Just Gotta Get it Out....
I like cereal!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 30
Just Gotta Get it Out.... Today I read a Thanksgiving card from my sister. (I'm the youngest of five girls). She wrote that Thanksgiving always makes her think of our parents because they loved it so much. It causes me to think of them as well. :thank1
Thanksgiving was my mother's favorite holiday because it was the least commercialized, among other reasons. Usually we would go to my Aunts house. I would anticipate it but I always knew that the grown-ups would be roaring drunk by that evening.
Anyway, I eagerly began to read my mother's letter to my sister which included her delicious stuffing recipe as well as how to cook a turkey.
The letter was dated 10/84 which is after I had graduated high school in June, 1984. I was homeless during the months of May and June because my mother had lost her job. By July 1, 1984 - I had an apartment and a job to support my mother. I was grimly proud of this. Didn't this prove I was a 'good girl'?
I'm sure I was a difficult child. I know that I gave my mother a hard time and that she never really liked me. Oh I know she loved me, but she never liked me. Ironically it is how I feel about my sisters right now.
In this seven page letter from October 1984, my mother details how to cook a turkey and make the stuffing. She goes on and on about two sisters who lived close and how they are always helping her and "good kids". She goes on about the recipient sister's life in TX. She writes extensively about my other sister who was in the Navy at that time and going through a divorce.
The only time she mentions me is to say that we're going to the Aunt's for Thanksgiving.
None of this is a surprise to me. I fully realize that I was not her favorite child. She always favored my older sisters.
But WOW, does it hurt. Not one single word about me while I was busting my ass to support her. I was 18 and had just graduated high school!!!
*Sighs heavily* I realize that she certainly mentioned me in other letters to my sisters (not that I'd want to read what she wrote, probably).
But.....ouch. It really hurts my heart. :banghead:
I sat down so eager to read my mother's Thanksgiving recipes but now, I think I'll just start my own traditions.
My sisters do not understand any of how I feel when I attempt to discuss it because they are too involved in it with their own feelings. They just think of me as the 'spoiled brat', which admittedly, I was before my father died in 1976. He and I were very close.
After he died, though, and I emerged from the shock of his loss, I tried desperately to reach out to my mother. I figured in my childish mind that she and I had loved Dad best so no one could really understand the loss like she and I could.
She wanted nothing to do with my overtures. She took her solace in the bottle. I took my solace in hiding and building emotional walls.
Damn. Why should this hurt so much still?
I need to forgive my mother anew, of course. She was doing the best she could at the time.
I hope God will grant me the grace to forgive her and to face my sisters on Thanksgiving Day. Thank you, Dear Friends, for reading thus far.:sorry
Thanksgiving was my mother's favorite holiday because it was the least commercialized, among other reasons. Usually we would go to my Aunts house. I would anticipate it but I always knew that the grown-ups would be roaring drunk by that evening.
Anyway, I eagerly began to read my mother's letter to my sister which included her delicious stuffing recipe as well as how to cook a turkey.
The letter was dated 10/84 which is after I had graduated high school in June, 1984. I was homeless during the months of May and June because my mother had lost her job. By July 1, 1984 - I had an apartment and a job to support my mother. I was grimly proud of this. Didn't this prove I was a 'good girl'?
I'm sure I was a difficult child. I know that I gave my mother a hard time and that she never really liked me. Oh I know she loved me, but she never liked me. Ironically it is how I feel about my sisters right now.
In this seven page letter from October 1984, my mother details how to cook a turkey and make the stuffing. She goes on and on about two sisters who lived close and how they are always helping her and "good kids". She goes on about the recipient sister's life in TX. She writes extensively about my other sister who was in the Navy at that time and going through a divorce.
The only time she mentions me is to say that we're going to the Aunt's for Thanksgiving.
None of this is a surprise to me. I fully realize that I was not her favorite child. She always favored my older sisters.
But WOW, does it hurt. Not one single word about me while I was busting my ass to support her. I was 18 and had just graduated high school!!!
*Sighs heavily* I realize that she certainly mentioned me in other letters to my sisters (not that I'd want to read what she wrote, probably).
But.....ouch. It really hurts my heart. :banghead:
I sat down so eager to read my mother's Thanksgiving recipes but now, I think I'll just start my own traditions.
My sisters do not understand any of how I feel when I attempt to discuss it because they are too involved in it with their own feelings. They just think of me as the 'spoiled brat', which admittedly, I was before my father died in 1976. He and I were very close.
After he died, though, and I emerged from the shock of his loss, I tried desperately to reach out to my mother. I figured in my childish mind that she and I had loved Dad best so no one could really understand the loss like she and I could.
She wanted nothing to do with my overtures. She took her solace in the bottle. I took my solace in hiding and building emotional walls.
Damn. Why should this hurt so much still?
I need to forgive my mother anew, of course. She was doing the best she could at the time.
I hope God will grant me the grace to forgive her and to face my sisters on Thanksgiving Day. Thank you, Dear Friends, for reading thus far.:sorry
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I think making new traditions sounds like wonderful idea, and maybe one day you can incorporate some of your Mother's recipes in there too, when you're ready.
I hope you have a fabulous Thanksgiving Cheese.
I hope you have a fabulous Thanksgiving Cheese.
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 163
Have you done any work with the roles that different kids take in an alcoholic family system? It can be very useful.
You sound like sometimes you took the role of the Problem Child. You tried to take on the role of the Hero, and did so practically, but you're not getting any recognition for it, because your family has cast you as the Problem Child. (In healthy families, these roles are more fluid. Any kid can be the Hero or the Problem. Healthy families reward incidents of behavior, not role-playing, and any kid is free to try out different kinds of behavior.)
It's actually sort of okay to be the Problem Child. I think that a lot of the people I know who were cast as the Problem Child end up getting healthier than their siblings. Problem Children get less reward from the alcoholic family system, so they're more likely to go out and build a better, healthier life for themselves. Kids trapped in other roles (the "good kid" roles -- Hero, Mascot, etc.) are more likely to stay in the sickness because they get rewards in addition to the craziness. It's ironic that so many of the Problem Children succeed so much as adults.
You sound really healthy. You have a good perspective of your good and bad behavior as a kid and young adult. It is sad and painful that your mom can't see you as a whole person.
You know, if Thanksgiving is too painful. You can just choose to skip it. I don't do it anymore. It was a bit of a family scandal the first year, but now "It's just the way Jane is." I told everyone that I love them, but I don't enjoy all the holiday stuff and I'm not doing it anymore. And I don't. They got over it.
You sound like sometimes you took the role of the Problem Child. You tried to take on the role of the Hero, and did so practically, but you're not getting any recognition for it, because your family has cast you as the Problem Child. (In healthy families, these roles are more fluid. Any kid can be the Hero or the Problem. Healthy families reward incidents of behavior, not role-playing, and any kid is free to try out different kinds of behavior.)
It's actually sort of okay to be the Problem Child. I think that a lot of the people I know who were cast as the Problem Child end up getting healthier than their siblings. Problem Children get less reward from the alcoholic family system, so they're more likely to go out and build a better, healthier life for themselves. Kids trapped in other roles (the "good kid" roles -- Hero, Mascot, etc.) are more likely to stay in the sickness because they get rewards in addition to the craziness. It's ironic that so many of the Problem Children succeed so much as adults.
You sound really healthy. You have a good perspective of your good and bad behavior as a kid and young adult. It is sad and painful that your mom can't see you as a whole person.
You know, if Thanksgiving is too painful. You can just choose to skip it. I don't do it anymore. It was a bit of a family scandal the first year, but now "It's just the way Jane is." I told everyone that I love them, but I don't enjoy all the holiday stuff and I'm not doing it anymore. And I don't. They got over it.
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
Cheese,
Enjoy your thanksgiving! You accomplished a lot in spite of your childhood, and that is something to be thankful for. I really admire what you did straight out of high school. Taking care of a parent is a lot to take on!
One thing many CoAs have trouble letting go of is the desire for approval from parents, who usually gave approval/disapproval inconsistently, or (in my case) randomly. The child gets stuck in a pattern of trying to figure out just what it takes to get the attention and care they deserve. Even acting out, being a problem, becomes a reasonable (to a child) response to unpredictable parents.
Your sisters may be dealing with their own issues from growing up, replaying roles from childhood that 'rewarded' them, according to the pattern Kallista so very very well described.
You can't control what others think of you and it is best to stop trying. You deserve better but your sisters can't get past the past. Enjoy the day on your own terms.
Have you tried al-anon meetings? The steps are very powerful and I have gotten alot from realizing that my old habits and hurtful ways of thinking can only be changed by that big HP, not me.
Enjoy the day and the big miraculous planet that made such a day possible!
Enjoy your thanksgiving! You accomplished a lot in spite of your childhood, and that is something to be thankful for. I really admire what you did straight out of high school. Taking care of a parent is a lot to take on!
One thing many CoAs have trouble letting go of is the desire for approval from parents, who usually gave approval/disapproval inconsistently, or (in my case) randomly. The child gets stuck in a pattern of trying to figure out just what it takes to get the attention and care they deserve. Even acting out, being a problem, becomes a reasonable (to a child) response to unpredictable parents.
Your sisters may be dealing with their own issues from growing up, replaying roles from childhood that 'rewarded' them, according to the pattern Kallista so very very well described.
You can't control what others think of you and it is best to stop trying. You deserve better but your sisters can't get past the past. Enjoy the day on your own terms.
Have you tried al-anon meetings? The steps are very powerful and I have gotten alot from realizing that my old habits and hurtful ways of thinking can only be changed by that big HP, not me.
Enjoy the day and the big miraculous planet that made such a day possible!
I like cereal!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 30
Wow!!! Holy Smokes - I am blown away by reading these insightful and super replies to my post! I felt like I was just being a "whiner". *Apologizes for being herself like a true codependent* 
Seriously, I was amazed at these responses and I hope you guys don't mind but I'm going to print them out and carry them in my purse on Thanksgiving. We're having our own dinner at our home since we just bought our first house this year.
But we're going to 'dessert' at my sister's home where all the family will be gathered and drunk by that time. I've decided to do a "time limit" so I know precisely when I can get out of there!!!
Kallista, thank you so much for your reply. I haven't read about the roles but it sounds just like my family.... You telling me that I seem "healthy" truly made my Thanksgiving! That's what I'm aiming for. I have no qualms about being the "Problem Child" as long as I get healthy for the rest of my life, you know? Thanks for your awesome comments. Happy Thanksgiving or whatever you choose to do that day, Dear!!!
Grewupinabarn, thank you for replying to my post!! I can't tell you what your kind words meant to me. It really made sense to me that my sisters are "stuck" in those roles from our childhoods. I really think they are. They still actually refer to this one or that one as the 'smart' one or the 'pretty' one. We're in our 40's and 50's for crying out loud!!!!!!! I haven't been to an Al-Anon meeting in years but I have recently started attending Celebrate Recovery meetings. I might see if there are any AlAnon I can attend before Thanksgiving - just for my own sanity. Have a Wonderful Thanksgiving Day, Kiddo!
Wow, I'm really amazed by your comments. Thank you all so much. You really helped me a lot.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO US ALL! :thank5
Big Hugs,
Cheese
Seriously, I was amazed at these responses and I hope you guys don't mind but I'm going to print them out and carry them in my purse on Thanksgiving. We're having our own dinner at our home since we just bought our first house this year.
But we're going to 'dessert' at my sister's home where all the family will be gathered and drunk by that time. I've decided to do a "time limit" so I know precisely when I can get out of there!!!Kallista, thank you so much for your reply. I haven't read about the roles but it sounds just like my family.... You telling me that I seem "healthy" truly made my Thanksgiving! That's what I'm aiming for. I have no qualms about being the "Problem Child" as long as I get healthy for the rest of my life, you know? Thanks for your awesome comments. Happy Thanksgiving or whatever you choose to do that day, Dear!!!
Grewupinabarn, thank you for replying to my post!! I can't tell you what your kind words meant to me. It really made sense to me that my sisters are "stuck" in those roles from our childhoods. I really think they are. They still actually refer to this one or that one as the 'smart' one or the 'pretty' one. We're in our 40's and 50's for crying out loud!!!!!!! I haven't been to an Al-Anon meeting in years but I have recently started attending Celebrate Recovery meetings. I might see if there are any AlAnon I can attend before Thanksgiving - just for my own sanity. Have a Wonderful Thanksgiving Day, Kiddo!
Wow, I'm really amazed by your comments. Thank you all so much. You really helped me a lot.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO US ALL! :thank5
Big Hugs,
Cheese
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 179
Cheese: There is a wonderful book if you have not read it that helps women to get past these painful relationships: Women who run with Wolves.
In the book, you will find the "reasoning" we often seek to explain these painful events (or at least be made aware of their common, predictable nature) and the strength to move beyond it.
Take care.
In the book, you will find the "reasoning" we often seek to explain these painful events (or at least be made aware of their common, predictable nature) and the strength to move beyond it.
Take care.
Power is not having to respond
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wabbit Hole
Posts: 1,923
cheese,
My mom is a sober alcoholic for 30 years and a strong AA old timer.
She lives 3 hours away. Needless to say, we don't have much of a relationship due to the past with alcohol, and the fact she lives far away. (for which I am thankful)
She is the queen of guilt trips. I am not near to help her with every little thing, so she tells me all the wonderful stories of how my cousin Jimmy does everything for her including cook, and let her sleep at his house when she's afraid at night.
She tells me that his sister, her neice is the most wonderful person on the face of the earth blah blah blah.
In her entire life, she has never said thank you to me.
It used to hurt like hell. But now, I realize it for what it is. It's her way of trying to control me. To control my emotions, to make it hurt at her convenience.
I used to call her every night to see how she was. About a year ago, I got so sick of listening to all the people who do so very much for her and blah blah blah, that I now only call a couple of times a week.
Of course now she tells me how that sweet neice calls her EVERY DAY. My response is, Well, isn't that nice mom? She calls you every day. That's just wonderful.
It neutralizes her passive aggressiveness, and throws her comments right back in her lap.
I am rubber you are glue...
I don't like her any more. While I love her with all my heart, I simply do not like her nor do I want even to be around her. It's a terrible place to be in. I am learning to deal with that too.
Any way, I think it's the alcoholic's way, to guilt trip their children to death. Who knows that the "good" sister of yours isn't getting the same treatment.
My mom is a sober alcoholic for 30 years and a strong AA old timer.
She lives 3 hours away. Needless to say, we don't have much of a relationship due to the past with alcohol, and the fact she lives far away. (for which I am thankful)
She is the queen of guilt trips. I am not near to help her with every little thing, so she tells me all the wonderful stories of how my cousin Jimmy does everything for her including cook, and let her sleep at his house when she's afraid at night.
She tells me that his sister, her neice is the most wonderful person on the face of the earth blah blah blah.
In her entire life, she has never said thank you to me.
It used to hurt like hell. But now, I realize it for what it is. It's her way of trying to control me. To control my emotions, to make it hurt at her convenience.
I used to call her every night to see how she was. About a year ago, I got so sick of listening to all the people who do so very much for her and blah blah blah, that I now only call a couple of times a week.
Of course now she tells me how that sweet neice calls her EVERY DAY. My response is, Well, isn't that nice mom? She calls you every day. That's just wonderful.
It neutralizes her passive aggressiveness, and throws her comments right back in her lap.
I am rubber you are glue...
I don't like her any more. While I love her with all my heart, I simply do not like her nor do I want even to be around her. It's a terrible place to be in. I am learning to deal with that too.
Any way, I think it's the alcoholic's way, to guilt trip their children to death. Who knows that the "good" sister of yours isn't getting the same treatment.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Back East
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by Kallista 
Have you done any work with the roles that different kids take in an alcoholic family system? It can be very useful.
The band manager -- the leader's wife -- was the enabler/fixer, who held everything together.
I always used to say that on a three-set gig, the second set was the only good one. First set, the leader's too high-strung, and the other players are all looking over their shoulder, expecting to get yelled at, so the music isn't any good yet. Second set, he's had a few pops and loosened up some, so the band starts to get into a groove. By the third set, he's three sheets to the wind, so he can't be trusted to stick to the set list, kick off a tune at a decent tempo, or remember the ensemble parts -- so it's pretty sloppy....
T
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I have broken traditions around the holidays in so many ways, it's staggering. I have chosen to keep a few 'traditions' (mostly decorations) that hold extreme sentimental value to me (note: not to the family, to ME).
Thanksgiving is no longer a "one person hosts and everyone else sits on their butts drinking". If you want to be part of Thanksgiving at my house, you get to pitch in and bring something of your own. Know what? People LIKED it - they got to bring their favorite dishes, the ones they thought they couldn't live without. Dinner isn't the same dishes that I grew up with all my life, now it's a few of my own dishes, someone else does the turkey (and does it far better than I can), other people make home-made rolls, home-made pies, a salad that's simply delightful (and again, far better than what I would put together). The meal is better, people seem happier.
As for Christmas, I no longer celebrate it the way I used to. And that's fine. Christmas day I go to my parents for a few hours, but the rest of the experience is done on different days with different people. It's taken a load of stress off of me.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with changing the routine around. It can be quite refreshing.
Thanksgiving is no longer a "one person hosts and everyone else sits on their butts drinking". If you want to be part of Thanksgiving at my house, you get to pitch in and bring something of your own. Know what? People LIKED it - they got to bring their favorite dishes, the ones they thought they couldn't live without. Dinner isn't the same dishes that I grew up with all my life, now it's a few of my own dishes, someone else does the turkey (and does it far better than I can), other people make home-made rolls, home-made pies, a salad that's simply delightful (and again, far better than what I would put together). The meal is better, people seem happier.
As for Christmas, I no longer celebrate it the way I used to. And that's fine. Christmas day I go to my parents for a few hours, but the rest of the experience is done on different days with different people. It's taken a load of stress off of me.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with changing the routine around. It can be quite refreshing.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 14
Reading your post reminds me of my family... We too still use the labels and can be the least sympathetic people to each other because we all have suffered. Honestly, sometimes my siblings will fight over who had it worst because all of our experiences with mom were so dramatic. Not saying that's what you meant; just the lack of sympathy made me think of it...
One thing I have noticed with my mom that may give you some comfort, is my mom behaves much like a toddler in that she acts out with those she is comfortable with. She may not have said anything about you because she knew you would always be there for her and was too embarassed to admit to your sister she needed you as much as she did. My mom would always not reach out to whoever was not around...
I hope that you had a wonderful, drama-free Thanksgiving and find peace in being happy with who you are - regardless of what your mom thought!!
One thing I have noticed with my mom that may give you some comfort, is my mom behaves much like a toddler in that she acts out with those she is comfortable with. She may not have said anything about you because she knew you would always be there for her and was too embarassed to admit to your sister she needed you as much as she did. My mom would always not reach out to whoever was not around...
I hope that you had a wonderful, drama-free Thanksgiving and find peace in being happy with who you are - regardless of what your mom thought!!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
