Fluttering

I have heard it said many many times that fear and faith cannot co-exist. For some time I quoted the same words in an attempt to expel the many fears that come up in my life. The fears kept returning...often with more and more vengence and I thougth I was doing something wrong or not doing something that caused the fear to recurr over and over again. I spoke with another member ...much to my surprise I discovered another perspective...

He said to me..."Faith is the courage that allows us to walk through the fear" and further explained that as I walk through the fear my faith deepens. It is only when I allow the fear to immobize me or to paralyze me into nonaction that keeps me from using the tool of "FAITH". I can remian hibernated and closed off from being on the front lines or I can choose to walk through it and increase and deepen my faith.

What a concept. I hadn't thoguth about it that way. Thank God there are individuals to share with and to gain ESH to pass on to others

breatheeasy

Absolutely! I like the way you put it. I used to get confused because yes, you hear, "Fear is a lack of faith," but also in the Basic Text it says something about Courage not being the absence of fear, but rather walking through it regardless. Those two seemed to be a little contradictory to me, at first. But if I keep things simple, it makes sense, like everything in the program. It is not that we are NEVER fearful, but when fear presents itself, we walk through it with faith. And this is courage!

BUTTERFLY-7

Hey Fluttering What a Coincident, reading your Thread
was like reading about me everything you said is what I been facing
it was once told to me that "Courage is Been Afraid and Still Going On"
that was so Deep for me to comprehend cause all my life I was left out of the Popularity
scene or auditions cause of me Fears so Thanx for that Freshly Reminder........

beccaflight9

I loved you words and your perspective on fear. I am feeling a great deal of fear right now, but I decided to "show up" for life. Courage, like you said, is walking through the fear and your post was perfect for me right now,
Beccaflight9
Peace

jimhere

Pretty much my experience as well. In fact you put it almost exactly the same way I do, Fluttering.

I've heard that fear and faith can't live in the same house. Which implies that if I experience fear, my faith is lacking. So when I hear that fear and faith can't live in the same house, my question is "Where else are they gonna live?" Recovery doesn't do away with the darkness, it increases the light and as I walk the path and demonstrate spiritual principles in my daily affairs, I outgrow fear. I'm convinced that I'll be outgrowing fear for the rest of my life.

As has been said, faith isn't a lack of fear. To me faith isn't a feeling or something I think about much. It sure isn't this warm, fuzzy feeling that "God loves and everything is going to be alright," because I don't always feel that way. Faith is a verb to me, an action. It is paying the money when I don't think there will be any left over for me. It is telling the truth when it would be easier to tell a lie.
Peace,
Jim

24hrsAday

fear knocked.. faith answered.. no one was there.

Wolfchild

i know very well the principle of having faith while being afraid.

Praticed it alot in active addiction. i was very scared the first few times i tried a new drug, but i had faith that it would get me high. i was scared of buying from a new dealer, but i had faith that what they sold me could get me high. i was scared when i had to go out in public to get more, but i had faith that i would find what i wanted.

Now i pratice the same principle in active recovery. i was very scared when i went to my first meeting, but i had faith that someone would help me. i was scared when i asked someone to sponsor me, but i had faith that the direction he gave me would work. i was scared when i took my first service committment, but i had faith that it was what i needed to do.


As far as the quality of my life is concerned...i'll stick with recovery!!

Gmoney

Over the years I've heard a number of different takes on the 'fear vs. faith' stuff. And even in our literature it says that fear is the lack of faith. I'm more inclined to go along with the "lack of" position instead of believing that one eliminates the other. I actually never heard it reversed (faith is the lack of fear), but it kinda makes sense to me that when my faith is strong, my fear is weak. Can they live in the same house? IMO, they surely can! They may not be able to stand each other in the same room, though.

My experiences vary a bit from what has been shared. For example; for me, it wasn't faith that led me to try a new drug, seek out a new dealer, or pay my money even when nothing would be left for me. In those cases my fear was the driving force behind my behaviors - fear I'd be judged by my peers and couldn't fit in...fear that if I didn't take a chance with this new dealer I'd end up with nothing... or fear I'd be viewed as a cheapskate or grimy. Going to my 1st meeting wasn't about faith for me either... I was desperate. I had no idea what to expect or what to believe. Sure, I had heard that others had found help in meetings, but I had no confidence that the same would happen for me. Asking someone to sponsor me? Hah!!! Fear of rejection was my middle name!! LOL!! At one time I was a skeptic really bad.

I like what Jim said about faith being a verb. I've often heard it said, "Faith without works is dead," or something of that nature. And along that line, I'm inclined to believe that faith is something that is acquired as a result of positive experiences (practice). If I do nothing, nothing will happen....and I'll have no reason to believe (faith) something will happen. In order to receive help, I had to reach for it and accept it. The more I received... the more I reached... and the more I reached, the more I expected to receive. It was the expectation of a positive outcome (faith) initiated by a positive action that grew into a belief that as long as I did "the right thing for the right reasons" everything would be okay.

So...yeah:

...that sounds about right to me. LOL!! I just keep walking....

jimhere

Sometimes, or at least in AA, we talk about faith like it is something to "get."

I submit that faith isn't something to get. I've always had faith, just faith in the wrong things. I say this about alcohol, but I'm sure any addict can relate: If you ever had a real bad day and knew that there was a bottle of booze (or whatever drug did the job for you) waiting at the end, that's faith. So I agree with Garry that faith is the result of results, but it isn't something I had to get because I already had it.

So faith isn't something to aquire or learn. It is inborn, it is a natural human capacity. In fact, it is a gift. And, to quote Bill Wilson, it is our greatest gift and sharing that gift with others is our greatest responsibility.


Peace,
Jim

Gmoney

I hear you, Jim...but I still don't buy some stuff - like predisposition or the "inborn" stuff. I guess it's the age-old nature vs. nurture thingie. But I can't help but think that (whether addict or alcoholic) you can't have faith in something waiting for you at the end of the day if you didn't have an idea of how it would get there (or got there). My experience is that nothing ever magically appeared when I wanted to use...I had to make a way to get it or put it there.

As I asserted previously, faith is something that can be increased (obtained) in cases where it is "lacking" - yet I'm also open to the idea that some have it and some just don't. For me, it is intellect that is a natural trait of being human, and with intellect humans have the capacity to believe, disbelieve or question almost anything. IMO, the gift is the ability to reason.

NA literature says faith doesn't come overnight...it takes time and effort to grow. It speaks of faith as something to be developed and nurtured into trust. Even the 2nd Step talks about coming to believe, eh?

Be blessed,
G

Gmoney

More on Faith...

"Belief in a power greater than ourselves does not come easily to all of us...

We start to develop faith through the process of coming to believe. It starts with hope. For some of us, this may be only a faint spark at first, perhaps just the thought that maybe, if we work this program, our lives will get better. Our hope turns to faith as our lives begin to improve. For many of us, faith can be described as a belief in something intangible. After all, who can logically explain the sudden lifting of an obsession to use drugs, yet this has happened for many of us. With our hope for a different life and the beginnings of our faith that recovery is possible, we start the process of coming to believe in a Power greater than ourselves." - IWH&W, pg 20


"Coming to believe that our Higher Power has only the best in store for us is one way we can combat that fear. We hear in meetings that our Higher Power won't give us more than we can handle in one day. And we know from experience that, if we ask, the God we've come to understand will surely care for us. We stay clean through adverse situations by practicing our faith in the care of a Power greater than ourselves. Each time we do, we become less fearful of "what if" and more comfortable with what is." - JFT, pg. 122


tflms

:ghug

spider63

Faith is the key. Believing and calling on God when you need help is key. It is easy to forget and try to solve the problems ourselves, and then the odds improve that we will return to mistakes from the past. Ask God for guidance and illumination. That small space between action and reaction can give the Higher Power a chance to put the right thought in our minds. see Ecclesiastes 5:2 (Bible)

Gmoney

NA tells us that the concept of a Higher Power is up to us - we can call it God, the Program or the Fellowship. The only suggested guideline is that this power be loving, caring and greater than ourselves. NA also teaches us that God/Higher Power will not do everything for us...just as we are responsible for our recovery, we're also responsible for our solutions.

Although I choose to call my Higher Power God, my choice of this concept has little to do with the Bible or Christianity.

2ala2

I'm so glad that my concept of faith has nothing to do with the religion of my birth. What a relief it was for me to come to the conclusion that there is no one 'right' way.
Here are some questions I had for my first sponsor:
You mean I don't have to be religious to believe in God?
You mean I can pray in my own words, any words?
You mean I can even pray in English?
The path I was once on (pre-program) looks narrow and difficult for me today.
I call my HP God
Thank you NA

mattyp601

Hey everyone. I am on Step Two. I finished writing on Step Two like a month and a half ago and have been internalizing the spiritual principles (living the program) of Step Two. Step Two allowed me to begin to realize the power my Higher Power has to [I]assist[I]me in my recovery process and in my attempt to live life on life's terms. I used the term assist here not to imply superiority over my Higher Power, but to stress the idea that Gmoney hit on, which was that I cannot just sit back and let God take care of everything. I am responsible for my recovery and this requires me to take action and do the next right thing for the next right reason. In recovery, I am guided by my Higher Power, which I view as loving and caring; what a difference from being controlled by an evil, destructive power. Lastly, I wanted to share my favorite quote from Step Two in the IWHW: "ALong with the hope we derive from working Step Two, we find that our way of thinking is undergoing a radical change. The whole world looks different. Where before we had no reason to hope, we now have every reason to expect a dramatic difference in our lives. By being open-minded, we've opened ourselves to new ideas. We've stepped away from the problem and toward a spiritual solution." (pg.25)

WOW!