Mandjas

You know this is my 4th week with no contact with my mother and the rollercoaster in my head continues.

My husband and son have gone away for a few days, to join his sister on a short break (I couldn't go as I have no leave left this year). I find myself sitting here alone with my thoughts and I feel so very desperate. I keep bursting in to tears for no reason? I was so upbeat yesterday and nearly never went to Ala-non because I was feeling good. What a difference a day makes!

I feel so lonely and am having irrational thoughts of what would l do if my husband or son weren't around? Even panicing that something might happen to them while they are away. Why do I insist on punishing myself so much? I know these thoughts aren't healthy but I can't stop the chatter in my head.

tromboneliness

The roller coaster is one thing Al-Anon (or your program of choice) will help with.

Back when my wife was drinking -- a period we now refer to, in-house, as the Bad Old Days™ -- and before I had a program, I used to say that our relationship was "like being on a V-Max with a stuck throttle. (A V-Max is an extremely fast motorcycle that can get your license pulled in the blink of an eye, if you don't behave yourself.)

Generally, when things are driving me nuts -- which still happens more often than it should despite the XIV medallion in my pocket (which doesn't mean doo-doo if you don't work the program!) -- what's usually happening is that I'm obsessing over things that are out of my hands. A lot of people like to phrase Step 1 as meaning that we are "powerless over people, places, and things." This is pretty much true. But it's easy to start obsessing about them, nonetheless. Not sure if that's what's going on here, but it sounds like it might be.

Do you have any of the daily meditation books? "One Day At A Time in Al-Anon," the blue one, is good, as are "Courage to Change" and "Hope for Today." If your meeting sells these books, try one -- I like to keep one onmy desk and read a meditation or two at lunchtime... or anytime, for that matter!

T

Mandjas

Thanks T. I have in fact just recieved my Hope for Today and my group have let me borrow the 12 steps book.

You are right I am obsessing, this generally tends to be when I am alone!

I am an intelligent, fairly successful woman, who is very perceptive and has a focused business mind. But my mom has the ability to make me feel irrational and emotional - almost like she has some kind of hold over me???? I scratch my head sometimes as to what I am thinking and feeling the things that I do.

I look at some my older posts and wonder how I got to the stage of thinking that way? I sound sad and desperate but that's not the real me at all?

guiab

Hi Mandjas,
The 'setting and maintaining boundaries' process is tough - it goes against all of the habits you have learned while living with a drinking parent, all those good human instincts that are twisted into enablers of drinking by this disease.
Oh, yes - my AF excelled at turning any argument into a calibration of one's fitness to live on this planet, and was especially vicious if the discussion touched on his mistakes. And any discussion with my AM about her drinking resulted in a feeling of despair and hopelessness that can only be described as soul-sucking. No discussion of drinking went anywhere. That is the way of the disease and that is why alanon and this forum exist.
I have also found that the alanon program sometimes opens up doors of denial and turns the light on for places of our mind that are uncomfortable. Feelings come up and old rationalizations and thought patterns are shown to be very unhealthy. The program can bring you down sometimes but it is necessary to build up a healthier perspective. Self-knowledge isn't always good news. That's why you have to keep up with the meetings (and posting and journaling).
You are doing a great job so far - keep it up.

Mandjas

You are indeed very right, this is very tough! 5th week of no contact and the silence is unbearable at times.

My dad came to watch my son play soccer of Sat morning for the first time, which was really nice to see him. We didn't talk about my mom, as it wasn't the right time but he did mention to my husband that he tried to get her there but it wasn't going to happen! Not sure what he meant by that?? But I guess it re-emphasises that she may well not want to speak to me again.

In the past she has gone for long periods of time without speaking to me - generally over the most stupid reasons! She didn't speak to my eldest brother for 10 years because he wouldn't get out of bed when he was back from uni on spring break. A mixture of both of their stubbornness led to it. I have been the less stubborn one and always go back with my tail between my legs and apologising my way back in to her life.

I am really torn, most of the time I think that she is an adult and she has to make amends or contact us when she wants to see my son - under the guidelines that I have stipulated (basically no drinking).

At other times I think that she might think that I am being spiteful and manipulative and that's why she hasn't made contact with us, and that I need to explain to her and reassure her that I'm not. Almost like I feel the need to clear up this whole ugly mess because believe me she is hurting real bad at the moment.

If this is a disease and she is in pain, aren't my actions making her feel worse?
I have made my point now, with taking access to my son away - is it time to talk?? Will it do any good?? Will I be falling back in to the same old pattern of seeking her approval all over again? Will she just end up abusing my trust again if she seems ok now but falls off the wagon in the future?

I know am obsessing AGAIN but she is my mom and I do love her and acre about her welfare. BUT I love my son and his welfare more

tromboneliness

(Ya, I know we're not supposed to give advice -- but I'm going to do it anyway.)

Calling AM now would be tantamount to saying, "You win, I'm erasing my boundary, everything's okay, keep drinking, nothing has to change."

But you knew that.

If AM wants to see her grandkid, she knows what she has to do: show up sober. That. Is. Not. Unreasonable. It's a nice, clear boundary. Stick to it. If she wants to give you the silent treatment and thinks you're going to cave in, so be it.

If we erase our boundaries, nothing changes.

T

Mandjas

I did know that yes but I just need it re-inforced I guess (Typical ACoA I wonder...? lol).

I'm just not sure if she understands that's all it is? A drink = no visits, no drink = time spent together?? I feel like I just want to clarify that I am not taking him away that I just don't want him around her when she is unstable. I guess I made it clear in my letter and I have told my dad that's the case, so I'll just have to leave them to it!

It doesn't stop it from hurting though

dothi

You have this mixed up, Mandjas...

If this is a disease and she is in pains, then her decisions are making her feel worse.

Realizing your parent values alcohol so much - even over their relationship with you - is a very brutal, painful reality to face. Honestly, have you thought about counselling?

When I faced the pain that my dad was truly an alcoholic - who violated any boundaries I set, accused me of being ungrateful, who refused to see how his drinking was impacting EVERYTHING ELSE in his life - I CRIED for days. Once it was every evening for a week solid. Other times something would trigger me and I would fall back into a crying funk again. I was grieving for the relationship I wanted to have with my dad. I grieving for the loss of my sober dad, which was making me insane because physically my dad was still right there in front of me.

Counselling really helped me sort through these feelings. It helped me process the grief of detaching (which felt like giving up, and I loved my dad, and didn't want to give up on him "so easily"). It definitely helped me cope with the toxic guilt my dad constantly forced on me that prevented me from speaking up when he hurt me.

This is not an easy process, Mandjas, so don't sell yourself short on what you're going through. I know, you're probably already thinking, "but it's not that bad that I really need to see a counsellor." Well guess what? It's bad enough that YEARS LATER you are still obsessing about this. Yes, obsessing, because what other relationship in your life compares to how much focus you put on your mom?

I used to do this with my dad. He was the one person in the world who could make me feel like unworthy, ungrateful, cold-hearted sh*t in a heartbeat if I ever said anything that hurt his feelings. When I was with him my mind was on hyper-drive (especially when he was drinking) for what to say/do and what NOT to say/do. If he could love me in a healthy way, then he wouldn't have to manipulate me like that. That's why I ultimately detached. I can't cure him, change him, or control him, but for the sake of my health, friends, and chosen family, I can control myself. But before I could do that well, I needed some guidance. I wasn't used to boundaries either, or prepared for the emotions that came with them. That's where counselling guided me through some rough waters. It's worth it if you can find a counsellor familiar with family addictions.

Iwanttoheal

(((Mandjas)))

I have been trying to think if I had anything to share.

When I first set my boundaries with my codependent mother and alcoholic brother I remember feeling so proud that for the first time in my life I had had the strength to stand up for myself. That feeling of pride, relief and a weight-lifting from my shoulders lasted for 3 or 4 days.

What I wasn't prepared for was the obsessing that replaced those positive feelings. I remember feeling cheated - I had found the strength to do something very, very difficult and this was the reward I got

I remember feeling this unbearable, overpowering need to tell them why I had behaved the way I had, to make sure they understood the reasons for my actions. I had imaginary conversations with them, I wrote imaginary letters to them, I dreamt about them. In my imagination, they were kind, caring, tolerant, nurturing people - the family I wanted and craved. Fortunately, my intelligent head knew that the response I would get from my family would not be the one I wanted and needed, this helped me to stay away from them.

What helped me was to understand that this obsessing was MY addiction, MY codependency talking. I was in withdrawal from these two people, I craved contact with them. It may not have been a chemical addiction and withdrawal but it was so, so, so, so, so powerful. (My respect for people who have gone through a withdrawal from a chemical substance went through the roof at that point). The drive I was experiencing was a powerful drive to re-establish balance in the unhealthy, dysfunctional family dynamics that was / is my family of origin.

In the early days of setting my boundaries, this understanding didn't stop the obsessing or stop the pain but it did help me to come to terms with and manage my own feelings.

It also helped when I grieved and really, truly let it in and accepted that I didn't have the mother I wanted, I have never had her and will never get her. That hurt - but the rawness is passing.

For me, it has gotten easier as the weeks pass - I don't obsess any more - I often will get to the end of the day and realise that I haven't given either of them a thought.

Well done, it's not easy . Keep posting, IWTHxxx

likealion

Mandjas, I wish I had some words that would comfort you, but I am at the beginning of this journey towards healing, and I can only say that I'm proud of your courage. What you're doing is something I might be doing in the future, and seeing that you're brave enough to create boundaries and stick with them is inspiring to me. Maybe I can be that brave, too.

Mandjas

I haven't thought about counselling no, as you're right I didn't htink it was bad enough for me to get it. I did however have counselling abotu 7 years ago about my relationship with her (during one on her silent treatment stages) but I didn't know she was an alcoholic back then. I've only known for the last 18months, so I guess it's quite new to me.

I also feel an urgency to get it sorted out as I am moving the other side of the world next year (England to Australia). If we don't make amends now then I doubt I will see her again in many, many years.

Mandjas

My word I could have written this myself! Thank you for sharing.

I guess deep down I expected a call and an apology of the 'unacceptable behaviour' and a promise of honesty. All I ask is if she'd been drinking then to just say no to having my son and give me a call when she is sober (as I know she doesn't drink continuously and can stay clean for a few weeks if she's focused).

I don't know whether she just doesn't get it, or I wasn't clear enough, or she just can't face up to the fact that I have pointed out that her behaviour is unacceptable (because of all of the great things she does for him/aside from drinking whilst he is in her care).

Last time this happend, when I moved out. She sent me a horrible email about how I treat her badly (basically what a rotten daughter I am), how nobody spends time with Sammy like she does, all the things she taught him and shown him and looked after him and I am very grateful for that.

BUT to shout and scream in front of him, be drunk whilst he is in her care and most appaulingly drink drive with him in the car, kind of takes a dominant view in my mind. Not sure if I am making sense? What I am trying to say is that I do see the good but the small bits of bad cloud it all in my mind.

Mandjas

Thank you. It gives me more strength that I am inspiring somebody to make a positive change in their lives.

Iwanttoheal

Hi Mandjas

Eeeeh, it makes you crazy engaging with alcoholics - well it made / makes me crazy!!!

Are you hoping that when your mother has been drinking she will think rationally, that she will say to herself "No I've been drinking today, I am not fit to look after my grandson".

In my experience drink and rational thinking / behaviour NEVER go together.

Another question to you is this - are the small bits of bad really that small?

As an ACOA, the message that I learnt throughout my childhood and early adulthood is that "Things were not THAT bad". It was repeated and repeated and repeated and I believed it because it was spoken by the most important people in my life, my Mum and Dad. However, the truth is things WERE / ARE that bad.

Driving drunk with your son in the car is bad. All the good behaviour in the world does not give her the excuse to behave in this way. You see this and have acted accordingly - well done.

You cannot control whether she chooses to see this, you cannot control her behaviour, it is her choice.

IWTHxxx

reverse

I know what you mean here. Been there and done that a thousand times. The wishful thinking of ...maybe SOMEDAY they'll change and realize how much they are missing out on and how much they have destroyed.

I also know what you mean here and have been there myself. However, I had to realize that I was overanalyzing it and trying to rationalize the situation b/c it helped relieve the pain and once AGAIN--put the responsibility on myself instead of where it truly belongs-ON HER. All of the so-called great things she does is used as a form of manipulation now b/c she truly has no defense--so she tries to make you feel guilty as if there is something wrong w/ u.

Again, been there and done that as well. I've been called every name in the book also...unloyal, uncaring; the list goes on. However, I care more than they do! Again...I don't recall you being the one driving her son around in a vehicle drunk while forgetting to buckle him in. I don't recall you getting into screaming fits in front of your son b/c of your out of control behavior and lifestyle. Nobody spends time w/ Sammy the way she does....she's right. No one would drive while intoxicated--putting ur son's life at risk. You would not allow anyone to do that...(anyone who is not willing to change thier behavior that is). And now that she is making the choice not to come around and simply change something so small (altho now it sounds like it's turned it a big problem) there is even more time for YOU to spend w/ your son. I'm sure your son is tired of the drunk tirades/screaming/ and unpredictable behavior from g-ma. Even tho he is only 3, they know MUCH more than what we realize. I have a 3 year old, 18 mo. year old, and almost 3 month old...3 children 3 years and under--I have learned not to underestimate their abilities! They have taught me alot! lol

Again, snds like u are trying to give her the benefit of the doubt--but DO NOT. Hold to your boundary strongly and do not allow her opposition make you question your values, beliefs, and the necessity of protecting your son (and even urself) from her irresponsible behavior. For all you know, there could have been a car accident as a result of such behavior. Ur mum is lucky there hasn't been. Truly her good behavior does not justify or nearly come close to erase the bad. She makes it sound like u consider her bad behavior to be trivial, silly, and immature--as if it were something as small as her leaving the cupboards in the kitchen open. However...this is serious. Most alcoholics minimize their "bad" actions and try to put it on u like...what's ur problem. Try convincing someone who is drunk not to drive and you will soon experience opposition and be blamed for giving them a "hard time" or "making such a fuss". I don't blame u for wanting to enure the safety of your son. Don't let her make you feel ashamed or crazy for wanting to do so...and don't make the mistake of justifying the bad behavior. We ACOA's appreciate the good things they do for us, but it does not excuse them from the poor choices and actions they do for us. I've learned not to let my mom off the hook and hold her to the same standard as everyone else. If I wouldn't tolerate my friend driving drunk w/ my children in the car, I definitely would expect that my mother of all people wouldn't do such a thing...nor would I tolerate it simply b/c "but she's my mom". Motherhood doesn't entitle us to do bad things and put our children's lives at risk.


It's amazing how much us ACOA's have in common! That's why I am soooo thankful for this board--it really helps keep me in check and leave the insanity I am inclined to feel at bay. The recent boundary I finally set w/ my mother may have been nearly impossible to maintain if it wasn't for reading the stories on the bored and receiving the helpful feedback on my posts.

Stay strong and ..sorry for rambling. I really have grown to love this site!

reverse

Yes...it is not our job to tell our parents how to be responsible. Not only that, but they are not very likely to listen to it. Don't focus so much on "How your mom might feel." She doesn't seem to be concerned w/ how you and your son feel. So why let it bother u any longer? Easier said than done, I know. Keep standing your ground and don't let "what she might think" influence your decision to keep ur son safe. She's making the choice..>NOT YOU. She's the one not respecting your wishes and seeing them as "irrational". Don't worry, it gets better as you go...and easier.