nandm

I am curious to hear your experiences, if any, regarding how you deal with conflicting feelings toward your parent.

Sorry for the long explanation regarding my question but please bear with me.

I recently changed therapists for my PTSD, anxiety disorder, and depression. Today was th 4th time I have seen her. Her technique is quite different than that of my previous therapist. She seems to really be into the "inner child" thing. I say that with skepticism as I have never really felt it was something I could apply to my life. I am learning though that keeping an open mind is beneficial. Some of what she says makes a lot of sense and does seem to apply directly to my life and my coping mechanisms.

My question comes about though because she asks a lot of questions regarding my childhood. I am very conflicted regarding my childhood. I believe my parents did the best with the tools they had. I also know that no one is perfect and children don't come with a handbook. Although my parents believed in the Bible as a handbook. "Spare the rod spoil the child," "children should be seen and not heard,'" etc... But I believe that they meant no harm just followed what they learned.

The other side is the negative side of my childhood. Growing up emotions were something we knew not to show, whether it be laughing, crying, anger, frustration, happiness, etc.... I had night terrors, hated going to bed, terrified of going to sleep, would hide under the covers with my stuffed animals around my head with only a little air hole to breath through so if someone looked in the room, in my mind, they would just think the bed was made and no one was there. I am not sure exactly when the molestation by my father began. It also happened with my two older and one younger sisters. So I don't know if the sleep thing is related to that or not. Hadn't gotten there yet and not sure I want to...lol. Hugs and touching in a positive way were not something we did as a family. My sisters and I were never really close. To get to sleep I had to go into a fantasy world.

So my conflict comes in from the compassion I have toward my parents as I know they did the best they could and the insanity of the way I was raised. I am confused about how to reconcile this as I think it is ridiculous to blame all my problems on my childhood as I do have choices in life. I don't believe I am an alcoholic because of the way I was raised, or that bad things occurred in my life because of the way I was raised or that my poor choices in life were anything more than poor choices I made.

So have you had any similiar experiences? How did you reconcile the situation?

Thank you for sharing.

ICU

Initially, I used the ’they did the best that they could with what they knew’ slogan too. But for me…that was an excuse to put them on a pedestal and participate with them in hiding the family ’issues and shame’. I also used that as a means to ’not’ face and own my feelings about how I was raised. I shoved them under some carpet somewhere. I guess I didn’t have tools to deal with them as a child, or as an adult. I took all of the blame. That wasn’t fair, or right! But, I was a child.

However, it was when I began looking back over my life, wondering why I accepted unacceptable behavior from most everyone in my life, what did I base my reasons on for the choices I’ve made in my life, that it all pointed back to my childhood. That was where ’my foundation’ was! That’s where it all started. I had to risk the ‘superficial’ adult-like relationship I had with my folks because I wasn‘t being real. I had to risk getting really angry with them for the things they’ve done to me as a child. I had to cut them out of my life for a brief period of time as I was opening up and allowing myself to feel those feelings that ‘I was not allowed to feel, or express’ as a child.

Although the tools I had in childhood, like stuffing or ignoring my feelings were pretty good survival skills back then, they did nothing to serve me now. The very same survival skills I had when little, were now killing me. Once I began to have that awareness, I began to change my life, my choices, my reactions, etc.

After allowing myself to feel it, and express it, I can begin to have compassion for them as I honestly and truly say, “they did the best that they could with what they knew”. But see, the same applies to me too! If I forgive them, then I also have to be forgiving of myself. If I have compassion for them, then I also need to have compassion for myself.

Yup, same here! I was told to think what I was told to think! And I damn better pray that I jumped high enough when commanded to. The only physical contact that I remember is being hit or beaten down to the ground.

I used to believe that too. I look at it this way…I was born a clean slate. I wasn’t born stuffing my emotions; I learned to do that to stay safe. I had no control over my upbringing and the lessons that were forced down my throat. As a child, survival was the most important thing. Here’s an example of my early ‘stuffing of my emotions’ lessons…..

When I was three, I had a horrible nightmare and I woke up crying and was so afraid. My Dad came in and yelled at me for being awake, and beat me. So now, I was scared from my nightmare and scared of real life based on my Dad’s reaction. Actually, he scared me more than my nightmare. It is my fault I was scared from a horrible nightmare and cried? No, that’s what children do. If I’m not to blame here, then who is? My Dad! Yes…his reaction was totally inappropriate, totally unhealthy, and totally unacceptable? I had to be able to admit that my parents made very, very poor choices in the upbringing of their children.

Although I had to feel the anger towards my folks, I think it would have been wrong for me to remain forever stuck there, and, I’m glad I didn’t. I had to admit that it happened!!! But, I had to feel all of those ugly stuffed emotions, admit that I endured ‘years’ of emotional, verbal, and physical abuse. I then had to learn there was no way to go back in time and ‘fix’ those events of my life. But, instead, learn to not let them repeat again in my life…hence, making better choices for myself.

I don't know if this made any sense as I got a little emotional while typing it, LOL. But I hope you might find something useful in it.

P.S. One of my biggest blocks for going back to my childhood issues, and allowing myself to feel anger about it, was that I was afraid if I ever expressed it, my parents would die! Like, they might have a heart attack, stroke, or some other horrible illness, and, it would have been my fault because I expressed what I was feeling. It took a very long time for me to 'risk it' and work through those feelings, before I was able to admit how I really felt. I guess it's true...children blame themselves for just about everything!

barb dwyer

****{NandM}}}


no big answer - just a hug.

I figure if I knew the answer to that one - I'd be as rich as Oprah!

I think the whole 'inner child' deal is vital, but oversimplified.
At the same time- there's things we bury when that young ...
that become like an autonomic response - like an automatic knee jerk ...
if anything that 'feels' that way comes up.
And the response is usually to shut down.

Making for big gaps in childhood memory ... and escapism in adult life..

That might be in the neighborhood of her pursuit of it I dunno.

I don't know that I *have* reconciled parental stuff.
My mother was an abuser.
I've worked years and years on this.

I'm interested to know how it goes for you.

comfyone

I'm really sorry that that's how you had to grow up. I could not imagine what it would be like to be beat by my parents, but I know how it is to grow up in a home where you can't show emotions. And my dad had a temper. Especially when I was younger. He'd never hurt me(which I am very thankful for), but he'd smash lots of things in the house. The worst part of it was saturdays. He declared saturday to be a chore day. That alone isn't a big deal, but his temper about it was. I can hardly remember a weekend where my siblings and I worked to his expectations. So every saturday would be a bad day. And when the school week was coming to an end. I knew I couldn't enjoy it because on saturday I was going to be miserable. And saturday morning, I knew other kids were probably sleeping in, or otherwise enjoying themselves. And he was just such a bitter man. Sometimes he would smile and silently chuckle, but I never heard him laugh until I was 17. And family vacations were some of the worst moments of my childhood. Those are supposed to be good times... I'm still really young (I'm only 19) But I'm trying to work things out with my parents slowly so that maybe we can have a healthier relationship as I become an adult.

It's hard to love people who hurt you so deeply. Maybe through more talking and exploring the issues with your counselor, you'll be able to figure out what level of forgiveness/compassion is right. And even though it might feel like it's not a good idea to explore the past, bringing it out into the open with others is probably the best thing you can do.

nandm

Thank you for the responses. I appreciate your insight and compassion.

historyteach

(((Judith)))

I'm sorry you are struggling so...

Shalom!

Anna

Oh Judith, I believed in that my parents did the best they could for a long time too, that it wasn't really that bad. As long as I believed that, I was stuck and couldn't even begin to get better.

My mother did not do the best she could. That sounds very judgemental and it was a hard place for me to come to. But, causing mental and physical suffering to another human being for twenty years, is not doing doing the best you can do. I was not a perfect mother, far from it. For three years, I was lost in alcohol. I truly wish I had done better. But, before that, and since then, I have tried to make up for it, every single day.

After detaching emotionally from my parents and giving myself some space, I was able to look back and see that I needed to let go of the anger. It was hard and happened in many, many stages, but I forgive them. I do not condone what happened in my childhood, but letting go of the anger is a gift to me.

I have the same kinds of bedtime issues that you do and those memories have not come full force to me yet and maybe they never will. But, I do know there is a connection with my horrible sleep difficulties and what happened to me at nighttime.

DesertEyes

Hey there Judith, and thank you for this wonderful thread

My story is similar to yours. I used to hide _under_ the bed, not under the covers. I also did the fantasy world thing in order to get to sleep. I don't call it "molestation", what was done to me was _rape_. "Molestation" is just too politically correct for my taste. The rest of my story is pretty much generic battered / raped child.

What I have learned in recovery is that my childhood established a number of _patterns_ and _habits_ in the way I think about the world, and in the way I create expectations. These patterns and habits allow me to see a number of choices that I can take in life, but they also _prevent_ me from seeing _all_ the choices.

When I first started recovery I felt deep discomfort at being hugged by strangers in meetings. Having been raped most of my childhood, that's no surprise. What _was_ surprising is that I would then feel uncomfortable towards the people who were "huggy", and felt comfortable with those who were cold and distant. My deepest feelings had developed a habit, if you will, of evaluating cold people as "safe" and warm people as too different and weird.

In turn, I would _act_ on those feelings. Simply because I did not know how _else_ to act. I did not know that those feelings were incorrect in the world of adults, or that it was possible to overcome them. That led me to avoiding warm people that could have been supportive of me, and led me to gravitate to cold people that were harmful to me.

Being friendly and gregarious was _impossible_ for me. I had no skills in that area. So I would just sit quietly in a corner and let the world flow past me. That was the best way to survive as a child, but a very lonely way to live as an adult. I did not know that it was possible for me to _be_ anything other than frightened. That choice was simply unknown to me as a result of my childhood. In recovery I learned from other people that such a choice _existed_, and that it was possible for me to _be_ a different, and healthier person.

As a result of the abuse I ran away from home at an early age, fell in with a bad crowd, started drinking, and progressed into a full fledged wino in just a few years. In recovery I have learned that there are no black and white, easy answers to life. My childhood is _not_ why I continued to drink once I started, but it _is_ the reason why I _started_ when I was so young. The explanation for _my_ alcoholism is a complicated mess of grays, some part genetics, some part abuse, and some part my own fault.

What my parents did was emotionally blind me to the non-painful aspects of life. I was like a blind man, left out in a field unable to see that there were many different paths back to safety. I could not tell that the one path I was on was just one of many. My emotional blindness prevented me from "seeing" all the options. In recovery I slowly "healed" my "emotional blindness" and recognized that I did have other choices. 'course, once I _see_ that choice it's up to me to pursue it. If I choose to remain on the unhealthy path once I see the others then I can no longer blame my childhood.

I've heard it said in another program I frequent that "Genetics loads the gun, but environment pulls the trigger". That is true for me. I think I would have had trouble with alcohol _anyway_ at some point in my life, simply because of genetics. The fact that I started so early was entirely my parents fault. The fact that once I started drinking I _continued_ to do so, well... that part is entirely on me.

The 12 steps of Adult Children of Alcoholics works that out for me. The first 6 steps show me how I spent my whole life trying to force the world into my unhealthy expectaions I learned as a child. The second 6 steps show me how to make _new_ expectations that are healthy and productive.

Mike

shutterbug

Nandm....I actually wish my therapist was more like yours. I've seen mine almost weekly for about 4 years now and I don't really feel like she helps me much. She just lets me ramble on like i would to a girlfriend. Sometimes she offers good advice and suggestions and a few times she's helped me work through things....but mostly i just jabber away.

I think you've got it right about the sleep issues. Who wouldn't be afraid to fall asleep at night with all that going on!! And who wouldn't want their bed to appear empty at night!!

I haven't willingly spoken to my father in several years now. He's an active alcoholic and I gave him several chances, but all my life he's been too self-absorbed to give a rat's butt about me and things didn't get any better once he started drinking. Now it's all about that. I have suspicions that he may have been inappropriate with me as a child and that i've blocked out it completely (something i did with a lot of things as a child), but i actually hope to NEVER remember any of those memories if they are really there in the back of my mind somewhere.

By reconciling....do you mean actually trying to have a relationship with him now that you are grown? Why would you want to? Maybe that's wrong of me to say, but nothing good has ever actually come out of me trying to have a relationship with my father so I finally decided to give up and it's been MUCH less stressful on me.

My mom, on the other hand, abandoned me growing up and then suddenly wanted to be a part of my life once i went off to college. It took me about 6 months to actually be okay with her being in my life and seeing her again. That was around 1995 and NOW she is the closest person to me in my life. I don't know how i would have survived the past 10 years without her! She's not only let me live in her rent house (rent free once landed in a major depressive episode and then lost my job because of it), but she's helped me move, has called me every morning for about 3 years now to help me get up so i can get into work (mornings are VERY hard for me and almost impossible at times), and helped me with a ZILLION other things over the past several years.

But it's a totally different thing with her....she just isn't good around kids unless they are babies. So once I moved out of my dad's house and was a "grown-up" then things were totally different and we became able to have a relationship for the first time.

Perhaps you could talk to your therapist and ask her lots of questions about why she sees this kind of inner child work necessary? I'm sure she'd be happy to tell you everything she's learned and knows about why it's a good thing to do in her opinion.

I don't think the alcoholism is your parents fault either....directly anyway. But indirectly, addictions almost always run through family lines. And often addictions and mental illness go hand-in-hand....both running through families for generations.

That said....i don't think your father did the best he knew how or had been taught. There is NO excuse for abusing your children and it was HIS CHOICE to not seek help for himself and the awful things he was doing to his children.

I do believe that childhood abuse DOES however have a lot of power over us becoming the people we end up becoming as adults. I've never had a healthy love relationship with a man and I TOTALLY believe that has 100% to do with the way i was brought up. Yes, I have choices, BUT I was taught that I was unworthy of real love and kindness and trying to "re-wire" my brain to believe that I'm not unloveable is going to be a life-long task. That's NOT my fault!!!

I'm not saying I necessarily 'blame' my parents for the way I turned out and the way I'm automatically wired to be attracted to abusive men.....but what I am saying is that it's not my fault either.

I don't think you should blame yourself for all those things you listed, but rather just take them for what they are - mistakes - and therefore try to learn from them and move forward. Don't blame yourself for becoming an alcoholic....rather accept that you did and now you have the power to change that and learn how to never return to that place. It is your responsibility to move forward once the light as been shed on mistakes, but the past is the past and all we can do is try to stay happy and healthy and take things one-day-at-a-time. And I think you are doing that.

love and hugs,
Jenna

barb dwyer

one thought came to me while reading ...

as children - we somehow come to the conclusion that... what we expereinced is 'love'.
Even from an abusive paretn- we 'register' that as 'love' and we always wrestle with that 'should love' parent thing...

and it becomes what we seek, whether consciously, or UNconsciously ... as adults.

and if what we were shown was abandonment, rejection, control, hostility ...
that is what we will seek.
because we think that ... is love.

and we won't even know we're doing it.

and we don't understand that what is driving us ...
what we think we want so very very much ....
isn't LOVE ... at all.
IT's pain.
it's abandonment.
it's fear.

so yea - I agree with the peeling the onion thing.

this is a great thread !

thanks!

best

The same way you did but then I took it a step deeper.
I have choices, they had choices. I should have followed their ways if I use the same reasoning but I didn't or when I had seen I was becoming a copy of them...I questioned my actions and changed what needed to be changed to the best of my understanding.
So what is left to do?

For their poor actions (many helped me learn what wasn't good) I found a gratefulness for what I learned by their poor example and I searched for forgiveness for them to finish off my healing.

barb dwyer

I'm learning what love is ... by discovering first ... what it isn't.

nandm

I want to say thank you to each of you for replying. Right now I am a little overwhelmed to say much more than thanks. Once I have processed this a little more I willl come back and do some replying.

Thanks.
Judith

nandm

Thank you for your replies.

The nightmares were really bad last night. Woke up several times. I am thankful that I know I am safe in the relationship I am in. I am also thankful for my dogs, as they are a great sense of comfort to me, especially in the middle of the night after a nightmare.

I think a lot of my confusion and struggle with reconciling my feelings about my parents comes from the fact I know the way I raised my children was not ideal. My two oldest spent the majority of their life being raised in an alcoholic home with a mother who was not there for them emotionally. I provided for their financial needs well but I could not give them something I could not deal with in myself, emotions. I struggle with the fact that I did the best that I could as an active alcoholic to provide for them and meet their needs. I was successful in many ways, they know right from wrong, they treat others with kindness, they are kind and giving people with wonderful hearts. But I know I caused a lot of damage and pain. My oldest daughter's cutting had a lot to do with my inability to teach her how to deal with emotions and pain. Ironically, although I never actually cut, from an early age I utilized pain to avoid feeling emotions. I still catch myself now pinching arms or digging my fingernails into myself when I am faced with emotions. I guess that because I know I could not transmit something I did not have that my parents could not transmit what they didn't have. So how can I be angry with them and forgive myself? I can not have two different standards on this. I have already been through the guilt and pain regarding the damage I have done to my children and been able to forgive myself for it. I also work daily on being a living ammends for my children.

Granted the situation with my parents was different. But is the situation all that different? Both of my parents were raised by alcoholic fathers. I suspect my mother was sexually abused as a child. I also suspect that my fathers brother molested him as a child. So were they just doing what they were taught? How could my mother choose to leave my father when she found out what he did? She was dependent upon him financially, I know when I spoke to her I downplayed it as I was caught offguard when she asked me about it and I did not want to hurt her. So it is likely she did not believe it or believed that I misunderstood the situation. I don't know what my sisters told her about what happened to them but I suspect they didn't tell her anything. Oh well enough of my rambling.

Thank you for the food for thought, each of your experiences has given me something to think about in putting all this in perspective.

ICU

It was in hindsight, 'after' I posted here, that I suspected this was where you were headed, (((Nandm))).

Let me copy what I said above, here...

Think about it!

nandm

Thank you, ICU. What you say makes a lot of sense.

nandm

I spoke with the psychologist about this. I now realize that it isn't about placing blame it is about finding the root cause of problems and dealing with it at the root rather than just treating the symptoms as they appear. What happened, happened, the choices that were made are done and can not be undone. Playing the blame game is non productive as it does not change the present. This is a relief as I was extremely conflicted about the whole thing.

Although there are things that when I look back anger me, today I know that I can channel that anger into a useful determination to work harder at getting better and healing rather than just be angry and have no where for it to go and let it eat me up.

Right now I am really struggling, I not only have all this I am working on but have the mess that is the result of the untreated PTSD to deal with. What an overwhelming mess it can appear to be when I look at it as a whole. Fortunately, I am able to take my anti-anxiety medication, utilize anxiety reducing tools such as breaking the whole "photo album of the mess down into single photographs" which are much easier to deal with. I have less desire to run when I see it as I only have this to deal with today, tomorrow I will pick another picture from the album and work on it. Ultimately, the whole mess will be cleared.

My heart has been breaking over the past week in dealing with the picture that I have to deal with at this point. But I picked up the phone and did my part to clean up the mess, it still hurts but not facing it will only drag the hurt out. It is times like this that I wish I could cry. If I could just have a good cry I know it would release some of this overwhelming sadness, pain, and sense of loss. But I learned that defense mechanism early and it is well ingrained in me. Maybe someday I will get to the point where I can let go of that defense mechanism and realize that it is safe and okay to cry now. No one is going to hit me, make me appear weaker, call me names, yell at me, be angrier, or shun me for crying. Just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other and maybe one day I will be whole again. But today, it is painful...........

DesertEyes

Judith, sounds to me like you are making excellent progress in your healing. However much it hurts, know that we're all here for you.

Mike

nandm

Thank you Mike.

I still find it ironic that I spent so many years drinking to not have to deal with all of this and now that I am sober it overwhelmed me and kicked my a** just as hard as alcohol did. Fortunately being sober I stand a chance to actually deal with it now rather than shove it under the rug. As they say "there is a solution" I just have to keep working toward it.

One good thing I do have constructive ways to deal with the anger. Exercise is a wonderful tool and I sure could use some. Maybe it is time to get downstairs and utilize all that exercise equipment that is gathering dust....lol
Can take my frustrations out on the boxing dummy.......hmmmm.....is picturing my dads face while I kick it's butt a bad thing.....lol

Oh well, tomorrow is a new day. Actually in 30 minutes it is a new day. Thank you all for your patience and for taking a moment to read this.

Judith

TiredMama

I never reconciled with my father. He abused me and my mother as I was growing up and nothing was ever done about it. He has schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, and he was a drug addict as well. I know those are not excuses for his abuse, but it didn't help the matter. My mom I suppose did the best she could with me as I was growing up. She never chose to leave him, which I held agaisnt her for the longest time, and even blamed on her. I felt like she was just letting him abuse me and she didn't even care.

I still have problems with my mother about my disorder because she also was a by the Bible person, for everything. She probably stayed with my father because she believes that person you marry is supposed to be the person you stay with for the rest of your life, no matter what.