Interesting definition of codependency
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Interesting definition of codependency
Hi everyone,
I ran across this definition when reading part of the book An Adult Child's Guide to What is "Normal" online. It really hit home for me, and maybe it'll be enlightening for you too:
I've emphasized the part that was interesting to me.
This issue was further elucidated when I read part of It Will Never Happen to Me last night. In that book, Dr. Black says that sometimes, as ACoAs, instead of totally acknowledging, validating, expressing, or understanding our feelings, we'll "overreact" by doing things like leaving jobs because we have a problem with certain things.
What do you think about the above quote? Does it speak to you? Howso?
I ran across this definition when reading part of the book An Adult Child's Guide to What is "Normal" online. It really hit home for me, and maybe it'll be enlightening for you too:
Codependency is a dysfunctional pattern of living which emerges from our family of origin as well as our culture, producing arrested identity development, and resulting in an overreaction to things outside of us and an under-reaction to things inside of us. Left untreated, it can deteriorate into an addiction.
This issue was further elucidated when I read part of It Will Never Happen to Me last night. In that book, Dr. Black says that sometimes, as ACoAs, instead of totally acknowledging, validating, expressing, or understanding our feelings, we'll "overreact" by doing things like leaving jobs because we have a problem with certain things.
What do you think about the above quote? Does it speak to you? Howso?
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Bragi,
I think, though incomplete, that statement is spot-on. For many years, I had finely-tuned antenna that would catch even the slightest "danger" outside me (oh my god, someone's mad, someone's leaving, someone doesn't like me). But I was able to ignore years of inner sadness, frustration, and impotence that was suffocating me physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
It was as if I felt I had to deal with this exterior stuff -- survival issues is how they seemed -- and "later" I would find peace and happiness with who & what I was.
But "later" sometimes never comes for ACoAs. There is ALWAYS something frightening, stressful, horrible going on outside - if it isn't right in front of our nose, we'll just tune our antennae out farther and find it!
I thought that if I took my attention off the things around me to focus on inner work, everything outside would crumble. But in fact, it was the opposite. As my recovery progresses, everything else keeps falling into place because of it, like puzzle pieces being snapped into place by an unseen hand. Doing the hard work of shifting my focus from outside to inside was the best thing I ever did.
I think, though incomplete, that statement is spot-on. For many years, I had finely-tuned antenna that would catch even the slightest "danger" outside me (oh my god, someone's mad, someone's leaving, someone doesn't like me). But I was able to ignore years of inner sadness, frustration, and impotence that was suffocating me physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
It was as if I felt I had to deal with this exterior stuff -- survival issues is how they seemed -- and "later" I would find peace and happiness with who & what I was.
But "later" sometimes never comes for ACoAs. There is ALWAYS something frightening, stressful, horrible going on outside - if it isn't right in front of our nose, we'll just tune our antennae out farther and find it!
I thought that if I took my attention off the things around me to focus on inner work, everything outside would crumble. But in fact, it was the opposite. As my recovery progresses, everything else keeps falling into place because of it, like puzzle pieces being snapped into place by an unseen hand. Doing the hard work of shifting my focus from outside to inside was the best thing I ever did.
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There is ALWAYS something frightening, stressful, horrible going on outside - if it isn't right in front of our nose, we'll just tune our antennae out farther and find it!
I think that also ties to scrapegoating (which has come up lately on this forum) -that constant looking for a blame target to distract from the real issues. No wonder why co-dependents are quick to jump on the scrapegoating bandwagon and cheer alongside the alcoholic at his/her chosen bad guy.Member
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I can definately relate to that. I have left many jobs on the spur of the moment because I thought that it was the job that was causing all my hurt and upset, only to realise that it is inside me. I've also got a tendancy to want to move around the country-again, I think it's because I feel I can outrun my feelings, but because I'm seeing a therapist I have had to stay put for the last 2 years (although I've moved around in the county!) to be near her.
My therapist recently raised this point with me, because I'm living in a bad area and become almost obsessed with worries of people demolishing what I have built up here (my own place, freedom). I told her that I worry in order to somehow ward off any nasty surprises. She suggested that it's actually the sense of security and harmony at home that I lost as a child that I'm attempting to gain control over and that it is therefore problems inside me, ratehr than outside, that scare me most.
I hope that made sense-I'm a bit dopey from new meds today!
My therapist recently raised this point with me, because I'm living in a bad area and become almost obsessed with worries of people demolishing what I have built up here (my own place, freedom). I told her that I worry in order to somehow ward off any nasty surprises. She suggested that it's actually the sense of security and harmony at home that I lost as a child that I'm attempting to gain control over and that it is therefore problems inside me, ratehr than outside, that scare me most.
I hope that made sense-I'm a bit dopey from new meds today!
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Lenore,
I can definitely relate to blaming your negative emotions on outside entities, especially jobs. I can also relate to trying to "outrun" your feelings -- going to a new place can feel so good, because there's novelty - which I think we as ACoAs crave - and it feels like a clean slate; nothing around us is tainted with the negative memories of the past.
I went on a vacation with my family a few years back, and I remember the best part of it was an afternoon where everyone else had things to do but me; for the first time in a year (bad relationship) I had nobody expecting me to do anything, and I could do anything without having to let people know where I was, etc. I ended up just walking around town for an hour or two and it was great. It was a very liberating and contented feeling, and I'd like to experience it again without having to go halfway across the country :P
Lenore: What inside of you do you (or your therapist) think you're scared of?
I can definitely relate to blaming your negative emotions on outside entities, especially jobs. I can also relate to trying to "outrun" your feelings -- going to a new place can feel so good, because there's novelty - which I think we as ACoAs crave - and it feels like a clean slate; nothing around us is tainted with the negative memories of the past.
I went on a vacation with my family a few years back, and I remember the best part of it was an afternoon where everyone else had things to do but me; for the first time in a year (bad relationship) I had nobody expecting me to do anything, and I could do anything without having to let people know where I was, etc. I ended up just walking around town for an hour or two and it was great. It was a very liberating and contented feeling, and I'd like to experience it again without having to go halfway across the country :P
Lenore: What inside of you do you (or your therapist) think you're scared of?
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GiveLove,
I can relate to what you say, but I also have this deal where I feel like I have to "fix" something inside me before I can relax and be happy. Can anyone else relate to this?
I spend a lot of time reading self-help books and whatnot. All I really want to do is be content most of the time, and I'm not quite sure how to accomplish it.
I can relate to what you say, but I also have this deal where I feel like I have to "fix" something inside me before I can relax and be happy. Can anyone else relate to this?
I spend a lot of time reading self-help books and whatnot. All I really want to do is be content most of the time, and I'm not quite sure how to accomplish it.
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After years of self-criticism for my non-stop inner work over the years to try to "fix" myself so I could be happy, I've decided to let myself off the hook for it.
A thousand self help books, a hundred hours of counseling, twelve workshops, dozens of Al-Anon meetings, three thousand posts on SR, and thousands of pages of journal entries, lists, notes, charts, sketches, montages, cocktail-napkin scribblings, and I've finally come to one startling conclusion.
This is who I am. This searching, fixing, fine-tuning, learning, questing for some better way for myself? This will continue for the rest of my life.
And that's okay.
I see it now as a noble cause, much more noble than spending those hours in a bar, or compulsively working/eating/exercising/drugging, or in front of the TV watching stupid reality shows. I see the progress I make, slowly, every year of my life. I look back at journals from twenty years ago and see how much pain I suffered then that I don't suffer now.
If there is something specific you want to fix about yourself, bragi, then continue to devote some time, counseling, reading, and PRACTICE - always physical practice or your body will not learn - to fixing just that one thing. When you get a toehold on it - when you start to feel moments of Okay, of Good, of Relaxed In Your Own Skin, then wriggle a bit in that space and keep working on it until those moments can expand to hours. (For example......what is keeping you from a two-hour walk around a fantastically stimulating part of your own town, acting the tourist, absorbing life? See Julia Cameron's concept of artist dates for more ideas) Next month or next year, try another. If you are dedicated to changing it, it will change.
But if you're waiting for the day you never want to pick up another self-help book, never have "just one more thing" you'd like to make better inside yourself, I'm here to warn you that that day may never come.
And I personally think that's a damned good vocation.
Just my two cents, though.
P.S. my single most valuable experience in all those books and resources was to commit myself to Martha Beck's "The Joy Diet: Ten Daily Practices for a Happier Life". I really committed to doing it, not just reading it, and I still listen to it now in the car whenever I need to recenter myself and get back on track. I have never been the same. Can't recommend it enough.
A thousand self help books, a hundred hours of counseling, twelve workshops, dozens of Al-Anon meetings, three thousand posts on SR, and thousands of pages of journal entries, lists, notes, charts, sketches, montages, cocktail-napkin scribblings, and I've finally come to one startling conclusion.
This is who I am. This searching, fixing, fine-tuning, learning, questing for some better way for myself? This will continue for the rest of my life.
And that's okay.
I see it now as a noble cause, much more noble than spending those hours in a bar, or compulsively working/eating/exercising/drugging, or in front of the TV watching stupid reality shows. I see the progress I make, slowly, every year of my life. I look back at journals from twenty years ago and see how much pain I suffered then that I don't suffer now.
If there is something specific you want to fix about yourself, bragi, then continue to devote some time, counseling, reading, and PRACTICE - always physical practice or your body will not learn - to fixing just that one thing. When you get a toehold on it - when you start to feel moments of Okay, of Good, of Relaxed In Your Own Skin, then wriggle a bit in that space and keep working on it until those moments can expand to hours. (For example......what is keeping you from a two-hour walk around a fantastically stimulating part of your own town, acting the tourist, absorbing life? See Julia Cameron's concept of artist dates for more ideas) Next month or next year, try another. If you are dedicated to changing it, it will change.
But if you're waiting for the day you never want to pick up another self-help book, never have "just one more thing" you'd like to make better inside yourself, I'm here to warn you that that day may never come.
And I personally think that's a damned good vocation.
Just my two cents, though.
P.S. my single most valuable experience in all those books and resources was to commit myself to Martha Beck's "The Joy Diet: Ten Daily Practices for a Happier Life". I really committed to doing it, not just reading it, and I still listen to it now in the car whenever I need to recenter myself and get back on track. I have never been the same. Can't recommend it enough.
Last edited by GiveLove; 03-27-2009 at 07:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by bragi 
This issue was further elucidated when I read part of It Will Never Happen to Me last night. In that book, Dr. Black says that sometimes, as ACoAs, instead of totally acknowledging, validating, expressing, or understanding our feelings, we'll "overreact" by doing things like leaving jobs because we have a problem with certain things.
What do you think about the above quote? Does it speak to you? Howso?
As an adult that meant I walked away from jobs or relationships when problems came up. I had to learn to address my problems in a calm, adult way. It was hard, but it can be learned.
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Originally Posted by bragi
I also have this deal where I feel like I have to "fix" something inside me before I can relax and be happy.
If you're trying to fix the fact that sometimes you forget your keys, and proceed to judge yourself unworthy when it happens that occasional once a year, that you might still be living up to unrealistic expectations. A good *unrealistic expectations barometer* is your gut; if it starts churning with anxiety, chances are the thing you're trying to fix isn't just a simple thing, and a shift in self-attitude might very well be the solution. That anxiety is also a signal that you're responding to something from your childhood, and so you might not be responding effectively as an adult.
Seconding GiveLove - I found that embracing my flaws really strengthened my character. For example, I used to get high anxiety at meetings and beat myself up for not being able to remember enough ("I should have known that" type of self-talk). It would take me directly back to the times when I fumbled in explaining something to my AF, and he would make me feel like the smallest person in the room because I said butterfly instead of dragonfly (or some other trivial slip-up). I got the, "don't you know what the difference is? you should know what the difference is... how will you ever be ____ if you can't tell the difference between yadda yadda ya..." <- [Enter world of unreasonable expectations *here*]
After a lot of self-work, now instead I don't even try to hide my poor anxiety-ridden memory. I make a point, even in mid-conversation, to write down the things I know I won't be able to retain. In fact, my colleagues even get a kick out of my pages of random notes that I carry with me to effectively keep my brain together. Somehow something that was once a shameful flaw has become a source of positive energy for me, and it makes me stand out as an employee. Bosses like employees who demonstrate good self-awareness; it means you know how to manage yourself and your short-comings.
End point: sometimes those things that need fixing really aren't so bad the way they are
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I really appreciate this thread. The point that GL made on how we search for things that are wrong is so very apt. In my case, I look so hard that I may actually create problems with my very attitude in verbal and non-verbal cues. Or there may be a bit of 'intention' (a la wayne dyer) gone masochistic.
And a lot of mental 'search terms' in looking for trouble are based on faults which, as doti points out, aren't really all that bad. We don't have to purge ourselves of all faults. We have to believe that little steps are the best that can and should be done to make ourselves better. By imagining big disasters on the horizon we imagine that they are caused by our big faults and that we must make big course corrections to ourselves. Most of the time those big mountains turn out to be little bumps.
On the subject of course corrections, a lot of us may also have a perfectionist outlook on treatment, that it MUST work 100% and rid us of ALL faults that gets in the way of recovery. Or, even worse, I have to make the therapist happy that he/she is doing a good job. As charlie brown said, 'AAAGGHHHH'!
And a lot of mental 'search terms' in looking for trouble are based on faults which, as doti points out, aren't really all that bad. We don't have to purge ourselves of all faults. We have to believe that little steps are the best that can and should be done to make ourselves better. By imagining big disasters on the horizon we imagine that they are caused by our big faults and that we must make big course corrections to ourselves. Most of the time those big mountains turn out to be little bumps.
On the subject of course corrections, a lot of us may also have a perfectionist outlook on treatment, that it MUST work 100% and rid us of ALL faults that gets in the way of recovery. Or, even worse, I have to make the therapist happy that he/she is doing a good job. As charlie brown said, 'AAAGGHHHH'!
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Wonderful thread gang, you guys rock.
I would change that definition a little bit for me. I say it is an "_incorrect_ reaction to all things, and especially to emotions".
As an "Adult Child" I am unable to have the _correct_ reaction to events and emotions that affect me. I learned those reactions from my biological family, who themselves had a toxic childhood. I am always _over_ or _under_ reacting, and never able to find the "Goldilocs porridge" that is _just right_.
I'm doing much better now. Lots of 12 step work and a few good shrinks have taught me how to _stop_ myself _before_ I react. Take a little time to think about it, talk it over with my sponsor and good friends, and then examine my options. Some day it may become natural, but not yet.
As far as "fixing" me. Nope. there is nothing "broke" with me. That's what my biological parent tried to make me believe. I was born perfectly normal, and exactly the same as everybody else on the planet; naked and stupid. All my "charecter defects" are nothing more than hard won survival skills I needed to overcome those insane parents.
I'm out of the loony bin now. Those old skills are no longer useful. We're in the digital age and I don't need to remember how to unjam typewriter keys anymore. Those days are gone. All I have to learn is how to "reboot" the ***** puter when it freaks out. Those are _new_ skills for this new century.
I have new _healthy_ skills; like how to be a good employee, a good boss, a good parent, friend, lover, etc. Just like I learned those old skills, I can learn new ones too. The difference is that now I can take my time and move at my own pace. My life doesn't depend on it anymore.
Mike
I would change that definition a little bit for me. I say it is an "_incorrect_ reaction to all things, and especially to emotions".
As an "Adult Child" I am unable to have the _correct_ reaction to events and emotions that affect me. I learned those reactions from my biological family, who themselves had a toxic childhood. I am always _over_ or _under_ reacting, and never able to find the "Goldilocs porridge" that is _just right_.
I'm doing much better now. Lots of 12 step work and a few good shrinks have taught me how to _stop_ myself _before_ I react. Take a little time to think about it, talk it over with my sponsor and good friends, and then examine my options. Some day it may become natural, but not yet.
As far as "fixing" me. Nope. there is nothing "broke" with me. That's what my biological parent tried to make me believe. I was born perfectly normal, and exactly the same as everybody else on the planet; naked and stupid. All my "charecter defects" are nothing more than hard won survival skills I needed to overcome those insane parents.
I'm out of the loony bin now. Those old skills are no longer useful. We're in the digital age and I don't need to remember how to unjam typewriter keys anymore. Those days are gone. All I have to learn is how to "reboot" the ***** puter when it freaks out. Those are _new_ skills for this new century.
I have new _healthy_ skills; like how to be a good employee, a good boss, a good parent, friend, lover, etc. Just like I learned those old skills, I can learn new ones too. The difference is that now I can take my time and move at my own pace. My life doesn't depend on it anymore.
Mike
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Originally Posted by bragi
Lenore,
Lenore: What inside of you do you (or your therapist) think you're scared of?
Lenore: What inside of you do you (or your therapist) think you're scared of?
My therapist thinks I'm trying to correct the past. Her theory is that rather than being afraid of or hurt by what might happen or is happening to me, I'm attempting to control the pain and uncertainty of my childhood in the present rather than accept and move on from it.
I think my tendancy to over react to things outside of me and under react to those within me stems from needing to be in control. I often sabotage myself-even if things are going fine, I will find a huge drama in something, anything! But when it comes to real problems that need addressing, I am too afraid to speak up and get them sorted. I just walk away from the source of them and focus on ridiculous things outside of my power to influence.
I'm trying to go a little easier on myself now. I went to Germany last year (running away again? lol) and during my stay and for about a week afterwards I felt at peace for the first time that I can ever remember. I'm attempting to work that sense of calm and letting go of my fears into my everyday life. It isn't easy since I believe, and my therapist agrees, that my worrying is an attempt to remain in control (no nasty surprises, forewarned is forearmed etc), but I'm trying to get out of the mindset that I can control events from my past and things that may occur in the future because the worrying is far more destructive than the things I worry about happening would be. Aaargh, it's hard for me to even write that!
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Originally Posted by Kallista
Oh, yeah. I can relate. One of the things I learned in my family was not to talk about things or challenge things when there was a problem. Problems were to be ignored, not solved. If a problem was talked about, there was a lot of screaming and accusations, and very little problem solving.
As an adult that meant I walked away from jobs or relationships when problems came up. I had to learn to address my problems in a calm, adult way. It was hard, but it can be learned.
As an adult that meant I walked away from jobs or relationships when problems came up. I had to learn to address my problems in a calm, adult way. It was hard, but it can be learned.
Also, I'm really really averse to confrontation. I feel extremely threatened by it, and whenever any confrontation - or even just disagreement - starts to come up, my adrenaline starts pumping and I'm in full-on flight-or-fight mode. It's really draining. In fact, I just had a disagreement (fight? My fiancee says I was very rational, though I felt like I was being really aggressive) with our landlords last night, and I was roiling in shame and fear and aggressive energy the rest of the night, almost completely unable to focus on anything else.
I don't want to feel like this about confrontation and disagreements anymore. I feel like I don't have to -- it's certainly not functional (in the Woititz "normal" vs. "functional" context). I'm not totally sure how to get to the other side and recover from this, but my hope is that the more times I stand up for what I believe and feel, it'll get easier. We'll see!
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Originally Posted by dothi
Seconding GiveLove - I found that embracing my flaws really strengthened my character. For example, I used to get high anxiety at meetings and beat myself up for not being able to remember enough ("I should have known that" type of self-talk). It would take me directly back to the times when I fumbled in explaining something to my AF, and he would make me feel like the smallest person in the room because I said butterfly instead of dragonfly (or some other trivial slip-up). I got the, "don't you know what the difference is? you should know what the difference is... how will you ever be ____ if you can't tell the difference between yadda yadda ya..." <- [Enter world of unreasonable expectations *here*]
I can definitely relate to the memory thing, and beating yourself up for it. Do you think that your memory is affected by your anxiety? My therapist once mentioned how, as ACoAs, it's difficult to remember peoples' names when we meet them, because we're so ramped up and are focusing on their emotions, and ours. That really hit home for me.
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Originally Posted by grewupinabarn
On the subject of course corrections, a lot of us may also have a perfectionist outlook on treatment, that it MUST work 100% and rid us of ALL faults that gets in the way of recovery. Or, even worse, I have to make the therapist happy that he/she is doing a good job. As charlie brown said, 'AAAGGHHHH'!
How many self-help books have I bought because they were very highly recommended, only to be too scared to read them, lest I reach the end and still have problems? I'd be embarrassed to admit how many!
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Originally Posted by Lenore
I'm trying to go a little easier on myself now. I went to Germany last year (running away again? lol) and during my stay and for about a week afterwards I felt at peace for the first time that I can ever remember. I'm attempting to work that sense of calm and letting go of my fears into my everyday life.
What you've hit on there is incredibly important. I've felt that feeling too; usually it happens when I go on a trip, and I'm the only one around.
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I have an inkling that novelty is alluring to us. I think it's because new things aren't tainted by memories, and new people can't have expectations of us. We can just do whatever we want, and somehow we're "off the hook" for everything.
I wish this topic were explored further in the literature; I think it's very important.
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Originally Posted by bragi
Lenore,
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I have an inkling that novelty is alluring to us. I think it's because new things aren't tainted by memories, and new people can't have expectations of us. We can just do whatever we want, and somehow we're "off the hook" for everything.
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I have an inkling that novelty is alluring to us. I think it's because new things aren't tainted by memories, and new people can't have expectations of us. We can just do whatever we want, and somehow we're "off the hook" for everything.
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