My wife is an ACOA
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My wife is an ACOA
Hi my wife of 5 years is an Adult Child of addict parents. We have been married for 5 years and have a 3 year old boy together. In the last 3 months or so it has come to light that she is in love with her best friend of 8 years. His wife cheated on him 4 years ago, and he has since had a child with a another woman that he is not together with. Basically he is the broken person that my wife can be the savior of. He plays the victim perfectly. Im am 99% certain that they have never slept together, but as I am learning through al-anon, he is my wife's drug that she cant shake. My question is, why wont my wife leave me for this guy? I have told her that if she loves him, then to leave, and why is it the more I detach from her, the more she makes an effort to interact with me, by trying to make conversation, flirting, but anything more than that is out of the question. Has anybody else been in a similar situation? Im at the end of my rope, but I feel trapped!
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Hi there Prescott,
Does your wife realize the implications of being an adult child? Is she in any group sessions or therapy like you?
After reading books, I can see that she seeks out people who are "projects" and confusing rescuing for loving someone. Being an ACOA makes you a co-dependent by default, and you have a habit of wanting to rescue people.
I also see her being more interactive with you the more you pull away. Depending on the household she grew up in, she may have felt she had to work/earn to get love or that she was the one to placate things when things are tense, and if it were giving her love freely/normally then she may not have known what to do with it.
So what kind of help is she getting?
Do you want to stay and wait for her to make up her mind about this guy?
Is he even interested?
Does your wife realize the implications of being an adult child? Is she in any group sessions or therapy like you?
After reading books, I can see that she seeks out people who are "projects" and confusing rescuing for loving someone. Being an ACOA makes you a co-dependent by default, and you have a habit of wanting to rescue people.
I also see her being more interactive with you the more you pull away. Depending on the household she grew up in, she may have felt she had to work/earn to get love or that she was the one to placate things when things are tense, and if it were giving her love freely/normally then she may not have known what to do with it.
So what kind of help is she getting?
Do you want to stay and wait for her to make up her mind about this guy?
Is he even interested?
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She refuses to get help, she said that she doesn't want to have to deal with the issues. She says that she doesn't want to be with the guy, and if she wanted a divorce she would get one. Whenever I confront her about the relationship She threatens to leave, but wont. I tell her she can leave, I'm not stopping her. She treats me as if I'm taking something away from her!
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So what is keeping you (and leaving it up to her)? The hope that if she got help, things would be better?
What made you decide to go to Al-Anon?
Have you also considered individual therapy so that it's more one on one for your own sake?
What made you decide to go to Al-Anon?
Have you also considered individual therapy so that it's more one on one for your own sake?
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I'm in therapy, and a good friend of mine suggested al-anon. My parents signed the lease for us to move into this apartment we are in and I cant trust her to pay the bills and rent! I also don't want to leave my son. I have been working on myself for a while now, but its the effects on her that are confusing me. The more I start to get better, the more she acts in bizarre ways! We actually get a long better now, weird, but she is not intimate in the least.
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I know first hand how hard it is to get someone you love to see their ways and how being ACOA affects them. My own sister is the person I'm thinking of. If they are completely in denial, it's almost impossible to get them to see the light so to speak.
"why is it the more I detach from her"
"We actually get a long better now, weird, but she is not intimate in the least. "
I am a bit confused; you are detaching from her because she loves another man, but yet things are better between the two of you. Which is it?
"why is it the more I detach from her"
"We actually get a long better now, weird, but she is not intimate in the least. "
I am a bit confused; you are detaching from her because she loves another man, but yet things are better between the two of you. Which is it?
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When you say detach, I envision cold, stonewalling, distant. But then you do this and she is more friendly with you?
I know that when I was with my ex (he was rather mean), and he was in a bad mood or distant with me, I would really try to placate him so he wasn't mad at me, even though I really did not even like him and I knew I was going to leave eventually. The placater in me is similar to me soothing my mom when she was upset with dad kind of thing. I just didn't want anyone mad at me.
Not saying this is your wife, but I did do that in my former marriage.
This could also be to the effect of what Michelle Wiener-Davis says who wrote Divorce Busters, the more you "live your own life, do what you want, make yourself happy, the more your mate is attracted to you" or something along those lines. She goes over it in her book when people get the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line.
As my counselor suggested over a year ago, you're in no hurry, you're in therapy, continue to work on yourself and you will soon know what to do. You can't make her deal with her issues however.
I know that when I was with my ex (he was rather mean), and he was in a bad mood or distant with me, I would really try to placate him so he wasn't mad at me, even though I really did not even like him and I knew I was going to leave eventually. The placater in me is similar to me soothing my mom when she was upset with dad kind of thing. I just didn't want anyone mad at me.
Not saying this is your wife, but I did do that in my former marriage.
This could also be to the effect of what Michelle Wiener-Davis says who wrote Divorce Busters, the more you "live your own life, do what you want, make yourself happy, the more your mate is attracted to you" or something along those lines. She goes over it in her book when people get the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line.
As my counselor suggested over a year ago, you're in no hurry, you're in therapy, continue to work on yourself and you will soon know what to do. You can't make her deal with her issues however.
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I'm not cold or mean, I detach with love as they say! I am not spiteful, but I'm just done making an effort. its like I have been running on a treadmill and finally my feet gave out and i fell on my face. I just know its not going to go anywhere unless she gets help. I'm just tired of mixed signals, like wanting to go on a cruise with me in July? For what reason? She basically said she doesnt want to be with me...
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it surely is crazy making behavior, and I can understand why you are so confused. She may be just trying to keep you at an arm's length in case she wants to return fully to you. Who knows.
Would she seek couples counseling with you?
Otherwise, I do not know how long I'd put up with someone who isn't 100% fully committed to me and loves another person. I wouldn't put up with it for very long, but it's only been 3 months in your case. Life's too short to deal with unhappy love lives, even if you have a kid. I mean he will grow up to see two unhappy people, and grow up to settle in his own love life. I did it.
I guess you could revisit her feelings in another 3 months since it's only been 3 months. Does she have contact with this man? How often?
Would she seek couples counseling with you?
Otherwise, I do not know how long I'd put up with someone who isn't 100% fully committed to me and loves another person. I wouldn't put up with it for very long, but it's only been 3 months in your case. Life's too short to deal with unhappy love lives, even if you have a kid. I mean he will grow up to see two unhappy people, and grow up to settle in his own love life. I did it.
I guess you could revisit her feelings in another 3 months since it's only been 3 months. Does she have contact with this man? How often?
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You are wondering why she doesn't leave you. It sounds to me because you are willing and accepting her crap - that's why. She can push and pull you away (tell you she loves another man, not be intimate with you), and then be nice and sweet (talk about cruises, flirt with you), and you are still there. You haven't taken any action.
What does your therapist say about this all?
What does your therapist say about this all?
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Sounds like she wants her cake and eat it too. Her way or no way.
What about your feelings-wants-needs?
You're doing great by getting yourself some help. We can go crazy with them without that help.
What about your feelings-wants-needs?
You're doing great by getting yourself some help. We can go crazy with them without that help.
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Trying to understand your wife's behavior will be very difficult, because it is not in any way, shape or form logical or rational or sense-making. In a lifetime long long ago, I was very similar to your wife.
I wanted the security of knowing there was someone there for me (you), but I wanted the feeling of being wanted - NEEDED - by someone who couldn't take care of themselves (him). To meet both those needs simultaneously, I needed one man who would put up with my 'friendly' relations with other men, and one man who was so emotionally damaged that I could "take care" of him.
She can't see that. Even if you were to say it to her, or even read her this post, she will be literally incapable of seeing that this is what's going on inside her psyche. Which is why she tells you she doesn't want to be with you, then butters you up. She wants to be with him to fix him and to feel important (because her only way to feel important is when she's propping someone else up - since you seem to not need propping, she has to find someone else). She needs to be with you for the security - which you seem to be providing for her quite nicely.
I'm not going to say what you "should" or "shouldn't" do, but I will let you know that if she refuses to seek help, the situation will not change. Then I will ask you how much of your life do you want to spend living like this, as her security blanket? With the son thrown in, what kind of example are you setting for him of what a husband/wife relationship consists of?
I wanted the security of knowing there was someone there for me (you), but I wanted the feeling of being wanted - NEEDED - by someone who couldn't take care of themselves (him). To meet both those needs simultaneously, I needed one man who would put up with my 'friendly' relations with other men, and one man who was so emotionally damaged that I could "take care" of him.
She can't see that. Even if you were to say it to her, or even read her this post, she will be literally incapable of seeing that this is what's going on inside her psyche. Which is why she tells you she doesn't want to be with you, then butters you up. She wants to be with him to fix him and to feel important (because her only way to feel important is when she's propping someone else up - since you seem to not need propping, she has to find someone else). She needs to be with you for the security - which you seem to be providing for her quite nicely.
I'm not going to say what you "should" or "shouldn't" do, but I will let you know that if she refuses to seek help, the situation will not change. Then I will ask you how much of your life do you want to spend living like this, as her security blanket? With the son thrown in, what kind of example are you setting for him of what a husband/wife relationship consists of?
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I had to make a whole series of really horrible awful decisions that destroyed my finances, alienated me from my support network, and finally ended in my being involved with a man who tried to kill me. The part of my brain that took the SATs seems to have piped up and said "Something is seriously wrong here, and the one common denominator to all my failed relationships is me."
I became a social hermit for about 3 years. Met my now husband, got married, and ACoA issues started tearing our marriage apart. I started marriage counseling with hubby. We had a very very very good counselor, and she started pointing things out to me. As life leads us on a merry journey, I then saw a psychiatrist and two more psychologists, of varying effectiveness. I am now back to seeing our old marriage counselor, but one-on-one (she specializes in family dysfunctions, so she's very good with this sort of thing) and only once a month.
I spent 5 years in solid (weekly) therapy because I truly loved my husband and knew I really didn't want to spend my life without him - not because he needs taking care of, and not because he's "security" (though any intimate relationship will provide a sense of security, I'm referring to the "security" that is out of proportion to the situation - given the situation you have right now, your wife should not be feeling secure at all, and she isn't - given the batting eyelashes etc - she's trying to hold you where you are). And I knew if I didn't find a way to deal with MY issues, he would eventually not be able to deal with my issues either.
I was highly motivated. The first time I sought therapy, I was 20. It was intermittent until I was in my late 30s, and that's when things started to click about how I was living in the world versus how I *wanted* to be able to live in the world.
If she is not motivated to change, then you're looking at a long stretch of exactly what you've been living in recently. I will also say that if you leave her, my guess is that she will give you one of two reactions: 1 - she will run off to 'the other guy' and "punish" you by leaving your son for you to take care of (which, honestly, is probably the best for your son) or 2 - she will try to "punish" you be being mean and vindictive and trying to keep your son from you.
I really hate to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I don't want you to be unprepared either. There will be vindictiveness from her as she tries to manipulate you into staying. When the batting of eyelashes no longer works, she will try fear. It was how her family/parents managed to control her, and it's what she knows. Syrup and fear (or guilt in large measures). If one doesn't work, use the other. Since she isn't open to getting help, you will face one or both of these, or, very likely, both at the same time.
I can't say whether you should leave or not. I never had children involved and I am not you. I can only say that if she doesn't want help and refuses it if you ask her to see a therapist - well, there's a saying "Nothing changes if nothing changes." If she is resistant to changing, your life will continue on as it is now. How long or if you want to continue down that path is really something only you can decide.
I will tell you from your son's point of view: my parents have a horrible marriage. They've been married over 45 years and have been miserable most of it. From them, I learned that that was what to expect out of an intimate relationship - fighting, screaming, name calling, put downs, lack of affection etc. I learned that that was what it meant to be married. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that I met adults with healthy long term relationships. As a result of the behaviors modeled for me, it took quite a bit of therapy to discover what a healthy relationship looked like - forget about how to go about having one. If you do stay, your son will learn that this is "normal" and he will, in turn, seek out similar relationships. "Staying together for the kids" is never all that good for the kids - even if there is no active yelling and shouting.
I would advocate for your continued participation in this board. You can read the stickies at the top, read the posts as people talk about what they're working through or dealing with with their parents. It might help you to see inside the head of an ACoA. At the very least, I suggest you read the 13 common characteristics of ACoAs up above in the stickies. It might (or might not) help explain some of your wife's behavior to you.
I became a social hermit for about 3 years. Met my now husband, got married, and ACoA issues started tearing our marriage apart. I started marriage counseling with hubby. We had a very very very good counselor, and she started pointing things out to me. As life leads us on a merry journey, I then saw a psychiatrist and two more psychologists, of varying effectiveness. I am now back to seeing our old marriage counselor, but one-on-one (she specializes in family dysfunctions, so she's very good with this sort of thing) and only once a month.
I spent 5 years in solid (weekly) therapy because I truly loved my husband and knew I really didn't want to spend my life without him - not because he needs taking care of, and not because he's "security" (though any intimate relationship will provide a sense of security, I'm referring to the "security" that is out of proportion to the situation - given the situation you have right now, your wife should not be feeling secure at all, and she isn't - given the batting eyelashes etc - she's trying to hold you where you are). And I knew if I didn't find a way to deal with MY issues, he would eventually not be able to deal with my issues either.
I was highly motivated. The first time I sought therapy, I was 20. It was intermittent until I was in my late 30s, and that's when things started to click about how I was living in the world versus how I *wanted* to be able to live in the world.
If she is not motivated to change, then you're looking at a long stretch of exactly what you've been living in recently. I will also say that if you leave her, my guess is that she will give you one of two reactions: 1 - she will run off to 'the other guy' and "punish" you by leaving your son for you to take care of (which, honestly, is probably the best for your son) or 2 - she will try to "punish" you be being mean and vindictive and trying to keep your son from you.
I really hate to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I don't want you to be unprepared either. There will be vindictiveness from her as she tries to manipulate you into staying. When the batting of eyelashes no longer works, she will try fear. It was how her family/parents managed to control her, and it's what she knows. Syrup and fear (or guilt in large measures). If one doesn't work, use the other. Since she isn't open to getting help, you will face one or both of these, or, very likely, both at the same time.
I can't say whether you should leave or not. I never had children involved and I am not you. I can only say that if she doesn't want help and refuses it if you ask her to see a therapist - well, there's a saying "Nothing changes if nothing changes." If she is resistant to changing, your life will continue on as it is now. How long or if you want to continue down that path is really something only you can decide.
I will tell you from your son's point of view: my parents have a horrible marriage. They've been married over 45 years and have been miserable most of it. From them, I learned that that was what to expect out of an intimate relationship - fighting, screaming, name calling, put downs, lack of affection etc. I learned that that was what it meant to be married. It wasn't until I was in my 20s that I met adults with healthy long term relationships. As a result of the behaviors modeled for me, it took quite a bit of therapy to discover what a healthy relationship looked like - forget about how to go about having one. If you do stay, your son will learn that this is "normal" and he will, in turn, seek out similar relationships. "Staying together for the kids" is never all that good for the kids - even if there is no active yelling and shouting.
I would advocate for your continued participation in this board. You can read the stickies at the top, read the posts as people talk about what they're working through or dealing with with their parents. It might help you to see inside the head of an ACoA. At the very least, I suggest you read the 13 common characteristics of ACoAs up above in the stickies. It might (or might not) help explain some of your wife's behavior to you.
Last edited by GingerM; 06-16-2009 at 06:47 AM. Reason: posting before coffeee
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I think most ACOA realize they have some "issues" when they start to have relationship problems or a series of failed relationships.
In my personal situation, I married someone who was a child and I enabled them. On top of that, he was mean, irresponsible and selfish. I knew that I was settling the day I married him. I just kept thinking - "Well, this is 100x better than my own parents' marriage, I should feel lucky." You don't want your son thinking that do you? All my sisters settled for less than spectacular men that all need rescuing.
I ended that marriage after 6 years because he was not healthy for me and I was growing out of the relationship. It wasn't until I was reading a book on emotional abuse and it talked about your original abuser. Then I saw the word "codependent" and "rescuer" and it struck me like a lighting bolt for the first time ever. He used to hate me for my codependent issues, but without them there wouldn't even have been a relationship with him. Then when I started to get healthier, this unhealthy marriage dissolved at lightening speed. He still calls my ACOA traits "excuses."
I had a good friend reiterate to me that I was codependent. Naturally, being the researcher type person I am, I educated myself on ACOA, emotional abuse, marriage problems, etc. I just soaked it all up. So this friend did help me see the light, but I was ready to see the light. I needed a change, and I didn't want to continue in the marriage I had the way it was.
I don't believe in ultimatums. You could suggest a controlled separation where you each work with a therapist on your own issues, then regroup in 6 months to see where each of you stand. You could say that you need for her to decide whether to pursue this man or commit to your marriage again or you will have to let her go as the marriage is not working for you. You could buy her a book on ACOA and Intimacy (Janet Woititz has one) and ask her to read it. You could ask her to join you in couples counseling, and if she does not, then you will have to reconsider a marriage with her. I don't think these sound as ultimatum-y, but they do make a request for change, and if things don't change then someone will happen.
In my personal situation, I married someone who was a child and I enabled them. On top of that, he was mean, irresponsible and selfish. I knew that I was settling the day I married him. I just kept thinking - "Well, this is 100x better than my own parents' marriage, I should feel lucky." You don't want your son thinking that do you? All my sisters settled for less than spectacular men that all need rescuing.
I ended that marriage after 6 years because he was not healthy for me and I was growing out of the relationship. It wasn't until I was reading a book on emotional abuse and it talked about your original abuser. Then I saw the word "codependent" and "rescuer" and it struck me like a lighting bolt for the first time ever. He used to hate me for my codependent issues, but without them there wouldn't even have been a relationship with him. Then when I started to get healthier, this unhealthy marriage dissolved at lightening speed. He still calls my ACOA traits "excuses."
I had a good friend reiterate to me that I was codependent. Naturally, being the researcher type person I am, I educated myself on ACOA, emotional abuse, marriage problems, etc. I just soaked it all up. So this friend did help me see the light, but I was ready to see the light. I needed a change, and I didn't want to continue in the marriage I had the way it was.
Originally Posted by jprescottjr 
It just sounds to me that I need to make a move and give her an ultimatum? Kind of like intervention? I cant go on like this. I just don't know hoe to do it.
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Man this is tough. She absolutely refuses to go get help, she actually thinks its me that has the problem. We went to a marriage counselor, once, and she felt like she was being attacked, I guess the therapist telling her that her having another relationship was wrong was to hard for her to hear. Now she feels like that's how it will be wherever she goes. I don't mean do ultimatums, but I need to find away to tell her that there will be consequences for her actions right? Or do i just split?
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Based on what we know now, this is what I may do...
Tell her how much you love her and how much you want a healthy, loving, stable marriage with her not only because you love her but because you want it for your son too. Tell her that you can no longer continue the way things are if she is not 100% committed to you and the marriage. Tell her you wish to seek couples counseling with you. Tell her she can complain about you the entire session (a tactic I read to get your spouse into counseling - but if deep down they know they are at fault, it doesn't always bite the first try). If she does not want to do this, then someone is going to have to move out. Suggest a separation if she refuses getting help for the team. Let her think about it and maybe revisit the issue in 3 months.
The kicker with deals like this is that you already need your ducks in a row, aka a place to stay.
She'll be angry, she'll feel abandoned, but it's going to have to take something like this to wake her up. If you just stay, and nothing changes, she'll have her cake and eat it to and never realize anything.
OR she may beg and promise you she'll do anything, enough so that you get off her back and stop talking like that. Yet, she'll never follow through. You can call her bluff by scheduling the first appointment right then and there.
It's going to be hard and it'll suck. At least you can say you tried one last time.
Ask your therapist about this. Mine suggested this, but I lived with an emotional abuser and I was the ACOA.
Tell her how much you love her and how much you want a healthy, loving, stable marriage with her not only because you love her but because you want it for your son too. Tell her that you can no longer continue the way things are if she is not 100% committed to you and the marriage. Tell her you wish to seek couples counseling with you. Tell her she can complain about you the entire session (a tactic I read to get your spouse into counseling - but if deep down they know they are at fault, it doesn't always bite the first try). If she does not want to do this, then someone is going to have to move out. Suggest a separation if she refuses getting help for the team. Let her think about it and maybe revisit the issue in 3 months.
The kicker with deals like this is that you already need your ducks in a row, aka a place to stay.
She'll be angry, she'll feel abandoned, but it's going to have to take something like this to wake her up. If you just stay, and nothing changes, she'll have her cake and eat it to and never realize anything.
OR she may beg and promise you she'll do anything, enough so that you get off her back and stop talking like that. Yet, she'll never follow through. You can call her bluff by scheduling the first appointment right then and there.
It's going to be hard and it'll suck. At least you can say you tried one last time.
Ask your therapist about this. Mine suggested this, but I lived with an emotional abuser and I was the ACOA.
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