gingercookie

Hi everyone-

In April my Dad died of cirrhosis of the liver. He was 60. He made the decision, the last three years of his life, not to try to quit anymore. I was the only one with him- he'd alienated everyone else in the family. My life's really complicated right now- mostly because I've been embroiled in a custody battle for my son. His father is a substance abuser, and unfortunately he only became interested in custody of our son when I remarried in January. Dear husband's a doll, but I think he has no idea what's going on with me some of the time. He comes from a very stable family. I found the 'attributes of adult children of alcoholics' list tonight, and it really hit home. I'd like to communicate with other people who grew up with what I grew up with. The trait that resonated with me the most was 'always trying to determine what normal is'. How do you do that? What coping mechanisms have you developed?

Best Wishes

best

Welcome Ginger

Sorry to read about your dad.

As for what is normal... In part, I used my own feelings.
If it didn't feel right to me growing up, I questioned it and tried not to do it myself. As an example... punishments or being yelled at and belittled. It can require a lot of conscious thinking before I would act but over time I was learning more and more. It took me reading the bible to learn much more of what is proper. Believe in God or not... the bible is full of life's examples of how to do things in a better way.
A verb is an action word. A Proverb helps a verb. (English class lesson number 101)
Well just by reading through Proverbs that are found in the bible, we can learn many things that can help us in our actions.
1 Corinthians 13...Love is....
That one set of verses also helped me find growth.

As I said...believe in God or not...the bible is filled with great examples of what is the better way.

Growing

My husband came from a stable home....I have issues with his family...but that is another topic...I can relate to what you are saying about your husband wondering what is going on with you most of the time...my healthy relationships are the most challenging sometimes...My dad recently died in his disease 2yrs ago...my mom is a recovering alcoholic...she was sober and in aa several years before he died...she is still messed up now that he is gone...she stayed with him to the end...I had moved away at the time...so I didn't see his decline first hand...but my brothers and sister did...I am the eldest and was already moved out...like I said...

I am fairly new in my recovery pt.2...I just recently had a codependent slip that lasted 2yrs...before that I was involved with alanon 10+yrs....I also attended some acoa face to face meetings before I had my slip.

I will share with you what I have learned for me...so far: I get to determine what "normal" is now...normal for me is when I am taking care of me...not letting others needs overwhelm me...I have the tendency to become invisible to myself in the face of crisis or someone elses problems that I care about.

Normal is me standing up for myself and my needs in a balanced way. Normal also includes fun...fun is a fairly new...and strange concept for me...anyone who knows me will tell you I have a good sense of humor...but...I never used to seek out "fun" activities....anyone who knows me will tell you I am way too serious most of the time....so with acoa I am learning to deal with my issues....but lighten up as well...

I am learning the basics...I deserve good food, exercise, stimulating mental activities, friends...ect...all the best life has to offer. I am learning to admire and shhhh (copy) those whose recovery I aspire to.

JMHO...if I had to come up with a different name for acoa support groups------it would be "boundary" support groups...acoa's, in my humble opinion, need help with boundaries and taking care of ourselves....Self care is another big theme.

I don't know about you...but I also learned almost all of my general life skills after I had moved out. Checking account, savings, my drivers licsense, driving, grocery shopping, cooking....all of these things and more I learned from my husband mostly...some things I taught myself....my A parents didn't teach me any of these things...mom gave me a ride to work...so I had a job...thankfully...and I went to school...but that was about it for life skills.

One thing I am learning is that acoas have the characteristics in common...but our experiences with the a's in our life can be different...for example: my parents were raging/violent alcoholics....but I have read posts here where some individuals say that the alcoholic "was their best friend and a great person and they miss them very much"...so there are varied experiences that we can all draw from.

I don't know if my ramble made any sense...but I am glad you are here...I hope you keep coming back...keep us posted with any comments and questions....What is normal is a great question for a thread....BIG HUGS!!!!!

DesertEyes

Hi there gingercookie, and welcome to this wonderful website

I'm so sorry about your Dad, I know how hard that can be.

Both my biological parents died of alcoholism in their 60's, and they's alienated pretty much everybody. I have a number of "normie" friends who also have no clue what it's like to be raised in a "toxic family", and how that nightmare follows you well into adulthood. The good news is that we can repair the damage that was done to us, and have a life that is truly happy, joyous and free.

The way I resolve my ACoA issues, such as that whole "normal" thing is in three steps.

First I educate myself about the issue. That means picking up some books from my al-anon meets, or that have been recommended to me by people in recovery. I go to real life meetings of al-anon and _listen_ to everybody else share, I come here to this forum and read up what other people are saying about the subject.

Next I share my own feelings about the issue. I explain what I've learned in my readings, what I'm feeling about the issue, and how I think it applies to me. I ask the wise people in my meets out for lunch, and ask them to tell me how _they_ solved their issue.

Then I follow the instructions spelled out in the 12 steps of ACoA. I do a focused inventory just on the one issue, share that with my sponsor, and so on.

That works for me real well, but there are many other variation that work just as well for other people. If you browse around all the posts here you will see what everybody else does and you will be able to make a "recipe" of recovery that works best for you.

Welcome again, I'm glad you decided to join us

Mike

GingerM

Welcome to the board Gingerbread.

Since it seems like you're wanting to focus on one thing at a time (which is *very* smart way to go about it! It's too much if you try to address everything at once), I'll tell you what I did about trying to figure out what 'normal' is.

For one thing, I had a long talk with my therapist (I find individual therapy works better for me than group settings). Then I started watching the behavior of people around me, analyzing it. Then I defined "normal" - "normal", in a statistical sense, is the group or population with the most number of 'data points' (eg people) in that category. So I started looking around me, not at people I know, but at people I don't know - people driving, people standing in line, people in restaurants etc. And I tried to figure out, if I was to average all those people's behavior together into one person, what would I get?

I decided (and this is my own conclusion - to each their own) that a "normal" person would be high strung, self-centered, stressed out, and in a state of perpetual agitation. I based this on the number of loud angry (or at least pushy) cell phone calls overheard in various places, the number of either clueless or downright aggressive drivers I see on a daily basis, and the number of rude or downright abusive conversations I hear. It seems one can not go anywhere without someone displaying rude, selfish, or anger/aggression driven behaviors.

This is when I decided I don't want to be normal. I want to be *healthy*. I don't think your average "normal" person out there is actually emotionally healthy. I think there are more dysfunctional people than emotionally stable people out there (maybe I just live in the wrong place, I dunno, but it seems to be worse in other places I visit, so maybe not).

Perhaps this will work for you. By no longer focusing on what "normal" is (which places the focus on other people's behavior, not on mine), and instead focusing on what "healthy" is, I've been able to watch and monitor my own behaviors rather than trying to figure out others' behaviors. When it comes right down to it, it doesn't matter what 'normal' is. Remember that "normal" varies by culture, but 'healthy' is a constant.

As for your husband, I recommend that you print out the 13 characteristics, read them to him and talk about them with him. I also recommend that you attempt to describe what is causing some of your behavior to him, even if you're not really sure why or where it comes from. This will keep him in the loop on what's going on, give him some perspective on how your upbringing has skewed your view of the world, and not allow either you or him to stigmatize your situation (which is the worst thing you can do). You've spotted the elephant in the living room, he has too, if you both talk about it, it will help tremendously.

I also married into a relatively healthy (not "normal", but very functional and healthy) family. They are like a foreign culture to me (or they were initially, I've come to believe it now). My husband also struggles sometimes with me, and we have discussions about what buttons got pushed or what old tapes were playing in my head during an unpleasant incident. In return, he has both learned about his own tapes, and also learned about mine. He has, on several occasions, said "You know that's not you talking, that's your parents talking" when I've become very down on myself for not being perfect.

So I really do strongly urge you to talk with your husband, lay it all out on the table, and acknowledge that elephant in the living room. You may not be able to make it go away, but it's so much healthier to discuss it openly than to pretend it doesn't exist.

GiveLove

Hi cookie,

Sorry to hear about your dad. I lost mine when he was 63, and remember how it felt. Hugs to you.

Normal? To me, there is no "normal." There is only, "What do I want to be like?"

Truly, it's the only touchstone I ever use any more. I can wrack my brain trying to figure out how a "normal" person would react in a certain situation, or I can step back and think:

--What kind of person would it make me to choose "A" ?
--What kind of person would it make me to choose "B"?
--Which of those resonate with the person I want to remember myself as? Which one will make me proudest of myself?

If I want to sit on my porch when I'm 85 and look back, and be able to say that I was a patient person, I didn't drink a lot, I took care of my health, I always acted with integrity, I understood that sometimes people are just having a bad day, etc. etc. etc................then I've got to act that way now. I worked with a therapist and did a lot of journaling around it to figure out what I wanted Me to look like.

I keep that 85-year-old memory in my head all the time. It takes other people out of the equation and leaves only: What kind of person do I want to be?

My husband is also normal. I understand what you mean when you say he doesn't get you, but I'm in the same boat and, for me, I wouldn't change a thing. My husband is the one who came from a stable, loving home. I trust his reactions to things more than I trust my own, whether he "gets" my pain or not. Oftentimes, I used to find myself hiding behind my family history, blaming it for behaviors that didn't make me proud of myself. What matters is not whether he "feels my pain" but whether he is willing to hold me inhis arms while I work it all out for myself. He can't change what happened to me. But he can be there for me while I continue my healing process.

Normal, to me, is everyone here on this board --- reaching, healing, learning, trying hard to be good people despite the ugly stuff they've been through.

Hugs to all
GL

best

I would say that is why the 85 year old sitting on the front porch smiles...
Because she understands.

gingercookie

sometimes when my husband and i have a disagreement/argument/fight/sendinthemarines issue i feel seriously conflicted- because I never feel confident that I'm just upset about the situation. I sometimes wonder if I'm upset because my baseline trigger is low. I don't think that's always the case, I just cannot objectively evaluate it.

i appreciate all of your comments. hope you're having a nice sunday

Growing

My interactions with my hubby let me know that I had alot to work on in recovery. For me, working on my recovery has helped all of my relationships. My marriage has improved and grown in a healthy way since I began recovery. Some people get help through individual counseling alone, alanon, acoa, coda ect...or some mixture of both. For me, when I joined alanon....all of my relationships began to improve after about 6 meetings.

GingerM

Now, many years after starting therapy, I can usually feel whether my reactions to hubby are based on old triggers or the actual situation. An old trigger reaction feels very knee-jerk and very survivalist - as if I was reacting to something that was going to kill me. A genuine reaction to my hubby tends to have disappointment, sadness, frustration and occasionally anger in it, but is rarely kneejerk protective.

It may or may not be the same with you. I can tell you that if you work towards becoming healthy, you will find a noticeable difference in how you feel when one of the old triggers goes off versus when you're upset over something 'real'.