Boundaries and Visits
Progress Not Perfection
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Boundaries and Visits
I need to vent:
I was thinking about boundaries.
I moved out of the home I shared with my parents when I was 20yrs old. I decided then that I would never live with alcoholics again. This was the beginning of my recovery.
I was reading a thread in another section of SR about how recovery begins to take over other areas of life and not just the alcoholic situations. I am finding that to be true as I am evaluating the quality of ALL my relationships.
I decided recently that there were some dysfunctional relatives that I didn't want to deal with anymore for at least a year. No contact.
And some dysfunctional relatives that I could deal with in a very limited fashion...like short phone conversations or letters.
Our move across the country, our new place that we love and WAS everything we hoped it would be, hubbys new job...all of this is the result of our HP and the strength He has given us to start over after seperating ourselves from dysfunctional relatives and the buisness we shared with them. We admit it was a mistake on our part for being a part of this buisness.
During our time involved in the family buisness, I feel I had an al-anon or acoa type "relapse" because I lost my serenity. SR helped with that. I have reclaimed some serenity and am working on my recovery again. I start my new meetings next week.
Mom is a relative I can deal with on a limited basis.
She calls to get our new address. Asks how we like it and says, "I can't wait to see it for myself." Truth be told...I don't think she will come. She visits my sister...who lives far away...but my sister and her husband pay for her plane ticket and I am not going to pay for her ticket.
Thats what makes my reaction to this *idea* even weirder to me. I have been in a funk for a week since she said this.
I know my husband deserves to visit with his family (some of which are my "no contact" relatives) if he choses to. I know my son should be able to see his grandparents, relatives ect. I do not want to interfere with this.
Would any of you share how you have set boundaries with alcoholic/dysfunctional relatives when it comes to them visiting your wife, husband, children? How does it work? Did they stay in a hotel? I think I may even stay in a hotel myself so that they can visit with eachother....
After what we have been through, the dysfunctioanl relative buisness, my acoa/alanon relapse...I feel freaked out at the idea of visits.
I know it is irrational. Is being irrational to protect yourself ok?
I am obsessing about a future event that may not even happen...but then, they have always visited us in the past.
I know I will feel better after "the first" time a visit happens in whatever capacity it "happens".
I am the common denominator in this. It is MY problem. I just need to have a safe haven I can escape to...an escape plan. I cannot be trapped with dysfunctional relatives with me playing hostess. If they come...I just need to remove myself and I am struggling with how.
This will be my first time dealing with this and I was wondering how others had dealt with this.
Thanks for letting me vent.
I was thinking about boundaries.
I moved out of the home I shared with my parents when I was 20yrs old. I decided then that I would never live with alcoholics again. This was the beginning of my recovery.
I was reading a thread in another section of SR about how recovery begins to take over other areas of life and not just the alcoholic situations. I am finding that to be true as I am evaluating the quality of ALL my relationships.
I decided recently that there were some dysfunctional relatives that I didn't want to deal with anymore for at least a year. No contact.
And some dysfunctional relatives that I could deal with in a very limited fashion...like short phone conversations or letters.
Our move across the country, our new place that we love and WAS everything we hoped it would be, hubbys new job...all of this is the result of our HP and the strength He has given us to start over after seperating ourselves from dysfunctional relatives and the buisness we shared with them. We admit it was a mistake on our part for being a part of this buisness.
During our time involved in the family buisness, I feel I had an al-anon or acoa type "relapse" because I lost my serenity. SR helped with that. I have reclaimed some serenity and am working on my recovery again. I start my new meetings next week.
Mom is a relative I can deal with on a limited basis.
She calls to get our new address. Asks how we like it and says, "I can't wait to see it for myself." Truth be told...I don't think she will come. She visits my sister...who lives far away...but my sister and her husband pay for her plane ticket and I am not going to pay for her ticket.
Thats what makes my reaction to this *idea* even weirder to me. I have been in a funk for a week since she said this.
I know my husband deserves to visit with his family (some of which are my "no contact" relatives) if he choses to. I know my son should be able to see his grandparents, relatives ect. I do not want to interfere with this.
Would any of you share how you have set boundaries with alcoholic/dysfunctional relatives when it comes to them visiting your wife, husband, children? How does it work? Did they stay in a hotel? I think I may even stay in a hotel myself so that they can visit with eachother....
After what we have been through, the dysfunctioanl relative buisness, my acoa/alanon relapse...I feel freaked out at the idea of visits.
I know it is irrational. Is being irrational to protect yourself ok?
I am obsessing about a future event that may not even happen...but then, they have always visited us in the past.
I know I will feel better after "the first" time a visit happens in whatever capacity it "happens".
I am the common denominator in this. It is MY problem. I just need to have a safe haven I can escape to...an escape plan. I cannot be trapped with dysfunctional relatives with me playing hostess. If they come...I just need to remove myself and I am struggling with how.
This will be my first time dealing with this and I was wondering how others had dealt with this.
Thanks for letting me vent.
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Growing,
As you know, I also went through this recently. This questioning of our own instincts for serenity & survival; this "am I being unreasonable" line of thought when it comes to visiting or allowing visitors.
My own feeling on the matter is that, at this point, you have the right to set whatever boundary you need to set, without worrying over whether it's correct or fair to others. I also feel that perhaps you simply are not ready for a visit from your mom, and you need to cut yourself some slack here.
Maybe you'd be willing to put a moratorium on visitors for this first six months in your new home, while you are setting in physically, spiritually, and emotionally. There may come a time when a visit from your mom would be something you could approach with something less than the dread you're currently feeling.
And perhaps you haven't yet found a way to establish boundaries with her. Are there lines that she continues to cross, regardless of whether it causes you discomfort? (drinking too much, etc.) Maybe the purpose of this time is for you to shore up those boundaries and make sure they're darned clear before she comes.
So it takes a while for you to find your feet -- big deal. Your children, when they grow up, will likely never remember that in so-and-so a year, they didn't see your mom.
Take this time for you. Get strong again in your new home.
Take a deep breath and know that you are a good person, and you are fine no matter what you decide.
As you know, I also went through this recently. This questioning of our own instincts for serenity & survival; this "am I being unreasonable" line of thought when it comes to visiting or allowing visitors.
My own feeling on the matter is that, at this point, you have the right to set whatever boundary you need to set, without worrying over whether it's correct or fair to others. I also feel that perhaps you simply are not ready for a visit from your mom, and you need to cut yourself some slack here.
Maybe you'd be willing to put a moratorium on visitors for this first six months in your new home, while you are setting in physically, spiritually, and emotionally. There may come a time when a visit from your mom would be something you could approach with something less than the dread you're currently feeling.
And perhaps you haven't yet found a way to establish boundaries with her. Are there lines that she continues to cross, regardless of whether it causes you discomfort? (drinking too much, etc.) Maybe the purpose of this time is for you to shore up those boundaries and make sure they're darned clear before she comes.
So it takes a while for you to find your feet -- big deal. Your children, when they grow up, will likely never remember that in so-and-so a year, they didn't see your mom.
Take this time for you. Get strong again in your new home.
Take a deep breath and know that you are a good person, and you are fine no matter what you decide.
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Harriet Lerner's books helped me a lot with family-of-origin issues. She has several, The Dance of Anger, The Dance of Intimacy, The Dance of Fear. But they all speak about mostly the same stuff. That you cannot have healthy relationships until you deal with your "original" relationships. We grow up with our parents in a certain role and we are in a certain role, whatever those roles may be. As adults we continue playing the same role and until we break free and interact with them as adults in our own right, the dysfunction continues. This doesn't mean you have to allow her to visit if you don't want her to. It only means you must look at it from a different perspective than you did as a child. I highly recommend any one of her books as a catalyst for approaching family relationships in a new way.
Good luck.
L
Good luck.
L
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I know my son should be able to see his grandparents,
From someone who came from a long line of alcoholics, I can tell you that I had absolutely no desire at all as a child to see my maternal grandparents, and when my grandmother died, all I can remember thinking was "good, I don't have to see her anymore." My paternal grandparents were kind to me and wonderful and one of the few stable influences I had - for them I mourned. But if you find your son's grandparents so intolerable that you don't want to be around them, I don't see why your son *should* be around them.
As for "irrational" boundaries, I'd like to give an example: I have never been bitten by a snake. The only snakes I've ever been exposed to have all been harmless. Yet I would absolutely not allow a viper into my house. This is not "rational" in the sense that I have had negative experiences with vipers. Actually, knowing what I know about vipers, I believe I could prevent myself from any horrible experience with a viper. Consequently, the "rational" boundary would be that the viper could come into my house as long as no one required me to handle it. And yet, I still would not allow it in my house. Which is "right", my "rational" boundary (in the house, but I don't have to handle it) or my "irrational" boundary (no way, nuh uh, nope, not gonna happen)?
Your boundaries are yours. They are yours to own and to defend. It doesn't matter where they come from. There are certain words that I ask my husband not to use because they are severe triggers for me. My husband has never done anything to make those words have the same meaning that they did previously in my life. So that is an "irrational" boundary based on how you're defining it. I know it's based on my past experience and not on anything my husband has ever done to me, and yet, because he loves me and because he respects my boundaries, he doesn't use those words around me. Boundaries aren't 'rational' or 'irrational'. Boundaries are protective. It doesn't matter where yours stem from, if it protects you, then it's working properly.
Progress Not Perfection
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I am so thankful for you three and SR...I don't even know what to say right now other than, you guys hit the nail on the head. You understand what I am going through and I feel cared for. I am processing....there is so much good "meat" to chew on in your responses. I will be back to this thread.
I thank you!
I thank you!
Progress Not Perfection
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I talked with mom again today...it was just a regular conversation...she asked to speak to my son...I get back on the phone and then we say our goodbyes. My son tells me that "nanny" just talked about how she couldn't wait to visit and that she had a conversation with another relative about how she was coming. WTF? Why didn't she say anything to me about it?
I am still in a mental funk...but I have decided that I will write her a letter and tell her that it is too soon in my recovery-pt.2 to have visits. I just spent the last year in codie relapse. She knows I just spent the last year in codie relapse because she is the one that told me I needed to get back on track in alanon or acoa....she being a 11yrs recovering A herself (involved with aa,ect) My mom wasn't involved in the dysfunctional family buisness...she is just stressful to me because she can be uber-codie herself.
It is amazing how hard it "feels" to stand up to my relatives and say no. I want my recovery more than anything else now though. This will be the hardest thing I have done, up to date, in my recovery...besides the letter I wrote my dad when he was dying.
My husband is very supportive and I am very grateful for him.
I find myself wanting to float into a comfortable depression over this. I find myself asking, "Why can't they just leave me the ***L alone?". But at the same time, I can see that my HP is requiring me to be more honest and address these issues with words. I am having to give a voice to my needs.
I am still in a mental funk...but I have decided that I will write her a letter and tell her that it is too soon in my recovery-pt.2 to have visits. I just spent the last year in codie relapse. She knows I just spent the last year in codie relapse because she is the one that told me I needed to get back on track in alanon or acoa....she being a 11yrs recovering A herself (involved with aa,ect) My mom wasn't involved in the dysfunctional family buisness...she is just stressful to me because she can be uber-codie herself.
It is amazing how hard it "feels" to stand up to my relatives and say no. I want my recovery more than anything else now though. This will be the hardest thing I have done, up to date, in my recovery...besides the letter I wrote my dad when he was dying.
My husband is very supportive and I am very grateful for him.
I find myself wanting to float into a comfortable depression over this. I find myself asking, "Why can't they just leave me the ***L alone?". But at the same time, I can see that my HP is requiring me to be more honest and address these issues with words. I am having to give a voice to my needs.
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So be it. You made a good decision for yourself. It's scary to mail, but then you've stood up for yourself and can get on with your day, your week, (YOUR life) and back on track!
What a joy having a supporting husband must be
It is so nice to hear that men are also heros.
What a joy having a supporting husband must be
It is so nice to hear that men are also heros.
Progress Not Perfection
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"Why *should* your son be required to see his grandparents if they are so toxic that you, as and adult, don't want to be around them?"
This is a great question Ginger and something that I have been thinking about alot. Just today, my son got a letter from his paternal grandmother (a no contact for me) with money inside. This is classic. She gives him money...whats not to love about grandma?
My son is a pre-teen. I think she does this so that he is always positive when it comes to her. Here I am, and she is on my toxic relative no contact list. I will just have to talk to my son, AGAIN, and explain that grandma uses money so that people will overlook her emotional and verbal abuse. This is the lady that took my son out ONCE in the two years that we spent sharing the buisness and get this....she lived only a few blocks away.
I think I need therapy.
This is a great question Ginger and something that I have been thinking about alot. Just today, my son got a letter from his paternal grandmother (a no contact for me) with money inside. This is classic. She gives him money...whats not to love about grandma?
My son is a pre-teen. I think she does this so that he is always positive when it comes to her. Here I am, and she is on my toxic relative no contact list. I will just have to talk to my son, AGAIN, and explain that grandma uses money so that people will overlook her emotional and verbal abuse. This is the lady that took my son out ONCE in the two years that we spent sharing the buisness and get this....she lived only a few blocks away.
I think I need therapy.
Progress Not Perfection
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Seriously, I thought, detaching, taking care of me/practicing self-care, making decisions that were right for us, moving, starting over and leaving them the ***L alone was enough. It wasn't I guess. I am stuck inside myself...like frozen in time, for now. But I know, this too shall pass. My HP has walked me through so many times. I am so grateful for the program that I do have...I know I will be shown a way out of where I am right now. Maybe I need a counselor to help me firm up some boundaries. I am like a deer in the headlights.
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Sorry you're having to go through this, Growing.
I found that having a good counselor (once I found one that is) was just like having a secret treasure chest. Whenever I found myself in dire straits, I could go to my counselor and he would help me pull the right answers out of my mind and my soul. I had them, just as you have them, but there have been times when I couldn't untangle the mess in my head to save my soul.
And anyway, it's great to have somebody to act as a sounding board.
You'll be okay.........I know you will, you know you will, your HP knows you will. Your son will grow up to be a good man. You are far from them now. Take a deep breath and let it out slowly
I found that having a good counselor (once I found one that is) was just like having a secret treasure chest. Whenever I found myself in dire straits, I could go to my counselor and he would help me pull the right answers out of my mind and my soul. I had them, just as you have them, but there have been times when I couldn't untangle the mess in my head to save my soul.
And anyway, it's great to have somebody to act as a sounding board.
You'll be okay.........I know you will, you know you will, your HP knows you will. Your son will grow up to be a good man. You are far from them now. Take a deep breath and let it out slowly
Progress Not Perfection
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Thank you so much GL. I can't explain how awesome it is to know that you understand and that you "have been there" and it trully helps me to know that you have a great counselor...it makes the idea that I could also have a great counselor more real.
I want what you have...someone to help me untangle the mess in my brain. Especially when it comes to figuring out how to protect myself appropriately.
If it is not too personal to ask...could you or anyone else explain the process of choosing a counselor? How did you know that your counselor was right for you? I know that we are all unique...what works for one doesn't work for another...but I am the type of person who learns by "seeing". I am a "just show me how to do it" type of person. I work well off of a basic framework that I "flesh in" myself.
The one counselor I have been to was the "just listening" type. He asked questions but never was like, "O.K. here are some proactive measures to consider, or, this line of thinking is not productive..ect." He just listened and asked very little...I came away from it feeling more alone than when I went in. I certainly didn't feel like I was getting help setting boundaries. I went to 6 appointments...did I stop way too early? I really felt he wasn't right for me. I could tell he didn't like me as a person. He kinda groaned when he saw me coming.
I think I would like someone who was more like a life coach. Remember that show, "Starting Over"? I used to really like that show...I remember thinking I would like that type of counseling...just more realistic and in real life.
I read somewhere that it takes a year of counseling before you really get anywhere. Before the counselor even knows what you are about.
So do I just need to be patient and take everything slower than I am really comfortable with? Is that the point? It took me years to get messed up, so it will take years to unravel my issues?
I am just like one big question right now...sorry.
I am feeling better today...I had a great morning...up at sunrise walking the dog...drinking coffee and enjoying the colorful sunrise.
I want what you have...someone to help me untangle the mess in my brain. Especially when it comes to figuring out how to protect myself appropriately.
If it is not too personal to ask...could you or anyone else explain the process of choosing a counselor? How did you know that your counselor was right for you? I know that we are all unique...what works for one doesn't work for another...but I am the type of person who learns by "seeing". I am a "just show me how to do it" type of person. I work well off of a basic framework that I "flesh in" myself.
The one counselor I have been to was the "just listening" type. He asked questions but never was like, "O.K. here are some proactive measures to consider, or, this line of thinking is not productive..ect." He just listened and asked very little...I came away from it feeling more alone than when I went in. I certainly didn't feel like I was getting help setting boundaries. I went to 6 appointments...did I stop way too early? I really felt he wasn't right for me. I could tell he didn't like me as a person. He kinda groaned when he saw me coming.
I think I would like someone who was more like a life coach. Remember that show, "Starting Over"? I used to really like that show...I remember thinking I would like that type of counseling...just more realistic and in real life.
I read somewhere that it takes a year of counseling before you really get anywhere. Before the counselor even knows what you are about.
So do I just need to be patient and take everything slower than I am really comfortable with? Is that the point? It took me years to get messed up, so it will take years to unravel my issues?
I am just like one big question right now...sorry.
I am feeling better today...I had a great morning...up at sunrise walking the dog...drinking coffee and enjoying the colorful sunrise.
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It may be easier to explain to your son that this is gramma's way of "buying" his affection. She doesn't show him *real* attention, so the money is a substitute. Then ask him if he'd rather have you love him with all your heart, or have you just give him money once in a while.
It didn't take me long as a child to realize that money was a substitute for love (and for control, as they controlled my emotions by giving money). I came to detest being given money.
It didn't take me long as a child to realize that money was a substitute for love (and for control, as they controlled my emotions by giving money). I came to detest being given money.
Progress Not Perfection
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Thank you Ginger...Its like a light bulb coming on for me...this behavior of my toxic relatives IS unacceptable...I know it is for me. I think I had doubts as to whether this behavior was abusive or not. You guys pointing out this in various parts of my post have shown me this. Its like....yeah...this behavior right here...this is abusive.
I will have that conversation with my son...I think I will use your same words because they are more concise and to the point than what I was going to "explain". Thank you Ginger for the clarity you have given me, and the "permission" that I needed. Why I needed this permission is something for me to think about...I will ponder that.
I will have that conversation with my son...I think I will use your same words because they are more concise and to the point than what I was going to "explain". Thank you Ginger for the clarity you have given me, and the "permission" that I needed. Why I needed this permission is something for me to think about...I will ponder that.
Progress Not Perfection
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I realized I was changing topics so I started a new thread on counseling.
You can post about counseling over there if you choose.
I welcome anyone elses comments on "my vent" here, also.
Thanks
You can post about counseling over there if you choose.
I welcome anyone elses comments on "my vent" here, also.
Thanks
Progress Not Perfection
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Called mom yesterday to thank her for some gifts she had sent. She rarely sends anything...never bothers me...but it was a rare instance. She acts like, "Why are you calling me." I'm like, I just wanted to thank you for the gifts. Mom: "Oh.....ok....hope you enjoy it....I gotta go ....I'm going to eat dinner now.."
It was 5pm. I lived with her for 20yrs. I visited with her just 3 months ago.
She never eats dinner before 6pm. If anything, since dad died..she eats later, like 7 or 8pm. It just gets me because it was such an obviously lame excuse to get rid of me, and what, I don't know when she eats dinner? She is talking to her eldest daughter! On top of that, I was only calling because she sent me something. Its not like I made it up.
Some might say maybe I don't have all the facts or maybe something else unrelated to me was going on or maybe she didn't mean it.....She treated me like a total stranger. Just this weekend...we had a semi-normal conversation and she acted supportive.
:wtf2
With my mom....the chaos didn't stop with her drinking. I am finding it hard to build on anything consistent....She seems to struggle with being consistent with her emotions toward me as her daughter.
Got me thinking....if she doesn't want me to interupt her "dinner" then why should I allow her to interupt my life?: Get me thinking all crazy and worried about her visit? No wonder I am dreading her visit. Which mom would show up? The supportive AA mom....or the mom who is "put out" with me?
Somehow, I don't think it is healthy to live in confusion over this relationship. I have to ask myself some questions and figure out my choices.
It was 5pm. I lived with her for 20yrs. I visited with her just 3 months ago.
She never eats dinner before 6pm. If anything, since dad died..she eats later, like 7 or 8pm. It just gets me because it was such an obviously lame excuse to get rid of me, and what, I don't know when she eats dinner? She is talking to her eldest daughter! On top of that, I was only calling because she sent me something. Its not like I made it up.
Some might say maybe I don't have all the facts or maybe something else unrelated to me was going on or maybe she didn't mean it.....She treated me like a total stranger. Just this weekend...we had a semi-normal conversation and she acted supportive.
:wtf2
With my mom....the chaos didn't stop with her drinking. I am finding it hard to build on anything consistent....She seems to struggle with being consistent with her emotions toward me as her daughter.
Got me thinking....if she doesn't want me to interupt her "dinner" then why should I allow her to interupt my life?: Get me thinking all crazy and worried about her visit? No wonder I am dreading her visit. Which mom would show up? The supportive AA mom....or the mom who is "put out" with me?
Somehow, I don't think it is healthy to live in confusion over this relationship. I have to ask myself some questions and figure out my choices.
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Hey growing,
Do you like talking to people like that on the phone, in general? People who only want to talk to you when there's something in it for them? People who rush you off the line rudely?
If you don't, as I don't, maybe you might consider just a simple little Thank You card next time. It takes three minutes to write, you can express what you want, and you don't have to deal with her chaotic mind and her mixed-up values.
I've become a terrific card writer, for just this reason. Sometimes, I just need to overcome my phone-calling compulsions by writing it down, waiting a day or two, and sending it off. (Plus, people usually keep and appreciate cards more.) Breathe. Think about why I'm doing this. Make sure my motives are crystal-pure, and that I have no expectations.
I understand why you might want to continue to bend over backwards to have a healthy relationship with this woman, but the truth is that her actions are damaging your serenity -- an emotional felony in my book.
Hugs to you, friend
Do you like talking to people like that on the phone, in general? People who only want to talk to you when there's something in it for them? People who rush you off the line rudely?
If you don't, as I don't, maybe you might consider just a simple little Thank You card next time. It takes three minutes to write, you can express what you want, and you don't have to deal with her chaotic mind and her mixed-up values.
I've become a terrific card writer, for just this reason. Sometimes, I just need to overcome my phone-calling compulsions by writing it down, waiting a day or two, and sending it off. (Plus, people usually keep and appreciate cards more.) Breathe. Think about why I'm doing this. Make sure my motives are crystal-pure, and that I have no expectations.
I understand why you might want to continue to bend over backwards to have a healthy relationship with this woman, but the truth is that her actions are damaging your serenity -- an emotional felony in my book.
Hugs to you, friend
Progress Not Perfection
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You are right...With every post I type...and with your response...My situation becomes clearer...I see now that I feel obligated to have a relationship with her because she is sober...like I have to...she used to drink..now she doesn't...so I have to bend over backwards for her...like I have to be some sort of "thanks for getting sober" gift...Wow...this is blowing me away...In a great sort of way...with each response you have given me in this thread...I feel free-er..and free-er...
You trully are a friend GL. The best kind of friend. I want to thank you for being honest with me. I actually couldn't see myself. I realize a good portion of my confusion comes from her sobriety. She got sober...so whats my excuse---this type of thinking. Just because they get sober doesn't mean that you can force a relationship.
OH..GL...I feel like I am starting my recovery all over again....this is what panics me I guess...my heart gets all racy...I guess I am starting over...time to relax and begin again. Whats funny is my body wouldn't physically let me be a doormat this time with her.
You trully are a friend GL. The best kind of friend. I want to thank you for being honest with me. I actually couldn't see myself. I realize a good portion of my confusion comes from her sobriety. She got sober...so whats my excuse---this type of thinking. Just because they get sober doesn't mean that you can force a relationship.
OH..GL...I feel like I am starting my recovery all over again....this is what panics me I guess...my heart gets all racy...I guess I am starting over...time to relax and begin again. Whats funny is my body wouldn't physically let me be a doormat this time with her.
Progress Not Perfection
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: "Further up and further in!"---C.S. Lewis
Posts: 563
You are right about the card/s. I know I will do that next time. I set myself up with this phonecall big time. You are right. We really are acoa's! I felt compelled to call her because she sent a gift...It was a compulsion...I didn't even question it...uggghhh.
Something I forgot to type...I see also that I was blinded to these issues because she always talks a good aa talk. All about the steps, 4th step, her higher power, serenity, how important her serenity is, resentments, how long she has been in aa, 11yrs , ect...this confuses me because I assume that:
1. she is my mother and has the best intentions for me at heart
2. if these aa ideals are important for her, then she must want that serenity for me also.
I have this phantasy idea of our relationship based on my own assumptions. I see clearly now that this is not reality.
To repeat myself:
"I see now that I feel obligated to have a relationship with her because she is sober...like I have to...she used to drink..now she doesn't...so I have to bend over backwards for her...like I have to be some sort of "thanks for getting sober" gift..."
Something I forgot to type...I see also that I was blinded to these issues because she always talks a good aa talk. All about the steps, 4th step, her higher power, serenity, how important her serenity is, resentments, how long she has been in aa, 11yrs , ect...this confuses me because I assume that:
1. she is my mother and has the best intentions for me at heart
2. if these aa ideals are important for her, then she must want that serenity for me also.
I have this phantasy idea of our relationship based on my own assumptions. I see clearly now that this is not reality.
To repeat myself:
"I see now that I feel obligated to have a relationship with her because she is sober...like I have to...she used to drink..now she doesn't...so I have to bend over backwards for her...like I have to be some sort of "thanks for getting sober" gift..."
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 325
Growing,
Thanks for your vent.
I don't know you or your mom, but I do know me and mine! Started feeling familiar to me- especially the phone call- the dinner excuse...
My mom would pull the same type of thing.
My counselor labled it "abandonment." "passive/aggressive" abuse.
If mom didn't get her way, (the visit to your home) out comes the old bag of tricks. She certainly has become important to you recently hasn't she?? You're spending a lot of time with her (in your mind). She's getting your attention by pushing your buttons!!
Instead of directly telling you how she felt or asking you directly WHY you haven't already invited her to your home- sent the airline ticket like your sibling. She is mad... she just can't ground you anymore!!
Games... it's all just games. If your mom is like mine. By the way- mine doesn't drink anymore either- she just needs to take a lot of pills her doctor prescribed.. For sleep, for pain, for whatever!
Try not to take it personally! (ha-ha-easy to say, please tell me to do the same)
Here are some words someone once told me. Relationships should be Win/Win- it you ever feel you are in a lose/lose, damned if you do and damned if you don't situation there is probably some form of manipulation going on. If the choice is you are either going to feel like an assh*le or a doormat, be the assh*le. Because after you are the doormat you will probably feel like a assh*le any way!!
Take care,
StillLearning
Thanks for your vent.
I don't know you or your mom, but I do know me and mine! Started feeling familiar to me- especially the phone call- the dinner excuse...
My mom would pull the same type of thing.
My counselor labled it "abandonment." "passive/aggressive" abuse.
If mom didn't get her way, (the visit to your home) out comes the old bag of tricks. She certainly has become important to you recently hasn't she?? You're spending a lot of time with her (in your mind). She's getting your attention by pushing your buttons!!
Instead of directly telling you how she felt or asking you directly WHY you haven't already invited her to your home- sent the airline ticket like your sibling. She is mad... she just can't ground you anymore!!
Games... it's all just games. If your mom is like mine. By the way- mine doesn't drink anymore either- she just needs to take a lot of pills her doctor prescribed.. For sleep, for pain, for whatever!
Try not to take it personally! (ha-ha-easy to say, please tell me to do the same)
Here are some words someone once told me. Relationships should be Win/Win- it you ever feel you are in a lose/lose, damned if you do and damned if you don't situation there is probably some form of manipulation going on. If the choice is you are either going to feel like an assh*le or a doormat, be the assh*le. Because after you are the doormat you will probably feel like a assh*le any way!!
Take care,
StillLearning
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Growing,
Sometimes we have to start recovery over. That's just fine. Sometimes we have to go weed the garden and turn the soil over again more than once, too, if we want things to grow. Sometimes we read the same book twenty years later and find a thousand healing messages that we didn't get the first time. Sometimes other people change up their behavior toward us, and we have to learn a different way to be around them.
This is all fine, Growing. And you know what? It might even be good.
Every time I felt like I finally "got it" and was close to learning everything I needed to know to put my sick past behind me, I climbed up on the next ledge and realized that I still was only part-way up the mountain. At first it made me sick --- damn it, I want to put this behind me NOW and be done with it! --
But the more times you have revisit your own healing, the more you learn. You travel deeper and deeper into recovery, seeing different sights each time. You get calmer, stronger, wiser.
It's okay if you have to start again, because I think you know that you're not starting at zero again. You're just......maybe think of it as......backing up a little bit to work on something some more, and maybe call in some help from others, professionals, meetings, us, in thinking things through.
All will be well, Growing. You are a smart, resourceful, compassionate woman, and you will get through this time. (you're also in a new environment and that is forcing subtle stresses on you that you may not be aware of, compromising things for you on the recovery front......I hate to be a broken record but......give yourself a break here)
We are all here for you.
XOXOX
P.S. GREAT breakthrough thinking, seeing that you were offering yourself up as some sort of "thanks for getting sober" door prize. Just as her choice to drink was not yours to cause or control, her choice to get sober is not yours to complex over either. It sounds like she still has a ways to go before she'll realize the joy she's turning her back on, by treating you the way she does...
Sometimes we have to start recovery over. That's just fine. Sometimes we have to go weed the garden and turn the soil over again more than once, too, if we want things to grow. Sometimes we read the same book twenty years later and find a thousand healing messages that we didn't get the first time. Sometimes other people change up their behavior toward us, and we have to learn a different way to be around them.
This is all fine, Growing. And you know what? It might even be good.
Every time I felt like I finally "got it" and was close to learning everything I needed to know to put my sick past behind me, I climbed up on the next ledge and realized that I still was only part-way up the mountain. At first it made me sick --- damn it, I want to put this behind me NOW and be done with it! --
But the more times you have revisit your own healing, the more you learn. You travel deeper and deeper into recovery, seeing different sights each time. You get calmer, stronger, wiser.
It's okay if you have to start again, because I think you know that you're not starting at zero again. You're just......maybe think of it as......backing up a little bit to work on something some more, and maybe call in some help from others, professionals, meetings, us, in thinking things through.
All will be well, Growing. You are a smart, resourceful, compassionate woman, and you will get through this time. (you're also in a new environment and that is forcing subtle stresses on you that you may not be aware of, compromising things for you on the recovery front......I hate to be a broken record but......give yourself a break here)
We are all here for you.
XOXOX
P.S. GREAT breakthrough thinking, seeing that you were offering yourself up as some sort of "thanks for getting sober" door prize. Just as her choice to drink was not yours to cause or control, her choice to get sober is not yours to complex over either. It sounds like she still has a ways to go before she'll realize the joy she's turning her back on, by treating you the way she does...
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