Depression Deepens at Winter's End?
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Depression Deepens at Winter's End?
A thought just came to me. And I'd like your opinions, if there are any out there, on this idea.
I've noticed for the last three years that this time of year my depression is high. I know I have Seasonal Affective Disorder. (SAD)
And this year, in New England, we had an early, harsh winter.
On top of that, I was not allowed to exercise due to a physical problem. I've used exercise to help keep depression at bay and it helps.
Furthermore, I was dealing with a hostile work environment and the worst administrator I've had in my 23 year career as a teacher. Then, I was involuntarily transfered because of him, causing more stress.
So, for the first time in MANY years, I went back to the pdoc due to a return of depression that needed treatment. In the past, exercise, meditation, imagry, prayer and such allowed me to get by without meds. Not this year.
You all know this stuff. Now, here's the heart of the matter.
It's been long known that the coming of spring can cause mania in bipolar people. Well, I'm thinking that there is an area that's been overlooked in the psych community. The deepening of depression in or right before the springtime, due to cumulative effects of the winter season and all that entails. (lack of sunlight; hibernating; high carb eating...)
How many of you with depression feel worse at the end of winter? I ask, because I was just talking to others who said the same thing.
Any thoughts?
Ped, if you're out there, have you seen any literature on this stuff?
Shalom!
I've noticed for the last three years that this time of year my depression is high. I know I have Seasonal Affective Disorder. (SAD)
And this year, in New England, we had an early, harsh winter.
On top of that, I was not allowed to exercise due to a physical problem. I've used exercise to help keep depression at bay and it helps.
Furthermore, I was dealing with a hostile work environment and the worst administrator I've had in my 23 year career as a teacher. Then, I was involuntarily transfered because of him, causing more stress.
So, for the first time in MANY years, I went back to the pdoc due to a return of depression that needed treatment. In the past, exercise, meditation, imagry, prayer and such allowed me to get by without meds. Not this year.
You all know this stuff. Now, here's the heart of the matter.
It's been long known that the coming of spring can cause mania in bipolar people. Well, I'm thinking that there is an area that's been overlooked in the psych community. The deepening of depression in or right before the springtime, due to cumulative effects of the winter season and all that entails. (lack of sunlight; hibernating; high carb eating...)
How many of you with depression feel worse at the end of winter? I ask, because I was just talking to others who said the same thing.
Any thoughts?
Ped, if you're out there, have you seen any literature on this stuff?
Shalom!
Leap of Faith Survivor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
Teach, I have SADS and BP11 and I am struggling right now..And it is the pile up at the end of a very long winter, yes. I felt it kick in about a week ago...Like all my defenses broke down...the light at the end the end of the tunnel is the spring air I am starting to smell as I step outside the door....couple more weeks and I' be in my sneaks....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 2,591
Yeah I've often though that winter, and the end of winter is a very depressing time for me. And like you said about exercise, going to the gym to work out is fine, but it is nothing compared to going for a jog on a warm, sunny day or going kayaking. I've heard that where I live (western washington state) the self-harm rate is much higher in the winter.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Warning: Possible Trigger
There's not much information out there about this topic. I've been searching for quite a while, and this is the first one I've seen that didn't contain references to other substances or disorders. But,it's quite interesting, and I wanted to share it with you all. Seems there's something to my experience.
However, this post has information that may trigger some.
Please read the first paragraph with caution. The possible triggering information is marked at both the beginning and end.
I found this article on a site for social workers.
Springtime Depression
Yet, when I brought up the fact that this was the third year in a row that I felt worse in the beginning of spring, (or end of winter), with my social worker, she just started talking about mania in bipolar people. I wasn't talking about mania at all, and she knew it. I was depressed, and she was very aware of that too. So, I don't get it?
Anyway, just wanted to share this. It's not all in my head afterall! :rof
Shalom!
However, this post has information that may trigger some.
Please read the first paragraph with caution. The possible triggering information is marked at both the beginning and end.
Depression Real Life Story - Springtime Spike in Depression, Suicide Threats Expected
Local Mental Health Authority Says Local Trend Is Counterintuitive
THE BEE (Phillips, Wisconsin), May 3, 2006
By Ryan Stutzman
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<POSSIBLE TRIGGER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One said she was going to kill herself with the gun she had in her hand. Another said she was going to cut her wrists with a knife. One teen boy made suicidal statements to his mother and then took off in an automobile.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<END POSSIBLE TRIGGER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In all, the Price County Sheriff's Department recorded five suicide threats over the two weeks beginning April 10. That's significantly higher than average. None followed through, but the spike in threats underscores the need to remain vigilant against depression and suicide, according to local authorities.
Gregg Engfer, a clinical social worker and the director of the Counseling and Development Center in Phillips, said in his experience an upsurge in depression and reports of suicidal threats are typical for spring – which bucks conventional wisdom.
"You would think that in the dead of winter people would get depressed, but in the spring it is worse for some strange reason," he said.
Engfer could not correlate the surge to any particular factors, but he speculated that people are on the move in the spring, which tends to reveal problems that were under cover during the winter months. Alcohol and illicit drug use almost always aggravate circumstances, he added.
Engfer also said current events aren't helping people's mental health in general.
"There doesn't seem to be anything good on the horizon," he said, citing the war in Iraq, terrorism, gas prices and confrontational politics. "Everyplace you look there seems to be a crisis or a looming crisis."
Gas prices seem to be a particular source of anxiety for people, he said, because the prospect of $4 per gallon of fuel forces people to evaluate their lives in ways they aren't accustomed to. Even financially stable people might have to rethink long-anticipated getaways or change other priorities when it costs $50 or $60 to fill a tank.
"If I was to make a prediction, I'd say we're going to have a long, hot summer," Engfer said.
There are avenues for people who are struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts.
Suicidal thoughts should be addressed immediately. Suicidal individuals or others who suspect a person might be suicidal should call 9-1-1.
Local Mental Health Authority Says Local Trend Is Counterintuitive
THE BEE (Phillips, Wisconsin), May 3, 2006
By Ryan Stutzman
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<POSSIBLE TRIGGER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
One said she was going to kill herself with the gun she had in her hand. Another said she was going to cut her wrists with a knife. One teen boy made suicidal statements to his mother and then took off in an automobile.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<END POSSIBLE TRIGGER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In all, the Price County Sheriff's Department recorded five suicide threats over the two weeks beginning April 10. That's significantly higher than average. None followed through, but the spike in threats underscores the need to remain vigilant against depression and suicide, according to local authorities.
Gregg Engfer, a clinical social worker and the director of the Counseling and Development Center in Phillips, said in his experience an upsurge in depression and reports of suicidal threats are typical for spring – which bucks conventional wisdom.
"You would think that in the dead of winter people would get depressed, but in the spring it is worse for some strange reason," he said.
Engfer could not correlate the surge to any particular factors, but he speculated that people are on the move in the spring, which tends to reveal problems that were under cover during the winter months. Alcohol and illicit drug use almost always aggravate circumstances, he added.
Engfer also said current events aren't helping people's mental health in general.
"There doesn't seem to be anything good on the horizon," he said, citing the war in Iraq, terrorism, gas prices and confrontational politics. "Everyplace you look there seems to be a crisis or a looming crisis."
Gas prices seem to be a particular source of anxiety for people, he said, because the prospect of $4 per gallon of fuel forces people to evaluate their lives in ways they aren't accustomed to. Even financially stable people might have to rethink long-anticipated getaways or change other priorities when it costs $50 or $60 to fill a tank.
"If I was to make a prediction, I'd say we're going to have a long, hot summer," Engfer said.
There are avenues for people who are struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts.
Suicidal thoughts should be addressed immediately. Suicidal individuals or others who suspect a person might be suicidal should call 9-1-1.
Springtime Depression
Yet, when I brought up the fact that this was the third year in a row that I felt worse in the beginning of spring, (or end of winter), with my social worker, she just started talking about mania in bipolar people. I wasn't talking about mania at all, and she knew it. I was depressed, and she was very aware of that too. So, I don't get it?
Anyway, just wanted to share this. It's not all in my head afterall! :rof
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,136
Yeah its weird, teach, because I do typically feel worse with the onset of spring - I've never thought of it quite that way before. I almost panic when the weather gets warmer because then it will be more difficult to justify hibernating and isolating.
I've recently begun using one of those broad spectrum lights for SAD but haven't seen any effectiveness yet. Still taking my meds - but struggling in a very big way again.
Suicidal ideation is constant.
I've recently begun using one of those broad spectrum lights for SAD but haven't seen any effectiveness yet. Still taking my meds - but struggling in a very big way again.
Suicidal ideation is constant.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,492
That's an interesting topic.
I know that my depression increases in the winter and we've also had a long winter here this year. I do understand what Rowan said about being more anxious as Spring approaches. I guess I have my 'winter' routine and I know that as Spring approaches my routine will have to change. And, I'm not sure I'm ready for it.
But, in the past, once I get outside and begin to live a spring routine, I feel better. So, I think it's more the idea of changing. It's kind of like being in a nice warm bed and not wanting to get out.
I know that my depression increases in the winter and we've also had a long winter here this year. I do understand what Rowan said about being more anxious as Spring approaches. I guess I have my 'winter' routine and I know that as Spring approaches my routine will have to change. And, I'm not sure I'm ready for it.
But, in the past, once I get outside and begin to live a spring routine, I feel better. So, I think it's more the idea of changing. It's kind of like being in a nice warm bed and not wanting to get out.
Leap of Faith Survivor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,555
Originally Posted by Rowan 
I almost panic when the weather gets warmer because then it will be more difficult to justify hibernating and isolating.
.
.
To Life!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Originally Posted by Rowan
Yeah its weird, teach, because I do typically feel worse with the onset of spring - I've never thought of it quite that way before. I almost panic when the weather gets warmer because then it will be more difficult to justify hibernating and isolating.
I've recently begun using one of those broad spectrum lights for SAD but haven't seen any effectiveness yet. Still taking my meds - but struggling in a very big way again.
Suicidal ideation is constant.
I've recently begun using one of those broad spectrum lights for SAD but haven't seen any effectiveness yet. Still taking my meds - but struggling in a very big way again.
Suicidal ideation is constant.
Are you seeing a counselor?
Have you considered changing or tweeking your meds?
I'm worried about the ideation. And I understand it. I've had thoughts about it too, recently, but no plans.
Have you any plans?
If so, please see your doctor immediately. That's nothing to fool around with.
Sometimes, conventional therapy just isn't enough. How long have you been using the light treatment? Your struggle shouldn't be this difficult. Indeed, it was because mine was getting that difficult that I went to the pdoc again. Please take good care of yourself.
And continue to let us know how you're doing. We care...
Shalom!
To Life!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Anna,
The idea of change is interesting. I had to really give serious thought to that before posting.
For me, it wasn't an idea of change that brought on this dispair. Although the idea of changing schools wasn't something I wanted to do. (Though it's turned out to be pretty good, and MUCH better than the previous school!)
But, I can understand that idea of dreading the change.
Shalom!
The idea of change is interesting. I had to really give serious thought to that before posting.
For me, it wasn't an idea of change that brought on this dispair. Although the idea of changing schools wasn't something I wanted to do. (Though it's turned out to be pretty good, and MUCH better than the previous school!)
But, I can understand that idea of dreading the change.
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,136
Hi Teach, yes I am seeing a counsellor. He's an M.D. who is trained in addictions, trauma, Imago therapy, etc etc he's also 28 years sober and facilitates my relapse prevention group. I've never connected with a counsellor the way I have with him. I stopped seeing my pdoc about 3 years ago - didn't find the relationship helpful, and he was always doling out meds. Not my style.
I'm taking 60 mgs of Celexa which seems to have done the trick until a couple months ago - I felt myself slipping again and saw my GP. She added 150 mgs of Wellbutrin but I felt agitated and stopped taking it.
I am seeing a pattern, however. When I enter into a committed love relationship, something happens. I lose my power, or something. My need to be loved by someone is so deep that it cancels out everything else. I see it but feel separate from it. I've been with this man for nearly 3 months. It's been a good, healthy relationship (to my eye) but he is beginning to get frustrated and feels lost by my behaviour i.e. I'm skipping work, meetings, staying in bed, withdrawing. He feels that I should be able to shake this, and get out of bed. Then I feel shame, and think of my father's similar messages, and force myself up and into the shower which isn't a bad thing. The action, I mean. The shame, I could do without.
But - I understand this isn't about him shaming me - it's a childhood connection with my father.
I'm not suicidal in that I have a plan, teach. I'm attempted before, and nearly succeeded several years ago. I have a daughter whom I love dearly and I wouldn't abandon her. But still, the thoughts persist. I won't act on them,though.
I'm taking 60 mgs of Celexa which seems to have done the trick until a couple months ago - I felt myself slipping again and saw my GP. She added 150 mgs of Wellbutrin but I felt agitated and stopped taking it.
I am seeing a pattern, however. When I enter into a committed love relationship, something happens. I lose my power, or something. My need to be loved by someone is so deep that it cancels out everything else. I see it but feel separate from it. I've been with this man for nearly 3 months. It's been a good, healthy relationship (to my eye) but he is beginning to get frustrated and feels lost by my behaviour i.e. I'm skipping work, meetings, staying in bed, withdrawing. He feels that I should be able to shake this, and get out of bed. Then I feel shame, and think of my father's similar messages, and force myself up and into the shower which isn't a bad thing. The action, I mean. The shame, I could do without.
But - I understand this isn't about him shaming me - it's a childhood connection with my father.
I'm not suicidal in that I have a plan, teach. I'm attempted before, and nearly succeeded several years ago. I have a daughter whom I love dearly and I wouldn't abandon her. But still, the thoughts persist. I won't act on them,though.
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Your description of your father reminds me so much of what I grew up with "just get over it" "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" "I will give you something to cry about" "your just a hypochondriac" "your just trying to get attention" "quit faking" all those lovely little sayings that can cut to the core of someone who is hurting and hasn't really even got a clue why they feel so bad. I wish I had some great solution but as I still struggle myself I don't have much to offer but the fact that I believe it takes a lot of strength and courage to do what you are doing; recognizing there is a problem, trying to find and work on a solution, reaching out to others for help. Thanks for being a good example of strength, courage, and hope.
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 780
As a person who struggles with depression and SAD, I, also, find that at the end of winter I have an extremely difficult time...same time every year. Even though I live in Florida and the sun peeks out more often than in some northern areas, it still affects me. This is due to the tilting of Earth on it's axis, away from the Sun. It may sound like a bunch of hooeyt to some, but just by seeing the longer shadows and the angle of the light, it give me an anxious feeling inside.
This time of year is very hard for me. I experience deep depression and search desperately for something to allay these feelings. Typically not substances, but relationships. Three years ago, at this very time, I became deeply depressed and in search of something to quell the feelings of angst and depression.
What I did nearly tore apart my family.
These past two years have been good in that I have been working through these feelings, but...the sadness and depression have returned with a vengeance.
I know what you are saying, Rowan, about isolating and hibernating. For some reason there is comfort found in those words and doing those things.
I am making some adjustments to my way of life right now and meditating and praying are helpful. One thing I have realized. Self love is of the utmost importance.
Thanks for letting me share.
This time of year is very hard for me. I experience deep depression and search desperately for something to allay these feelings. Typically not substances, but relationships. Three years ago, at this very time, I became deeply depressed and in search of something to quell the feelings of angst and depression.
What I did nearly tore apart my family.
These past two years have been good in that I have been working through these feelings, but...the sadness and depression have returned with a vengeance.
I know what you are saying, Rowan, about isolating and hibernating. For some reason there is comfort found in those words and doing those things.
I am making some adjustments to my way of life right now and meditating and praying are helpful. One thing I have realized. Self love is of the utmost importance.
Thanks for letting me share.
To Life!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
I'm very greatful to all who have shared here.
It really does seem that this is a matter that is seriously overlooked by the professionals. And I can't understand why, as they recognize seasonality in SAD and bipolar disorder. With the facts that are seen in the article above, there's got to be trends all over the place. So why not address it? Why isn't that one of the questions on the evaluations?
Today, I didn't even get dressed until after 3 PM. And I had to force myself to do that because I had to get a prescription refilled and pick up some groceries. When I got home, I got right back into my jammies. I'm in for the night. Although I slept well last night, and slept late this morning, (didn't get up till 6:30 or so, when my usual time is 5:30, and I've been getting up by 4 lately), I've been exhausted all day today.
Judith,
Your shares always offer much to all of us here. And I'm grateful to you.
Wolf,
It's interesting that you go through the same thing though you live in Florida! I was under the impression that people in southern states didn't deal with SAD, at least to the same extent. So, I'm sorry you're dealing with it, but, I'm very interested to hear that you deal with the same end of winter, beginning of springtime deepening of depression. I do hope you too feel better soon.
Rowan,
Your counselor/doctor sounds wonderful! I'm so glad you have found someone so good for you. I know it can be difficult when there's no connection or worse, a bad connection with the therapist.
I hope your gentleman friend can begin to learn what depression is all about. And that you can find some release from the pain you are going through. But, most of all, I'm glad that you have a will to live, and no plans to do anything rash. If those thoughts do get overwhelming, or too loud, though, you know what to do.
I know I keep that in mind myself. In fact, I feel just a *little* bit guilty because I didn't tell my counselor or pdoc about those thoughts. I know what happened the last time I did. I got stoned out of my gourd! And I won't let that happen again. Especially since I, like you, have no plan to do anything stupid. Thoughts are just that -- thoughts. And they have no power in and of themselves. So, that's why I only feel a *little* bit guilty.
Thanks again, everyone. If there are others out there, dealing with springtime depression that gets worse, please chime in. Cuz, I think it's an important issue. And we all know that it's easier when we share our ESH (experience, strength and hope.) :>)
Shalom!
It really does seem that this is a matter that is seriously overlooked by the professionals. And I can't understand why, as they recognize seasonality in SAD and bipolar disorder. With the facts that are seen in the article above, there's got to be trends all over the place. So why not address it? Why isn't that one of the questions on the evaluations?
Today, I didn't even get dressed until after 3 PM. And I had to force myself to do that because I had to get a prescription refilled and pick up some groceries. When I got home, I got right back into my jammies. I'm in for the night. Although I slept well last night, and slept late this morning, (didn't get up till 6:30 or so, when my usual time is 5:30, and I've been getting up by 4 lately), I've been exhausted all day today.
Judith,
Your shares always offer much to all of us here. And I'm grateful to you.
Wolf,
It's interesting that you go through the same thing though you live in Florida! I was under the impression that people in southern states didn't deal with SAD, at least to the same extent. So, I'm sorry you're dealing with it, but, I'm very interested to hear that you deal with the same end of winter, beginning of springtime deepening of depression. I do hope you too feel better soon.
Rowan,
Your counselor/doctor sounds wonderful! I'm so glad you have found someone so good for you. I know it can be difficult when there's no connection or worse, a bad connection with the therapist.
I hope your gentleman friend can begin to learn what depression is all about. And that you can find some release from the pain you are going through. But, most of all, I'm glad that you have a will to live, and no plans to do anything rash. If those thoughts do get overwhelming, or too loud, though, you know what to do.
I know I keep that in mind myself. In fact, I feel just a *little* bit guilty because I didn't tell my counselor or pdoc about those thoughts. I know what happened the last time I did. I got stoned out of my gourd! And I won't let that happen again. Especially since I, like you, have no plan to do anything stupid. Thoughts are just that -- thoughts. And they have no power in and of themselves. So, that's why I only feel a *little* bit guilty.
Thanks again, everyone. If there are others out there, dealing with springtime depression that gets worse, please chime in. Cuz, I think it's an important issue. And we all know that it's easier when we share our ESH (experience, strength and hope.) :>)
Shalom!
To Life!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
The miracle of SR....
Sharing our ESH means we never have to feel like we are going through this alone.
There's someone else dealing with issues similar to ours, and making it. So we will too.
Glad our sharing helped, ((((Rowan))))
Shalom!
Sharing our ESH means we never have to feel like we are going through this alone.
There's someone else dealing with issues similar to ours, and making it. So we will too.
Glad our sharing helped, ((((Rowan))))
Shalom!
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
This *is* interesting - thanks ...
*I* thought it was just the power bill thing ...
the whole being poor thing that comes up from time to time...
*rolls eyes*
coming off topamax MAYBE
... and taxes.
*I* thought it was just the power bill thing ...
the whole being poor thing that comes up from time to time...
*rolls eyes*
coming off topamax MAYBE
... and taxes.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,772
Besides being a recovering alcoholic, I've been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and bipolar. I've been on meds for these for quite a while. I can't say that they've helped or not helped, as I'd have to go off them for a while to see if I felt worse without them, and I'm not going to chance it. I also am much more depressed in winter and it seems now, with spring coming, I am more depressed than I have been all winter. For me it could be that getting sober (I'm sober 10 days today) has made me more aware of what's going on around me and within me. No alcohol to dull the feelings. And to top it all off, I'm currently unemployed and looking for work in a small rural town with few employment opportunities.
I'm just taking it one day at a time and trying to not worry about circumstances beyond my control. I hope you find the strength within yourself to stay calm and take things as they come, without too much worrying. Best of luck to you!:ghug3
I'm just taking it one day at a time and trying to not worry about circumstances beyond my control. I hope you find the strength within yourself to stay calm and take things as they come, without too much worrying. Best of luck to you!:ghug3
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anytown, USA
Posts: 1,019
Originally Posted by historyteach
Any thoughts?
Ped, if you're out there, have you seen any literature on this stuff?
Ped, if you're out there, have you seen any literature on this stuff?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Springtime has often been the hardest time for me.....just guessing here....but the whole natural world bursts out new and fresh..and I feel out of sync with that, out of step, thinking I should sprout and bloom and yet I am still in the confines of depression and it just a painful time for me.
I want to shake off my internal weather the way the natural world does and it just doesn't happen that way.
In Florida there are no discrete seasons, as a midwest girl, I do miss that very much.
I want to shake off my internal weather the way the natural world does and it just doesn't happen that way.
In Florida there are no discrete seasons, as a midwest girl, I do miss that very much.
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