to move or not to move...
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14
to move or not to move...
I am 23, married to my soulmate, he is in recovery too from the effects of addict parents as well. I have two amazing children and a nephew (who is one of my kids too, but for explanation sake I seperated) who we are about to adopt...
Anyways, we live close to both of our immediate families. His mom is in a halfway house trying to get her life together, his dad is an active alcoholic. His sister (the nephew's mom) is in jail for failing a drug test while on probation My dad is, well, a hot mess. My mom was the alcoholic, but he is far from heathly and our relationship has mannnnny issues.
The reason we have hung around as long as we have is because of our siblings, I have a sister and a brother and he has a brother, all of which are younger. We feel we need to be there for them... But, my sister is engaged and very wrapped up in her man and his life, my brother is too busy to be helped (he's a highschool football player in TX, wha can I say?) and my brother-in-law is doing EXCELLENT, going to college to become an engineer. We are an active part of each of their lives but nothing extradionary. My point being, I think they are all doing ok, and I want to move for me and my immediate family.
I think it would be healthy for us to get away from all this mess. I have an aunt who I admire SO much, who has had her share of crazy, but only in her younger days. She is happily married (35 years now, or close to it), has four grown children who are all doing well for themselves and who have kids close to my kids age. I think it would be so nice to live near them. They are all so close and a great support to one another!! My aunt was like a mom to my mom, so she seems like a natural "mom replacement" to me, which is what I feel like I really need right now. I also think it will be REALLY good for my nephew to get away from his mom and all the drama that is constantly going on!
Anyways... I just wanted to see if anyone else has left the bad to start over... Did it work out? Do you get over the guilt of deserting those you feel need your help?? Any advice, comments?? I appreciate any words of wisdom!!!
Anyways, we live close to both of our immediate families. His mom is in a halfway house trying to get her life together, his dad is an active alcoholic. His sister (the nephew's mom) is in jail for failing a drug test while on probation My dad is, well, a hot mess. My mom was the alcoholic, but he is far from heathly and our relationship has mannnnny issues.
The reason we have hung around as long as we have is because of our siblings, I have a sister and a brother and he has a brother, all of which are younger. We feel we need to be there for them... But, my sister is engaged and very wrapped up in her man and his life, my brother is too busy to be helped (he's a highschool football player in TX, wha can I say?) and my brother-in-law is doing EXCELLENT, going to college to become an engineer. We are an active part of each of their lives but nothing extradionary. My point being, I think they are all doing ok, and I want to move for me and my immediate family.
I think it would be healthy for us to get away from all this mess. I have an aunt who I admire SO much, who has had her share of crazy, but only in her younger days. She is happily married (35 years now, or close to it), has four grown children who are all doing well for themselves and who have kids close to my kids age. I think it would be so nice to live near them. They are all so close and a great support to one another!! My aunt was like a mom to my mom, so she seems like a natural "mom replacement" to me, which is what I feel like I really need right now. I also think it will be REALLY good for my nephew to get away from his mom and all the drama that is constantly going on!
Anyways... I just wanted to see if anyone else has left the bad to start over... Did it work out? Do you get over the guilt of deserting those you feel need your help?? Any advice, comments?? I appreciate any words of wisdom!!!
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Funny, I've been tempted to post here lately about how moving away from my family has played out for me. Random thoughts ensue... 
Definitely prepare yourself to let go of feeling like you need to hang around for your siblings. I know it's not something you just switch off. But considering it sounds like you and your partner have both played parentified roles in your family, now that your siblings are independent adults, be prepared to let them live their lives. They'll make mistakes and poor judgements, screw up, even come crying home. Just remind yourself that these are *their* lives to lead, and their failures are NOT a reflection of you (or the role you've played in your family).
Maybe you already have a healthy balance with this (good!). But if it's something you haven't thought about, keep it in mind for the first several months after you move. I really do understand what you're saying about having hung around. I am the oldest of three children, and I hung around for years because I was afraid that things would go flying apart if I was too far (who was going to take the time to make my sister's graduation or my brother's birthday special?).
If fears are playing on you (will they be upset with me for leaving?), considering having a good visit with each of your siblings. Reaffirm your ADULT role in their ADULT lives. See for yourself that they are mature, confident people who can take care of themselves. And of course, let them know that they can phone you ANYtime.
Remind yourself it's time for change. Afterall, you are re-inventing yourself by putting a healthy distance between you and the messy bad. It stands to reason that your other relationships are going to be impacted by this move as well.
The guilt coming from my parents was the most challenging as the move began to take off (AF, codie mom). They were still coming to terms that it was actually happening. The elaborate passive-aggressive tactics to convince me to stay stopped, but the emotional attachment still came 100% strong. Though both eventually accepted that I was leaving, my dad still could not stop himself from getting absolutely pissed at the neighbourhood bar-b-que which my mom organized as my send-off. He even tried to talk to me about how I was *finally* leaving (like it was my funeral or something). I said I would only talk about this while he was sober. I wasn't going to put up with one more feel-so-sorry-for-me-that's-why-I-need-you-to-stay-here ******** conversation that he was going to forget in the morning - not one more! He threw a tantrum and went to bed.
The next morning, we had a quiet serious talk. More of me playing therapist (I really can't squirm out of this role when I am with him, and when he is giving me his 100% victim mentality; it's like all the walls of my reality warp to fit his perspective). I reminded myself the entire time that I am not coming back to live like this again. I reassured him that *it* was not his fault (even though it was) just to get off that property without another dramatic incident.
Since then, I have limited the number of phone calls home (once or twice a month is PLENTY), and I'm finding that the RELIEF of not having to face the dysfunctional parents INCREDIBLE. For the first time in years I had a lovely, pleasant holiday not shrouded in anger, frustration, depression, and drama. My partner and I wanted it to set the stage for the rest of our holidays together, and succeeded.
However I've also noticed a lot of other angry feelings bubble to the surface since I moved away, as I realize more and more how dysfunctional my relationship with my family was. It's almost like I had to live in denial of all the feelings of being taken advantage and disrespected in order to survive it. This part has been difficult (what to do with all this repressed anger? coming to terms with how I'll never have my early 20s back because I *chose* to spend it "fixing" them). But it has also helped me be grateful for my own accomplishments and the healthy people I do have in my life.
Sorry if too much of this reply is me venting - if one feeling comes out, they all come rushing out
Voting in favour of your move. It may be the healthiest decision you'll make at this point in your life (FWIW 23 is NOT old); there are *many* people here who regret not making a choice like this much earlier in their lives. Good luck!
Definitely prepare yourself to let go of feeling like you need to hang around for your siblings. I know it's not something you just switch off. But considering it sounds like you and your partner have both played parentified roles in your family, now that your siblings are independent adults, be prepared to let them live their lives. They'll make mistakes and poor judgements, screw up, even come crying home. Just remind yourself that these are *their* lives to lead, and their failures are NOT a reflection of you (or the role you've played in your family).
Maybe you already have a healthy balance with this (good!). But if it's something you haven't thought about, keep it in mind for the first several months after you move. I really do understand what you're saying about having hung around. I am the oldest of three children, and I hung around for years because I was afraid that things would go flying apart if I was too far (who was going to take the time to make my sister's graduation or my brother's birthday special?).
If fears are playing on you (will they be upset with me for leaving?), considering having a good visit with each of your siblings. Reaffirm your ADULT role in their ADULT lives. See for yourself that they are mature, confident people who can take care of themselves. And of course, let them know that they can phone you ANYtime.
Remind yourself it's time for change. Afterall, you are re-inventing yourself by putting a healthy distance between you and the messy bad. It stands to reason that your other relationships are going to be impacted by this move as well.
The guilt coming from my parents was the most challenging as the move began to take off (AF, codie mom). They were still coming to terms that it was actually happening. The elaborate passive-aggressive tactics to convince me to stay stopped, but the emotional attachment still came 100% strong. Though both eventually accepted that I was leaving, my dad still could not stop himself from getting absolutely pissed at the neighbourhood bar-b-que which my mom organized as my send-off. He even tried to talk to me about how I was *finally* leaving (like it was my funeral or something). I said I would only talk about this while he was sober. I wasn't going to put up with one more feel-so-sorry-for-me-that's-why-I-need-you-to-stay-here ******** conversation that he was going to forget in the morning - not one more! He threw a tantrum and went to bed.
The next morning, we had a quiet serious talk. More of me playing therapist (I really can't squirm out of this role when I am with him, and when he is giving me his 100% victim mentality; it's like all the walls of my reality warp to fit his perspective). I reminded myself the entire time that I am not coming back to live like this again. I reassured him that *it* was not his fault (even though it was) just to get off that property without another dramatic incident.
Since then, I have limited the number of phone calls home (once or twice a month is PLENTY), and I'm finding that the RELIEF of not having to face the dysfunctional parents INCREDIBLE. For the first time in years I had a lovely, pleasant holiday not shrouded in anger, frustration, depression, and drama. My partner and I wanted it to set the stage for the rest of our holidays together, and succeeded.
However I've also noticed a lot of other angry feelings bubble to the surface since I moved away, as I realize more and more how dysfunctional my relationship with my family was. It's almost like I had to live in denial of all the feelings of being taken advantage and disrespected in order to survive it. This part has been difficult (what to do with all this repressed anger? coming to terms with how I'll never have my early 20s back because I *chose* to spend it "fixing" them). But it has also helped me be grateful for my own accomplishments and the healthy people I do have in my life.
Sorry if too much of this reply is me venting - if one feeling comes out, they all come rushing out
Voting in favour of your move. It may be the healthiest decision you'll make at this point in your life (FWIW 23 is NOT old); there are *many* people here who regret not making a choice like this much earlier in their lives. Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
My vote would be not to move. It's the old "geographical cure," and I can tell you, from experience, that it does not work.
Work your program in place, where you are. If these people are toxic, set boundaries and stick to them. If you pack up and move away to "make a new start," that's a prescription for disappointment -- because your brain goes with you, wherever you go.
What it amounts to is that the people in your family, troublesome though they may be, are not the ones who are causing trouble for you unless YOU allow it. Their problems are THEIR problems -- not your responsibility. If you want them out of your life, screen your phone calls, make yourself busy, and otherwise get uninvolved in their lives.
Packing up and leaving may sound like an easy solution, but it isn't. Or at least that's how it worked out for me.
T
Work your program in place, where you are. If these people are toxic, set boundaries and stick to them. If you pack up and move away to "make a new start," that's a prescription for disappointment -- because your brain goes with you, wherever you go.
What it amounts to is that the people in your family, troublesome though they may be, are not the ones who are causing trouble for you unless YOU allow it. Their problems are THEIR problems -- not your responsibility. If you want them out of your life, screen your phone calls, make yourself busy, and otherwise get uninvolved in their lives.
Packing up and leaving may sound like an easy solution, but it isn't. Or at least that's how it worked out for me.
T
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14
Thank you so much for your responses and insite!! Dothi, I appreciate your honesty and openness in your reply, it reassures me you truly understand my motives and even situation to a degree. I am so glad that it worked out for you! praying that you are strengthened during the emotional bubbling time. 
Oh - and a quick thanks for the age comment! I was just looking at pictures from when my daughter was little and thinking how much I have AGED (it is REALLY sad) from 3 years ago. Ah, sweet stress. lol!
Let me clarify: I am not trying to run from my problems; I am actually doing fairly well in the recovery process; however I am trying to provide a better life for my family and children. I want them to have "grandparents" that we don't have to set boundaries with or be to "busy" for so that their mess doesn't infilrate our lives. I want them to see how happy and heathly families can be and that mommys, or grandparents don't always make bad choices that hurt us - or that in order to protect ourselves we need to isolate ourselves from everyone! I don't feel that is a very healthy teaching.
Sorry, kind of thinking out loud in addition to responding. I really appreciate you both taking the time to respond and give me your opinion!!
Oh - and a quick thanks for the age comment! I was just looking at pictures from when my daughter was little and thinking how much I have AGED (it is REALLY sad) from 3 years ago. Ah, sweet stress. lol!
Let me clarify: I am not trying to run from my problems; I am actually doing fairly well in the recovery process; however I am trying to provide a better life for my family and children. I want them to have "grandparents" that we don't have to set boundaries with or be to "busy" for so that their mess doesn't infilrate our lives. I want them to see how happy and heathly families can be and that mommys, or grandparents don't always make bad choices that hurt us - or that in order to protect ourselves we need to isolate ourselves from everyone! I don't feel that is a very healthy teaching.
Sorry, kind of thinking out loud in addition to responding. I really appreciate you both taking the time to respond and give me your opinion!!
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by jenn03 
Let me clarify: I am not trying to run from my problems; I am actually doing fairly well in the recovery process; however I am trying to provide a better life for my family and children. I want them to have "grandparents" that we don't have to set boundaries with or be to "busy" for so that their mess doesn't infilrate our lives.
But I will suggest a book that I first read many years ago, and which has helped me a lot: "When I say no, I feel Guilty" by Manuel J. Smith. He's a psychologist, and the book is about assertiveness training, which is a great way to recognize how people try to control and manipulate you -- and he gives specific techniques and exercises you can use to develop the skills to be assertive and not get sucked into doing what other people -- family, co-workers, bosses, anyone -- want you to do. It came out in the '70s but was a big seller, so you can get it for $1.00 in any used bookstore, or it's probably still in print, for all I know.
Anyhow, move if you want... but wherever you are, learn how to set boundaries, stick to them, and just not fall for the manipulative cr*p that dysfunctional people will try to lay on you. It's hard, and it's something you have to consciously practice, to develop the ability. Sort of like practicing... trombone!
T
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Jenn, my sympathy is with you because, although I'm pretty darned good at setting and keeping my own boundaries, I don't know how I would do if I had a single-digit-year-old tugging at my sleeve begging to see grandpa. SHE could hardly understand the nightmare that would ensue, and I know I'd be sorely tempted to make sure she didn't have to.
I know that I didn't truly start to get better until I put some distance between myself and my sick family of origin. I can now deal with them pretty well because I backed completely out of the psychosis and then gave myself small , graduated doses of them as my recovery improved. It's like therapies around phobias....if someone's afraid of bats, they start small and ramp it up rather than tossing them into Carlsbad Caverns until they get better.
Good luck with your decision -- I'm impressed by how good a mom you are!!
I know that I didn't truly start to get better until I put some distance between myself and my sick family of origin. I can now deal with them pretty well because I backed completely out of the psychosis and then gave myself small , graduated doses of them as my recovery improved. It's like therapies around phobias....if someone's afraid of bats, they start small and ramp it up rather than tossing them into Carlsbad Caverns until they get better.
Good luck with your decision -- I'm impressed by how good a mom you are!!
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere but the mainstream.
Posts: 402
Tromboneliness raises an excellent point. Moving won't make the feelings go away, and it won't automatically free you from the family drama. That will still depend on your ability to set up boundaries with these people and maintain them. Don't be angry or disappointed if after the move, you still feel entrenched. That will be a clear sign that your recovery still needs work (although you do sound pretty well-grounded in your progress).
It may just be my experience, but when I'm around my parents I find I cannot always keep up the constant vigilance that boundaries require. Even though it's only my dad who drinks, my codie mom is like his echo; she has minimal identity of her own, and so dealing with them together is a double dose of unhealthy behavior. And I just don't have enough energy for it. When I'm with them, even though they say they respect me, I'm still slowly argued down, reasoned out of, and dismissed of my own feelings. Every time I left their company, I felt drained and depressed. The longer the visit, the worse I was.
For me, distance was a very healthy choice.
I can't imagine how much more exhausting it would be with young children in tow. If your kids have a good foundation of what healthy behavior is, they'll be equipped to handle the not-so-stable grandparents just fine. They won't be warped by the perception that these behaviors are "normal". They'll still know their relatives, since you're moving closer to another branch of the family. You're readjusting so that your family can breathe better. I still think a lot of good will come from that
It may just be my experience, but when I'm around my parents I find I cannot always keep up the constant vigilance that boundaries require. Even though it's only my dad who drinks, my codie mom is like his echo; she has minimal identity of her own, and so dealing with them together is a double dose of unhealthy behavior. And I just don't have enough energy for it. When I'm with them, even though they say they respect me, I'm still slowly argued down, reasoned out of, and dismissed of my own feelings. Every time I left their company, I felt drained and depressed. The longer the visit, the worse I was.
For me, distance was a very healthy choice.
I can't imagine how much more exhausting it would be with young children in tow. If your kids have a good foundation of what healthy behavior is, they'll be equipped to handle the not-so-stable grandparents just fine. They won't be warped by the perception that these behaviors are "normal". They'll still know their relatives, since you're moving closer to another branch of the family. You're readjusting so that your family can breathe better. I still think a lot of good will come from that
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Thank you all so much!!! I really appreciate the words of wisdom. And I completely agree - boundaries are so important and something I am working on. I need A LOT of practice! I think it is a skill that no matter where I am, I need to focus on and I REALLY appreciate that reminder!!
I think another thing is I just need support! here I have unhealthy family and friends that don't truly understand. Like today was a REALLY rough day in mourning my mom (she died three weeks ago) and I feel completely alone. I just want someone to hug me and tell me it's ok to miss her and to be sad, and there's no one. I need that, especially to be a good mom to my kids!!!
I need A LOT of practice! I think it is a skill that no matter where I am, I need to focus on and I REALLY appreciate that reminder!! I think another thing is I just need support! here I have unhealthy family and friends that don't truly understand. Like today was a REALLY rough day in mourning my mom (she died three weeks ago) and I feel completely alone. I just want someone to hug me and tell me it's ok to miss her and to be sad, and there's no one. I need that, especially to be a good mom to my kids!!!
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
Jenn,
Yes, yes it is very OK to miss your mom and be sad. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. In time you will have happy memories that will stay with you forever and you can pass those on to your children.
I lost my mom in my first year of college and just tried to 'put it behind me' and put on a happy freshman face. Not recommended for any sort of sanity. I hope you can find some people to talk to in the coming months - talking really helps even if it is just reminiscing. You can obviously post here too.
And some hugs to you -
<<****((Jenn))}}>>
Regarding the move - I can tell you that the relocation does not solve alcoholism & family issues. My issues stuck with me when I moved away for 4 years - but I wasn't in any recovery program. I was just chasing a career and hoping the relocation would solve the many issues that I now know are ACOA-initiated. But it does sound like you are progressing on a program. It may also help if you will be near people who you know will strengthen you.
Yes, yes it is very OK to miss your mom and be sad. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. In time you will have happy memories that will stay with you forever and you can pass those on to your children.
I lost my mom in my first year of college and just tried to 'put it behind me' and put on a happy freshman face. Not recommended for any sort of sanity. I hope you can find some people to talk to in the coming months - talking really helps even if it is just reminiscing. You can obviously post here too.
And some hugs to you -
<<****((Jenn))}}>>
Regarding the move - I can tell you that the relocation does not solve alcoholism & family issues. My issues stuck with me when I moved away for 4 years - but I wasn't in any recovery program. I was just chasing a career and hoping the relocation would solve the many issues that I now know are ACOA-initiated. But it does sound like you are progressing on a program. It may also help if you will be near people who you know will strengthen you.
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