Experiences with Meetings

Old 03-16-2009, 09:16 AM
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Experiences with Meetings

I would love to go to a great meeting. So far, I've had horrible luck. I went to an Alanon meeting where I live. It was run well, but I had a hard time relating to people because they were mainly the wives of. There aren't alateen meetings where I'm going to college though.

So I'm home for spring break, and there is a town close that has alateen meetings. So my brother and I went yesterday. It was absolutely horrible. Let's just say they were planned poorly, the last 15 minutes were used purely for socializing since they ran out of things to do, and one of the leaders told a drinking joke....

I know that meetings can be run well, but I'm just wondering if anyone has any positive experiences from one. On another note, I'm not religious and I have a hard time with alanon. It's like going to church for me. We read out of a book, a sort of bible, we give an offering, and we end with a prayer. I just want to talk to other people who have had the same experiences as me. But we never talk about that, we just read and talk about God. Why is it so difficult to just talk? I don't get it. I've never tried ACoA meetings (there's none around me) but do they have them same spirituality in it constantly?
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:00 AM
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I dunno, dolce. I'm not a religious person at all, so I had to find a meeting where the focus was on a 'higher power' and not heavily religious. I looked around for quite a while before finding one that suited me, but I'm glad I did. I also had to try a meeting more than once....not everybody's on their "A Game" every night.....and try to keep a handle on my judgment. Even meetings with married people had something to teach me.

Counseling helped me even more, if you have a chance to do that....

Good luck
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:53 PM
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It is a really good idea to check out different meetings. While many alanon meetings tend to have alot of 'wives of', this is not true of all. You have to shop around a bit. You can also ask attendees at one meeting about others in the area. It is amazing how much some alanoner's know about other local meetings (who attends, age range, format, how comfortable the chairs are, lighting, books available).
If an ACOA meeting is centered on the 12 steps, it will likely have a big spirituality component. A fundamental part of any 12 step program is putting a higher power in charge, and prayer/meditation is really part of that process. But no one should be trying to convert you or force you to say any particular prayer. It should not matter to anyone in an alanon meeting what your concept of a higher power is (Goddess, gods, trees, rocks, extra-terrestrials, all of the above). Check out the postings for Step 2 in the 12-step studies on this forum, and you will see that even atheists use the 12 steps.
Don't be put off by a disappointing meeting. Many years back when I finally got the courage to attend an alanon meeting in my city, I called a phone number, got some locations and times (this was pre-internet), and went to the closest one that very night. It turned out to be a gay-lesbian alanon meeting. I was welcomed and they were friendly, but it wasn't quite the meeting I was looking for.
My only real problem, looking back, was not keeping up with the meetings that I did enjoy. Now THAT was a mistake.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:32 AM
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I have not had good experiences with Al-Anon or Alateen. I haven't tried ACOA.

I don't support the eternal 12 step model for family members of alcoholics and addicts. (If the 12 steps worked for you on this issue, please don't flame me. I fully support anyone using anything that works for them. It just didn't work for this issue FOR ME.)

For my ACOA issues, I've had good experiences with therapy. You might want to try a therapist.

I used AA to recover from alcoholism, so I'm not anti-12 steps. I just don't find the 12 Steps that useful for family members, who are more sinned against than sinning. I find that most family members are loving, normal people who are responding as best they can to an abnormal situation created by the alcoholic or addict. While their behavior and emotional response can be warped by the situation, there isn't any underlying flaw in them that makes them "sick" in any sort of permanent way. I think the emphasis on the family members' inventory can be used by alcoholics and addicts in very unhealthy ways to blame the family for their own substance abuse.

Your reaction to the overt religious/spiritual practices of Al-Anon is pretty normal.
Early AA had a very high premium placed on spiritual practices (prayer, daily meditation, confession). Al-Anon was created to allow family members, (wives, mostly) to participate in the 12 step model of spirituality. You can call it a religion or a spiritual practice, whatever you like, but it was designed to let the family members share in the new AA members' experience with God/Higher Powers, prayer and meditation.
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:28 PM
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Thanks for the responses. I just am having a hard time connecting with anyone right now, including "close" friends. I'm trying to stay positive, but it's very hard. Every time I hear more about these meetings, I dread going to them. I don't like the 12 steps. I just want to talk to people about my experiences. They say that the healing process for ACoAs has to involve connection with other people. I go to these meetings and all they talk about is praying. I don't pray. I don't get to talk about my experiences or listen to others. I wish I had that option. I talk to my friends and they change the subject. It's like, I'm actually reaching out for help and it's not there. I'm going to therapy, but it's like... she's so positive and wants me to be. I always have to leave being positive, acting like she's helping me. I'm not very positive.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dolce7dolore View Post
Thanks for the responses. I just am having a hard time connecting with anyone right now, including "close" friends. I'm trying to stay positive, but it's very hard. Every time I hear more about these meetings, I dread going to them. I don't like the 12 steps. I just want to talk to people about my experiences. They say that the healing process for ACoAs has to involve connection with other people. I go to these meetings and all they talk about is praying. I don't pray. I don't get to talk about my experiences or listen to others. I wish I had that option. I talk to my friends and they change the subject. It's like, I'm actually reaching out for help and it's not there. I'm going to therapy, but it's like... she's so positive and wants me to be. I always have to leave being positive, acting like she's helping me. I'm not very positive.
I hear what you're saying -- but just sharing your experiences isn't enough; if it were, there would be no need for a "program," per se.

I'm basically an atheist, in that I do not believe that there is a divine being up there (or out there, or whatever) watching over us. It grates on me when I hear someone in a meeting go on and on about how they feel "blessed" and how they owe it all to "my higher power, whom I choose to call God." That comes across, to me, as sanctimonious and know-it-all. But that's part of the "leave the rest," as in "take what you like and leave the rest."

But the thing is, just sharing experiences doesn't help you move forward. It helps you realize you're not alone -- and that's important -- but to "get better," you have to roll up your sleeves and work at it.

As far as I'm concerned, the 12 Steps are NOT a sequential 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12 program that Must Be Done In Order Or You're Not Doing It Right... but they embody a lot of important therapeutic ideas that help you deal with the effects of... whatever it is you're dealing with. I don't worry too much about "where I am in the 12 Steps," or any of that. I have never sat down and done a Fourth Step Inventory™ with a sponsor -- yeah, it's on my eventual list of things to do, but 13 years in, I still haven't got to it yet.

But there's a reason why you need some structure, and why the program works a certain way. Some meetings end up being just random sharing about whatever's on the person's mind -- but those types of people tend to stagnate and say the same things meeting after meeting, year after year, without really "getting it."

Try as many different meetings as you can -- that's easier with Al-Anon than ACOA, because there are far fewer ACOA groups -- and find one you like. That's the best you can do. Oh -- and get a copy of Courage to Change and/or the other daily meditation books....

T
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:47 AM
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Dolce,
Yes, meetings are there for sharing experiences, but as tromboneliness pointed out, there is more to it.
Sharing is just part of the process. The process, the thing we want and need, is recovery from the effects of growing up in an alcoholic home.

You said you are not positive, and that is OK, but do you believe that you could become more positive? Are there habits and ways of thinking (as in that list of ACOA characteristics in the stickies) that you have and would like to get rid of?

Think of it this way:
Do you want to change?
Five years from now, if someone came to you with an experience like yours, could you be the kind of person who could give some good advice?

If it is a yes to change, then you are asking for a Recovery. Recovery takes work, and some of that work takes time and is not fun. Actually some of it really sucks and can be painful. But you get to put behind you the cr** you grew up with and bring out the great person inside you.
Basically, you have to do some brain surgery on yourself, and it is not something you really ought to do without some help. That is where stuff like the 12 steps and/or therapy comes in. Its has worked for a lot of people and I certainly can't come up with anything better (and I have tried - oh yeah have I tried).

The idea is to take little steps forward. I like to hear someone sharing but I also need to hear how that sharing fits into their recovery, how it is a little step forward. Its just something ya gotta have.
Frankly, I will take a meeting of gays/lesbians (been there), or a bunch of wives (been there), or dung-worshiping wiccans (not yet), where people are talking about little imperfect steps of progress, over a share-fest (been there, more like a yawn-fest) of my peers.
This, again, is just my lame ol' opinion.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:50 PM
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I'm going to therapy, but it's like... she's so positive and wants me to be. I always have to leave being positive, acting like she's helping me.
And would your therapist agree that you "have to leave being positive"? Does she bar the door and force you to smile or something? Sometimes we read more into this than is really there.

Does SHE know of any group therapy kinds of settings where you could get together with others and talk it out? If you try a few different meetings and find that you just don't care for the thought of a higher power, the 12 steps, or listening to/sharing with al-anon people, maybe you should stop wasting your time with it.

I too wanted my friends to just listen to me and my problems and my history, and offer me "help" (whatever I thought that might be). I don't have any of those friends any more. I burned them out with needing them to understand what they couldn't understand, and they slowly stopped answering the phone when I called. I blamed them then. I don't blame them now.

Recovery is hard work. We have to want to change, as grewupinabarn points out. And that can be the toughest part of all. For many years, I was too in love with my own sweet sadness to really want it, and I stayed stuck right where I was.

Just my own journey....you actual miles may vary...
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:08 PM
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Forgot to say this:
Recovery - with the steps, therapy, good meetings, reading books, whatever - helps you shield yourself from any c*** that is currently going on. You can maintain your own sanity and not let the insanity of your family shake you up. Lots of teens don't have much of a choice about leaving home so they work at setting up boundaries and detaching from the addicted parents.
Another option for meetings are the online groups (see the meetings page of the alanon web site). From what I hear, and experienced, the quality varies widely. The last meeting I logged onto was just a lot of ranting and swearing.
Happy Spring!
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:51 PM
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Hi Dolce-
I really enjoyed hearing you speak whats on your heart, frustrations and all. I can completely relate to what you said and how you feel.

The truth is you are human and you have alot of different emotions and needs, and they are ever changing. I applaud you for talking about your needs and your desire to have them met. It is hard to find that connection you are seeking, but I believe it is out there for you. I am glad to hear you have your brother, that must be nice for you.

One thing I have always loved about AA, and all related groups, is the model they base things off of. I think in so many ways it is far better/healthier way of loving than any church I have ever been to. The whole idea of getting together and talking about loss, hurt, areas where we struggle, anger, regret, fear, bitterness, healing, ways we have been harmed, ways we have been harmful, etc. is such a great thing to aspire to do. I hear you and your desire to be known and loved and supported. I think you will find that if you keep looking. Sorry you have not YET.

I also understand TOTALLY about the therapy thing! I found numerous therapists like that. I had to keep searching to find the right one for me, and it was discouraging and exhausting at times. I was also very frustrated! Even when I developed the ability to tell a therapist EXACTLY what I needed I was met with resistance. Alot of the world just wants everything to "get better" .The thing is feeling loss, grieving, and making room for all of who you are is whats going to help you get better. For me, I did not want mantra's, behavioral changes, a "plan" on how to feel better. I really wanted to not just feel better, but be better, and understand who I was, validate what I had been through, grieve over mistreatment, and celebrate over my desire for more. You deserve people to love all of you, not just the optimistic parts of you. I have let go of alot of people in my life that only valued the "happy me", I know have a smaller(but growing) group of people that love ALL of me, and it is a great safe, and wonderful feeling. I share in their pain, and they share in mine. I don't have to be fake, or pretend, or put out false energy, or talk about bs! Life is not perfect don't get me wrong. Facing your pain is soo hard, it's why most people never do and opt for a life of pretense.

You sound like you have an amazing,wonderful will about you and a love of truth(no matter the cost). I sincerely hope you keep seeking and wholeheartedly believe you will find what you need. I don't think you are going to settle for less! GOOD FOR YOU!


Much love-
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:48 AM
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***Please be forewarned, if you are very religious and take offense at others speaking about beliefs against it, please don't read further. I respect everyone's beliefs and do not judge or criticize others and I do not wish to persuade anyone.

I really do appreciate all of the responses. I don't know if this is considered giving up or not, but I don't think I'll return to an al-anon meeting again. It's not that I don't want to get help, even in a setting with others, it's just that I can't get past the spiritual thing. I can see agnostics getting through the program, because they don't define a "god" just a spiritual power. I don't believe in any higher power at all. Yeah, maybe this has something to do with being an ACoA, but it's more of a rational decision for me. I'm not angry with "God," I am just an atheist and that's my choice.

So that's why it's hard for me to go to one of those meetings. I don't have the 12 steps memorized, but pretty much all of them talk about letting things go to a "higher power." That we need to understand there's something "more" than us. On a very close philosophical level, I can never agree with those statements. I believe instead, that it is up to ME alone to change MYSELF. It is not the job of some nonexistent spirit to help me out. Therefore, how can I ever become better by following those steps? It also reinforces to me (this is cause by being an ACoA) that I'm not good enough, that I don't fit in with other people. Isolation. And so I think I'm going to stick to reading self-help books.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:21 AM
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You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Copied from Zencat's post in the Secular Forum, where I sometimes go when I need to remind myself that everyone deserves recovery (call it peace of mind, serenity, pursuit of happiness, whatever), there are many avenues to recovery, and there is abundant support (listening, sharing, or polite criticism) for anyone's recovery no matter who they are or what path they choose.

I actually like to hear someone dis' God every now and then.
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Old 04-03-2009, 01:19 PM
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Dolce, I'll share about my struggle with HP and how I finally figured out how to overcome that barrier and still benefit from a 12-step program. Maybe some of this will speak to you.

I struggled with the concept of HP (and all the religious undertones that come with that) until I finally realized: the point of "giving it up to HP" is about trusting that I'll get the answers if I get out of my own head. Example: when I am trying to remember something, but it won't come to me, the minute I stop thinking about it (when I finally get out of my own head, and I stop trying to figure it out), the answer comes to me. That's the key: the answers come to me when I stop trying... when I give it up. It's not about believing in a spirit being that's out there waiting to solve my problems. It's about believing that the answers are there (within me, or outside of me, it doesn't matter) but that they will come to me, if I allow them. But I do have to allow some space in there (my mind) for them to come. If I am constantly analyzing and trying to figure it out, there's not a lot of room for the answers to surface. For me, the answers come from within. After I do everything in my power to solve something, and it's still not working, that's when I give it up... to the HP of my understanding (in my case, a mix of philosophies, not religion nor supreme beings. You'd be surprised what folks consider their HP, probably not what you think!) I can imagine someone using their heart as their HP. Can you trust your heart? Your subconscious mind? These are all parts of you and so would honor your stated belief in yourself.

Re: meetings and shares. If folks aren't sharing at your meetings, is it stated anywhere that you can't share? Maybe everybody is waiting for someone else to share. Be the change that you want to see.

Take care of yourself, you are already on your path of healing!
elena
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:12 AM
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My Higher Power is my inner compass.

I believe that we're all dealt a full set of cards when we're born. I also believe we don't use most of them because, especially as ACOAs, we're taught not to listen to the small voices inside us that tell us the right thing to do to survive and thrive as animals.

Recovery has taught me that there's this really wise core in me that -- if I listen -- will guide me in lots of ways.

So my HP is this basic wisdom, this intuitive knowledge that I think we all have in our gray matter. That, and the concepts of "like attracts like" and selective perception of the world around us.....well, that's what makes happen the things I want & need to happen. Some people label those instincts "god" or a supreme being, but I'm a scientist at heart, and that's what works for me.

Just a different perspective (from someone who doesn't believe in a gray-bearded guy on a throne in the sky.....)
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