'.... she was a Buddhist....it got me thru until I found a HP that I now call my 'Great Spirit/Creator' and its inside me not inside a church.
Faith got bigger and stronger and has not ever let me down since I took that leap and kept moving through the steps back in 1996.

So glad you asked. Its important to talk it out. I don't 'pray' like an organized religion person. I do reflect and speak out loud when alone to my creator and over the days/weeks/months/years...it brought me closer to trying the prayers suggested in the Big Book. It was a slow trust process and I am living proof it works.

My first request after step two to my creator was "show me the way, place the people in my path, open my ears and heart"....

I hope this helps.

CarolD

Welcome to our SR 12 Step Study Forum

Please do come down to our main page and
share there too ...when you have time...

freya

It seems to me from reading your post, that it is not Step 2 with which you have issues -- it is organized religion.

The 12 Steps are about having a Spiritual experience, not a religious one. (Now, clearly some people do find religion to be conducive to their spirituality, but it appears that you are not going to be one of them -- at least not at this time in your life.) From what you've written, it feels to me like you pretty much understand, intellectually, that there is a difference between the 2, but that in your heart and soul, because of your early negative experiences with organized religion, you are still equating the 2 and finding yourself with some resistance to and confusion about spirituality because of that.

I guess, how I see it is that religion is pretty much a group thing and spirituality is very, very much an individual thing. And there are clearly pros and cons with both. I mean, if a certain religious dogma and practice works for you, then that's great because you pretty much have a ready-made way to fulfill at least some of your spiritual needs. But that same "ready made way" can also become a crutch and/or an excuse not to stay present and current and vital in your relationship with HP -- because, as long as you follow the rules of whatever religion it is you are "practicing," you can look just fine spiritually to others and even to yourself if that kind of denial is what you want to do.

On the other hand, if you decide to "go it alone" (Well, not totally alone, because you will find plenty of support for this in the rooms, but what you won't find is anyone to tell you exactly and specifically what to do.) and put together a spiritual practice that works for you, then that is clearly going to be, upfront, a lot more work....but it is also going to be something that you know is right for you and that you are totally free to modify so that it grows and changes and develops as you do.

I myself have been one of the go-it-aloners in this regard, and it took me awhile to put together a spiritual practice that works for me. And, of course, that work is on-going because my relationship with HP is on-going. But it has been very much worth the work, because it is definitely the foundation of my recovery.

Anyway, before this becomes a book, here are a couple of links that might be helpful. The first one is my Step 2 story and the second is to a really good thread from last year that discussed HP and spirituality in general:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2063310

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-thoughts.html

Good luck with this -- It really is worth the work!

freya

ICantHeCan

First and foremost, RomeosMama..., welcome to SR! :ghug3

As for the 2nd step it was difficult for me to swallow too because of the religious influences from my childhood: my mother was raised baptist but switched to catholicism and then to methodist after she married my father; my [maternal] grandmother was baptist. Needless to say there was a lot of "you're going to be punished" for being bad, etc. as a result. Also I was religiously "confused"... I was baptised catholic & confirmed methodist. I now know that that confusion was pure spiritual bankruptcy!

There were two things that helped me move beyond that God of my childhood... (1) "a power greater than myself" and (2) my home group. My home group which was actually members from all the other meetings I attended because there was one meeting nightly in the towns surrounding where I lived -- that was it! So we all basically travelled around to get our daily "medicine" or meeting in and as a result it wasn't uncommon for the oldtimers to know where newcomers were at in their recovery. They often told us newcomers that that power greater than ourselves could be the group for the time being while they would point us to the chapter, "We Agnostics," and for this hopeless alcoholic that worked!

Over time that "power greater than myself" has evolved and appears to do so continuously. My understanding of that Power is far more than my home group. Although that Power does speak to me through my home group along with other people in and out of the program. Its a Power that, yes, I chose to call God along with HP and Spirit but it is not the God of my childhood. Its a God founded in spirituality, not religion, for they are two completely different things.

As a matter of fact, around here for those that struggle with a Power founded in religion versus one founded in spirituality, we say: religion is for those who think they know hell, spirituality is for those who have been to hell and back!

__________________________________________________ __________
**Quotes & paraphrases from Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st Edition.

sugErspun

There is step 2, from your own words...Step 2 doesn't ask anyone to believe anything specific. It also asks that you don't be deterred by spiritual terms and be honest in what they mean to you (not to your parents or a church).
Lastly, it states that this power can only be found in one place...which I found to be true as well.

Step 2 is not "We believe" it's "Came to believe"...

If you are beginning to think there might be something powerful enough to overcome your alcoholism (which at Step 1 you admitted could not be overcome)...then you have a foundation and meet the requirment for step 2.

rockworm

+1 sugERspun.

I see step 2 as answering the following: "Do I now believe, or am I willing to believe in a power greater than myself?" That is it! If I can answer yes to this, then I have completed step 2.

I think we over complicate the steps. Sometimes I am at a step 2 meeting and people share about God or a Higher Power. However, the Big Book tells me that my higher power will be revealed to me as I take the steps. At this stage I do not even have to know what the higher power is, just that it may exist. Therefore, all I need is willingness. That is it.

wiscsober

Very well put.

I will keep this in mind through out the day.

UncleMeat69

If you have attended any AA meetings have you seen
other members who are sober and have something that
helps them maintain their sobriety, long term ? Maybe
something that you don't have yourself ?

DayTrader

I've got over 6 yrs sober in AA and still have "issues" with most of the steps.....especially 1 and 2.

I believed in some sort of God but was equally convinced He/She/It wasn't going to help me. Hadn't my experience up till then shown that God was only to be found in other ppl's lives? With that belief, how could I "come to believe" that God was going to come to MY rescue?

Over time, I accepted step 2 but I did so in phases. At first, it was merely a willingness to believe (later, perhaps) that there was some power who "could" fix me. Later, I began to define what my ideal "God" would look like, act like, and be like: totally cool, always loved me, forgiving, anxious to help me (just "willing" to help me didn't seem strong enough for me...I wanted a God who desired to help me), able to see into the future, would always have my back, would set things up for my best interest even when I didn't understand what he/she/it was doing, wasn't a "punishing" God, let everyone into heaven, etc etc etc...... Last of all I started to see my own "insanity." Honestly, I didn't see much until I'd been through the steps a couple times and had learned more on writing a more complete and honest 4th step inventory.

In a catch-22, the more of my own insanity I saw......the less I believed that God was going to help me out of it. It was like I'd grow in belief, see more craziness, then lose some faith. It was 2 steps forward and 1.5 back. Slow progress for me...especially when I believed I'd be some sort of step-working guru and WOULD be the first AA to work them perfectly.....

Where I'm at now....6+ yrs of looking at, pondering and trying to apply this and the other steps: intellectually and in my head I totally believe in a HP and accept all those glowing things I wrote about MY HP above. When I look at my actions throughout the day......I see that I don't "really" believe. Over and over I don't trust God. Over and over I try to run the show. Over and over I'm convinced He's nowhere to be found. Over and over I choose actions and behaviors that are more indicative of someone with no God in their life than someone walking a spiritual path..... So, on my most recent run through the steps, the truth for me is all I can say is that I'm "willing to believe that a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity." I can't say I truly believe when it's just head-knowledge and when so many of my actions are contrary to that supposed belief.

......and that's where I am after 18year of Catholic schools, church every Sunday, church with school (monthly at least) and really NOT having any "religious issues" other than not really buying into some of the Catholic "rules" and beliefs (like the deal with Heaven that you mentioned......I just don't buy into that one).

Chapter 5 starts out with some info about even those with "grave" mental and emotional disorders have better than average chances of recovering from alcoholism (which, for me, means alcoholic drinking + alcoholic acting/living) IF they have the capacity to be honest.

When I quit trying to give myself a letter grade on the steps (and, of course, I'm usually shooting for all A's........and I rarely give them to myself) and just surrender to where I AM with the step and accept that reality......I find that I DO end up growing. When I stop and try to get this step or that step perfect......I rarely grow at all.

And finally, steps 4 and 5 (inventory and "confession" steps) and steps 10 & 11 (more inventory, directives on how to run through a day and prayer/meditation) really helped me with my 2nd step. I'd bet you might find them helpful too.

wiscsober

Yes and Yes

tomsteve

I have tyo agree whit the mention that the problem lies in believe in organized religion.
but I read step 2 is already happening in this statement:
" I am beginning to believe there has to be some sort of higher power somewhere."

coming to believe was the start for me. then as I worked the steps, I fully believed.

sugarbear1

I "came to believe" as a result of working through step 7 and it grew as I continued to work on the rest of the steps and continues today through my daily meditations......

I only had a willingness to believe, to set aside my old beliefs, and a willingness to stop insisting there was no god (everything I don't understand is grouped together as god) and from there, I worked through those steps.

FlyerFan

Nothing in that step says anything about religion. GOD can mean Group of Drunks. That group is more powerful than you are individually for example. that was the way I started out anyhow, and it worked until I was able to find my own connection.

markz

Step one involves 41 pages of reading.
Its a little more then unmagable/powerless.
Ask WHY WHY WHY WHY?

Step 2 is just a willingness to believe in something other then yourself, that is all that is required to make a beginning.

You dont have to believe in anything at this step.
That belief comes later on as you work these steps in order.

Thats the whole purpose of the big book and working these steps is to get a higher power of your own understanding that will help you through. Then in order to keep it you must give it away, step 12.

It took me 5 years of going to meetings everyday to even get a glimpse of step one. It wasnt until I did a few big book studies and listened to Joe and Charlie tapes that I understood what was meant. No one ever said much on step one, there might have been the odd fellow. But when the TV is full of noise and there is that one clear spot on the top right corner. All you see and hear is the noise. Much like an AA meeting. That is why meetings dont keep no one sober. Its working these steps on a daily basis, being close to our HP, helping others!

Wish you the best. I know its tough to get a firm grasp on these steps. You just have to read and understand the Big Book. Once you understand and people start saying wonky stuff, you can sweep that aside. Like 90 meetings in 90 days, well what happens on day 91? you are cured? you graduate? I never quite understand why people say that one. Or Fake it until you make it, but you must be completely and rigorously honest.

Got to know whats garbage and whats gold.

FlyerFan

You don't even have to read anything at all to do step 1. Just look up to the sky and say "help!"

Fly N Buy

Glad you're here!

Keep coming back,
It hurts, then it works........

markz

...Well if you dont know about the obsession or the allergy or cravings. Then you do not know step 1. You will drink!