is he lying?

Old 11-12-2009, 09:22 AM
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is he lying?

It may be a stupid question. How can you ever believe something a recovering alcoholic says? Can you ever?

My RAF lives alone up north. He had beer in the house the other day. He took a picture of a trophy he won from a chili contest, and in the picture there was an unopened can next to the trophy, along with his cigarettes and skoal. He insists that it was for cooking. (Some of you are probably shaking your head right now, already knowing that this is a dead end. I am very new to this). When asked about it, he screams that it was for cooking, and to get off his back about it, stop bothering him. But how frustrated do we get, even as non alcoholics, when we tell someone something and they don't believe us? How angry does a "normal" person get when they realize that they aren't trusted, that their word is meaningless? I get pretty frustrated, I know that for a fact. I've raised my voice a few times the same way he did in that situation.

I tried to explain why I have trouble believing him. He was an active alcoholic for 16 something years, and during that time if I tried to address anything regarding his drinking, I was met with the same responses: yelling, denial, lying, and anger. After 1 year of sobriety (which I have to take his word on, he lives in another state) it worries me that he feels comfortable enough to purchase beer and have it in the house. He feels comfortable enough to go to bars and hang out, drinking diet coke. He risked his probation, his freedom, and everything he has accomplished so far to have a couple of beers in the house because he wanted to make his favorite chili recipe. What if his probation officer showed up for a house walk through, and found the cans? Jail, that's what. (Of course, he was speechless when I presented him with that "what if" situation). He's upset and offended that we don't believe him, and wants to quit talking about it. When we ask if he drank any of the beer, (me and my sister have both talked to him about it) his response is, "It was for cooking! What difference does it make? you don't believe me anyway! Stop bothering me about it!".

Obviously I would know if he had returned to his old drinking habits; he could barely form sentences then, slurring and stuttering. He is not like that now. Up until 4 days ago, I had no reason to think he was involved with alcohol at all! But now I find myself thinking, what if he "just has a few now and then", thinking he has it all under control? If he is comfortable to have it in the house, and be around it, does that automatically mean that he would be comfortable enough to think that he could handle a couple of sips?

I have never been in his shoes, and I know there is a HUGE difference here, but I have recently quit smoking, after doing it on and off for 10 years. It would be STUPID of me to have cigarettes in the house. Period. It would be stupid of me to think that it was okay to have them there, for whatever bull**** reason, telling myself that I was strong enough to resist the temptation, that even if I had a bad day, or a fight with my boyfriend, I would be strong enough not smoke one. That would mean I am still in denial of the seriousness of my addiction, and that I needed more help. (am i answering my own question here?)

Are there alcoholics that think this way, and are actually successful in staying sober? What if he's telling the truth? How do I get past the feeling that not believing him is just going to hurt our relationship more? If he is truly being honest about not drinking any of it, and is staying sober, I want to support and be there for him, and continue with our plans of him moving down here by me, and helping him start a new life. It's just his casual outlook on it scares the hell out of me. Which brings me to my initial question.

How can you ever believe something a recovering alcoholic says?
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:53 AM
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Past behavior is often the best predictor of future behavior.

All the alcoholics in the world aside, what has been your past experience with him?
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:54 PM
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Hmmm ... perhaps you could trust but verify him on a couple of things that aren't of much consequence.

This could allow him to begin building up a track record of honesty with you. If he lies about the small stuff, then he certainly can't be trusted on the big stuff.

With that said, when you say he is recovering, it really comes down to whether he is actively working on his recovery (and I mean really working hard on it) or just not drinking.

Alcohol was our solution to our deeper problems. If he isn't working on fixing the deeper problems, the cycle usually repeats.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:38 PM
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Hi Kitty

I look at your posts and it reminds me of my first few postings here. I doubted myself, had second thoughts, analysed everything over and over again, wondered whether things were really that bad or whether was I over reacting?

What ala-non has tought me in my short time, is that I had to take the focus off my mom and use my energy's being good to myself. Have you looked in to going to a meeting yet? I would strongly recommend it.

Sometimes you just have to trust your own instinct.

Trust me it WILL get easier x
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:22 PM
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I don't know if he's lying or not, but typically us drunks wouldn't put a beer in a picture if we were hiding our "drinking". Maybe he is not, but I understand how questions would be raised. After he relaxes he will or should understand also.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:57 PM
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Well, past behavior would be lies, all the time. He was always very busy lying about how much he was drinking, what he was doing, and who he was doing it with. The hardest part is, I am out of state. I can't even verify the little things, like "did you go to work today?" or "how is the garden doing?". Unless I hire someone to spy on him, there is no way for me to know if he is doing what he says he is or not. And don't think that hasn't crossed my mind, sometimes I feel like that would be the only way I could know for sure, is if I hired someone to follow him around for a week. But seriously, how warped is that?

The response that hit the nerve was yours, New Me... I would have to say that someone who is so lax about being around beer is NOT working hard on his recovery, he is simply not drinking right now. The fact that the beer was in the photograph, well, old habits die hard. He's not used to having to hide anything, because when he was questioned in the past, he would lie, and we wouldn't think twice about not believing him. I think thats why he's so mad now, because it didn't work this time. He did mention that sometimes he falls, but not far. I don't know what that is supposed to mean. I asked if he was still going to AA meetings, and he said a quick "yup". Are you still talking alot with your sponsor? "yup, I want a new one though, I don't like the one I have now." Doesn't like the meetings, because it's the same people saying the same things over and over again. Boring to him.

And he isn't working on any of his "precursor" problems, not that I know of. No therapy, no counciling. As soon as he no longer _had_ to go (meaning court ordered stuff), I 'm pretty sure he stopped. He has never called me or my sister and told us he was having a hard time, or he was blue, needed to chat, reached out to us, anything like that. Always on his best behavior, happy happy joy joy, I'm doing awesome, I'm so good at this, it's easy! Today is the first time he has ever mentioned that he has had trouble before, but won't tell me how he gets past it or through it. I feel like it's all part of the facade, I see now his recovery has been too perfect.

I have started going to Alanon, mandjas, which he actually mentioned as well. He told me I needed to start going to Alanon meetings, so I could learn how to support him. I'm not sure if he understands the real purpose of alanon, or maybe he actually does, and that was his way of reiterating the fact that he wants me to leave him alone and stop bothering him.

Many heartfelt thanks to everyone who responded to my plea for guidance. It is obvious to me now that it does not matter if he's telling the truth or not. The only thing that I need to realize from everything that happened today is the simple fact that he is not taking his recovery seriously. If he was serious about being sober, and turning his life around, he wouldn't be doing the things he is doing. Period. If he isn't going to take it seriously, then I can't have anything to do with it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kittykitty View Post
It is obvious to me now that it does not matter if he's telling the truth or not. The only thing that I need to realize from everything that happened today is the simple fact that he is not taking his recovery seriously. If he was serious about being sober, and turning his life around, he wouldn't be doing the things he is doing. Period. If he isn't going to take it seriously, then I can't have anything to do with it.
Bingo. See, you knew it all along. Meanwhile, don't make yourself crazy about it. He is who he is, and he'll do what he'll do. You focus on taking care of yourself.

BIG BIG hugs to you. I know this is so hard. I'm fairly new at it, too.
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kittykitty View Post
It is obvious to me now that it does not matter if he's telling the truth or not. The only thing that I need to realize from everything that happened today is the simple fact that he is not taking his recovery seriously. If he was serious about being sober, and turning his life around, he wouldn't be doing the things he is doing. Period. If he isn't going to take it seriously, then I can't have anything to do with it.
Right, and because he is not taking his recovery seriously, it is logical to assume he will not HAVE his recovery very long, if he even still has it now. People who behave as he is behaving ALWAYS drink again. So you may as well assume he's drinking now. Even if he isn't, it's only a matter of time.
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Old 11-13-2009, 05:53 AM
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thank you thank you thank you to everyone
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