How did I do? kinda long
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How did I do? kinda long
I've posted off and on for the last year and a half about my Dad. We've not spoken during that time. He is 81 years old, an active alcoholic after 40 years as a dry drunk and apparently incapable of any interaction with me that's not abusive. For the last 18 months I've written him a letter a month updating him on my life (I'm his only child) and that of his only grandchild.
My son is in the hospital being treated for depression, etc. Realizing that word would get back to my Dad my h called him and updated him on our son's situation. The call went well. Two days later my Dad left the most hateful, profanity laden message you could ever imagine on our home phone. He ended by saying that he had a gallon of liquor and was going to drink it all, right then.
After a cool down of several hours, I wrote my Dad a letter. I figured that after this length of time, to respond by phone would mean that next time he'd just be even more abusive, faster. I let him know that our son's condition is the same and as previously agreed my husband would call him when anything changed. I then told him this was the last time I would ever respond to an abusive exchange from him. That from now on he would address me and my husband respectfully or we would ignore him. I told him he was welcome to call, when he felt he could conduct himself in a civil manner. I also told him that while I had ignored him this time, the next time he threatened to harm himself, I would be calling the Sheriff's Dept. and requesting a home wellness check.
I'm staying with the nuns at a retreat house in the city where my son was hospitalized. The sister's think my letter was me trying to control my Dad's behavior. I think it was me drawing long overdue boundaries. Thoughts?
My son is in the hospital being treated for depression, etc. Realizing that word would get back to my Dad my h called him and updated him on our son's situation. The call went well. Two days later my Dad left the most hateful, profanity laden message you could ever imagine on our home phone. He ended by saying that he had a gallon of liquor and was going to drink it all, right then.
After a cool down of several hours, I wrote my Dad a letter. I figured that after this length of time, to respond by phone would mean that next time he'd just be even more abusive, faster. I let him know that our son's condition is the same and as previously agreed my husband would call him when anything changed. I then told him this was the last time I would ever respond to an abusive exchange from him. That from now on he would address me and my husband respectfully or we would ignore him. I told him he was welcome to call, when he felt he could conduct himself in a civil manner. I also told him that while I had ignored him this time, the next time he threatened to harm himself, I would be calling the Sheriff's Dept. and requesting a home wellness check.
I'm staying with the nuns at a retreat house in the city where my son was hospitalized. The sister's think my letter was me trying to control my Dad's behavior. I think it was me drawing long overdue boundaries. Thoughts?
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This is the way i have to communicate with my parents too.....Its way to hard to be around people such a these and well i made the decision myself to cut of both my mom, step dad and well my dad too....not an easy thing to do, but they are toxic in everyway..if you feel in your heart your making the right choice then beleive it...for me i set my priorities, focus and love on my kids and try really really hard not to be like them..good luck to you and your efforts....my prayers with your son....hope he gets well soon.
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Hello and Welcome to SR, you are in the right place!
I realized after reading this that I am only telling you things you already know. But sometimes we just need others to validate what we are already guessing to be true.
I care about you. I am not angry at you but I am angry at this disease.
My parents were both alcoholics my whole life growing up. Mom and Dad were abusive to eachother physically, verbally and emotionally. I moved out and after a few years my dad died in his alcoholism.
"and apparently incapable of any interaction with me that's not abusive."----I don't think you need another abusive phone call or message. Maybe you should consider going "no contact". Some of us acoa's have decided n/c is best for us especially if we have/or are enduring abuse.
"For the last 18 months I've written him a letter a month updating him on my life (I'm his only child) and that of his only grandchild"----writing letters gives us the feeling of *contact*.
I do sense that you are trying to treat your dad like a healthy dad, but he isn't. A healthy dad would want to know how his only child and grandchild are doing, but he is not healthy.
Boundaries are great if you stick with them...and your dad has to respect your boundaries for this scenario to work..I don't know if he is capable of that. If someone is not capable of respecting anyones boundaries, then it is only fair to consider going no contact (no letters) with them.
"Two days later my Dad left the most hateful, profanity laden message you could ever imagine on our home phone. He ended by saying that he had a gallon of liquor and was going to drink it all, right then."----Has your father let you know that he *wants* to be contacted, by phone or mail? It doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted.
"I think it was me drawing long overdue boundaries. Thoughts?"---The question might be, "Is it too late for boundaries with dad?".
It might be better to seperate yourself and work on your recovery in peace, if thats what you want.
Care, support and prayers sent your way,
Growing
I realized after reading this that I am only telling you things you already know. But sometimes we just need others to validate what we are already guessing to be true.
I care about you. I am not angry at you but I am angry at this disease.
My parents were both alcoholics my whole life growing up. Mom and Dad were abusive to eachother physically, verbally and emotionally. I moved out and after a few years my dad died in his alcoholism.
"and apparently incapable of any interaction with me that's not abusive."----I don't think you need another abusive phone call or message. Maybe you should consider going "no contact". Some of us acoa's have decided n/c is best for us especially if we have/or are enduring abuse.
"For the last 18 months I've written him a letter a month updating him on my life (I'm his only child) and that of his only grandchild"----writing letters gives us the feeling of *contact*.
I do sense that you are trying to treat your dad like a healthy dad, but he isn't. A healthy dad would want to know how his only child and grandchild are doing, but he is not healthy.
Boundaries are great if you stick with them...and your dad has to respect your boundaries for this scenario to work..I don't know if he is capable of that. If someone is not capable of respecting anyones boundaries, then it is only fair to consider going no contact (no letters) with them.
"Two days later my Dad left the most hateful, profanity laden message you could ever imagine on our home phone. He ended by saying that he had a gallon of liquor and was going to drink it all, right then."----Has your father let you know that he *wants* to be contacted, by phone or mail? It doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted.
"I think it was me drawing long overdue boundaries. Thoughts?"---The question might be, "Is it too late for boundaries with dad?".
It might be better to seperate yourself and work on your recovery in peace, if thats what you want.
Care, support and prayers sent your way,
Growing
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Hello there easeful 
I _love_ what you said to your Dad. I think it does a wonderful job of setting your boundaries without being hurtful or spiteful. With all due respect to the sisters, they're not members of al-anon
I am so sorry that your son is in a hospital, that must be incredibly difficult for you and your husband. Are there any meetings of al-anon that you can get to? You might find it very helpful to have other people that "get it" whom you can talk to in real life. You can find them in the local phone book.
glad you decided to post again. I'm praying for your son and your Dad every day, and for you and your husband. You guys have a _lot_ of hardship right now, know that all of us here are willing to listen any time.
Mike
I _love_ what you said to your Dad. I think it does a wonderful job of setting your boundaries without being hurtful or spiteful. With all due respect to the sisters, they're not members of al-anon
I am so sorry that your son is in a hospital, that must be incredibly difficult for you and your husband. Are there any meetings of al-anon that you can get to? You might find it very helpful to have other people that "get it" whom you can talk to in real life. You can find them in the local phone book.
glad you decided to post again. I'm praying for your son and your Dad every day, and for you and your husband. You guys have a _lot_ of hardship right now, know that all of us here are willing to listen any time.
Mike
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I too think you did great with your letter. Time will tell if he chooses to treat you with respect or not. Should he decide not to, then you do have choices...continue contact with him, or end contact?
I don't think of setting boundaries as controlling anyone else's behavior, but rather, stating to yourself (and sometimes others) what it is you will or will not accept. It's kind of a murky 'difference' to explain. When we set a boundary, sure, I guess some are hopeful someone might change their behavior. If I'm honest with myself I do kind of have a little hope for that. But, even still, that's not why I set a boundary. I do that for me! To keep me safe from harms way.
Sorry to hear about your son! I'll keep you all in my prayers.
I don't think of setting boundaries as controlling anyone else's behavior, but rather, stating to yourself (and sometimes others) what it is you will or will not accept. It's kind of a murky 'difference' to explain. When we set a boundary, sure, I guess some are hopeful someone might change their behavior. If I'm honest with myself I do kind of have a little hope for that. But, even still, that's not why I set a boundary. I do that for me! To keep me safe from harms way.
Sorry to hear about your son! I'll keep you all in my prayers.
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>"Two days later my Dad left the most hateful, profanity laden message you could ever imagine on our home phone. He ended by saying that he had a gallon of liquor and was going to drink it all, right then."----Has your father let you know that he *wants* to be contacted, by phone or mail? It doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted.<
Hmmm, that's interesting. I agree it doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted. On the other hand that's what the abusive voice mail was about, the fact that I had not called.
Hmmm, that's interesting. I agree it doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted. On the other hand that's what the abusive voice mail was about, the fact that I had not called.
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>
glad you decided to post again. I'm praying for your son and your Dad every day, and for you and your husband.<
Thanks Mike, I do appreciate the prayers. And yes, as things work out there's an al-anon group that meets at the hospital.
glad you decided to post again. I'm praying for your son and your Dad every day, and for you and your husband.<
Thanks Mike, I do appreciate the prayers. And yes, as things work out there's an al-anon group that meets at the hospital.
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But, even still, that's not why I set a boundary. I do that for me! To keep me safe from harms way.
I've been practicing this with an elderly relative that I'm the caregiver for. I tell her I will stay and help her as long as she treats me respectfully (mostly not yelling). When she forgets or gets so frustrated she can't help it and yells, I firmly tell her I must leave now and walk out the door. No matter what.
To me, it seems cruel and like it plays into their little dramatic scenes to exchange angry words or to leave without explanation. I've done this enough with her now not to worry. I know she understands why I left. So far it hasn't really changed her behavior, she still screeches like a banshee a couple of times a week, but it's enabled me to take care of myself without feeling guilty that I've hurt her unnecessarily.
I've been practicing this with an elderly relative that I'm the caregiver for. I tell her I will stay and help her as long as she treats me respectfully (mostly not yelling). When she forgets or gets so frustrated she can't help it and yells, I firmly tell her I must leave now and walk out the door. No matter what.
To me, it seems cruel and like it plays into their little dramatic scenes to exchange angry words or to leave without explanation. I've done this enough with her now not to worry. I know she understands why I left. So far it hasn't really changed her behavior, she still screeches like a banshee a couple of times a week, but it's enabled me to take care of myself without feeling guilty that I've hurt her unnecessarily.
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
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">"Two days later my Dad left the most hateful, profanity laden message you could ever imagine on our home phone. He ended by saying that he had a gallon of liquor and was going to drink it all, right then."----Has your father let you know that he *wants* to be contacted, by phone or mail? It doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted.<
Hmmm, that's interesting. I agree it doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted. On the other hand that's what the abusive voice mail was about, the fact that I had not called.
The point is that it was an "abusive" voice mail.
Do you have a problem with dealing with this abuse? Because, if you don't have a problem with this abuse, I don't understand the thread. Or is it that you feel that you can "manage" the abuse? I'm just saying...These are questions I asked myself when I was evaluating my toxic relationships.
Sometimes us acoa's find things "normal" when we shouldn't.
Good Luck with those boundaries.
Hmmm, that's interesting. I agree it doesn't sound like he wants to be contacted. On the other hand that's what the abusive voice mail was about, the fact that I had not called.
The point is that it was an "abusive" voice mail.
Do you have a problem with dealing with this abuse? Because, if you don't have a problem with this abuse, I don't understand the thread. Or is it that you feel that you can "manage" the abuse? I'm just saying...These are questions I asked myself when I was evaluating my toxic relationships.
Sometimes us acoa's find things "normal" when we shouldn't.
Good Luck with those boundaries.
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I am praying for your son.
I just know, that today, I cannot expect my recovered alcoholic mom, to respond or care in a healthy way, if something were to happen to my son.
I just know, that today, I cannot expect my recovered alcoholic mom, to respond or care in a healthy way, if something were to happen to my son.
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ease, I am sorry you have to live like this with your father, and have to worry about your son too.
It sounds like you handled yourself very well with your father. Alcohol brings out the very worst in people. I believe they hate themselves for it too, and take it out on family.
I will pray for your son, and for you to have peace through it all.
It sounds like you handled yourself very well with your father. Alcohol brings out the very worst in people. I believe they hate themselves for it too, and take it out on family.
I will pray for your son, and for you to have peace through it all.
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>Do you have a problem with dealing with this abuse? Because, if you don't have a problem with this abuse, I don't understand the thread.<
What I have a problem with is setting boundaries and knowing whether I'm manipulating others or protecting myself. Hence the question at the end of my post.
BTW, you posted earlier that there was a requirement that my father honor my boundaries. That's not the way I understand it. The way I see it, I need to be very clear especially to myself what my boundaries are and what I will to insure they are not crossed. But I'm still learning and I could be wrong about how this works.
What I have a problem with is setting boundaries and knowing whether I'm manipulating others or protecting myself. Hence the question at the end of my post.
BTW, you posted earlier that there was a requirement that my father honor my boundaries. That's not the way I understand it. The way I see it, I need to be very clear especially to myself what my boundaries are and what I will to insure they are not crossed. But I'm still learning and I could be wrong about how this works.
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Well......it is only a requirement if he wants to see you, which I assume he does.
No expert on boundaries here (just my own) but I feel you're doing pretty darned well. How do you feel in your heart about enforcing the boundary no abuse=no contact? That truly is a hard one, but given his age you may have to face this sooner than later.
Hugs,
GL
No expert on boundaries here (just my own) but I feel you're doing pretty darned well. How do you feel in your heart about enforcing the boundary no abuse=no contact? That truly is a hard one, but given his age you may have to face this sooner than later.
Hugs,
GL
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Welcome Ease 
I think the letter was great! I have done this with my mother but never gave it to her-However I have placed boundaries in to place and life has been a bit better-she knows now that I will no longer engage in her drama-but sometimes she catches me on days that I'm a little down in the duppers-and it is then that I can feel her trying to cross the boundaries and then BAM I hold too them the best that I can-it works!
It is sad that we have to do this with our parents but it makes for a much more healthy life for ourselves...
Prayers for your son and you!
I think the letter was great! I have done this with my mother but never gave it to her-However I have placed boundaries in to place and life has been a bit better-she knows now that I will no longer engage in her drama-but sometimes she catches me on days that I'm a little down in the duppers-and it is then that I can feel her trying to cross the boundaries and then BAM I hold too them the best that I can-it works!
It is sad that we have to do this with our parents but it makes for a much more healthy life for ourselves...
Prayers for your son and you!
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: "Further up and further in!"---C.S. Lewis
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Easeful,
My experience and strength: I adopted and still learn, a great deal from the people in my al-anon group, who are from the "tough-love", oldschool. LOL
I just want to say, I am admire you! You invited us into your process:
"I'm staying with the nuns at a retreat house in the city where my son was hospitalized. The sister's think my letter was me trying to control my Dad's behavior. I think it was me drawing long overdue boundaries. Thoughts?
You let us share our take on it..
You have shown by reading/comparing/contrasting/processing our take on it, that you are confident and know what is best for you and your family. That *impresses* me. You have shown us your strength. I wish you all the best..
"BTW, you posted earlier that there was a requirement that my father honor my boundaries. That's not the way I understand it. The way I see it, I need to be very clear especially to myself what my boundaries are and what I will to insure they are not crossed. "
I agree..you need to identify your boundaries..and you need to identify *what you are willing to do* when they are crossed again.
My hope for myself, is that I can grow to the point where, I care more about *my needs*, than the "feelings" of those who try to abuse me/are toxic or dysfunctional.
Keep Coming Back..Thank you for sharing such an important process with us.
My experience and strength: I adopted and still learn, a great deal from the people in my al-anon group, who are from the "tough-love", oldschool. LOL
I just want to say, I am admire you! You invited us into your process:
"I'm staying with the nuns at a retreat house in the city where my son was hospitalized. The sister's think my letter was me trying to control my Dad's behavior. I think it was me drawing long overdue boundaries. Thoughts?
You let us share our take on it..
You have shown by reading/comparing/contrasting/processing our take on it, that you are confident and know what is best for you and your family. That *impresses* me. You have shown us your strength. I wish you all the best..
"BTW, you posted earlier that there was a requirement that my father honor my boundaries. That's not the way I understand it. The way I see it, I need to be very clear especially to myself what my boundaries are and what I will to insure they are not crossed. "
I agree..you need to identify your boundaries..and you need to identify *what you are willing to do* when they are crossed again.
My hope for myself, is that I can grow to the point where, I care more about *my needs*, than the "feelings" of those who try to abuse me/are toxic or dysfunctional.
Keep Coming Back..Thank you for sharing such an important process with us.
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>My hope for myself, is that I can grow to the point where, I care more about *my needs*, than the "feelings" of those who try to abuse me/are toxic or dysfunctional.
<
Oh, I think I see now where you are coming from and you're right, I'm not all that interested in stopping the abuse. It is after all the only attention I've ever had from my parents. It is what is normal. What I am after is stopping the guilt and manipulation that I feel that comes from protecting myself from the abuse or from calling it what it is. I realize it's not as recovered as you, but it is where I am and what I'm trying to accomplish.
<
Oh, I think I see now where you are coming from and you're right, I'm not all that interested in stopping the abuse. It is after all the only attention I've ever had from my parents. It is what is normal. What I am after is stopping the guilt and manipulation that I feel that comes from protecting myself from the abuse or from calling it what it is. I realize it's not as recovered as you, but it is where I am and what I'm trying to accomplish.
Progress Not Perfection
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: "Further up and further in!"---C.S. Lewis
Posts: 563
Thats what we are here for...This is a support group...we help eachother...you help me...I will never be "recovered"...there is no graduation...glad to see you hanging in there and posting..hope to get to know you better...keep coming back.
Care and support sent your way,
Growing
Care and support sent your way,
Growing
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I think you set perfectly wonderful boundaries. You can't *force* someone to accept your boundaries.
A good boundary has the following components:
1. What *your* boundary is (I will not respond to hateful messages from you)
2. What *you* will do if the person crosses *your* boundary (I will ignore any future messages of that ilk)
You did not tell him what *he* could or could not do, ergo you were not trying to control him. You stated what you found unacceptable and what you would do should he do it again. That's not controlling, that is your boundary and it was made very clearly so there could be no doubt about what you meant.
A controlling or manipulative message sounds more like "You have to do XYZ or I won't love you anymore", where there is punishment if the person doesn't do what you told them to do. Here you have said "this is what I need, and this is what I will do to protect me" The difference between controlling and boundaries is that boundaries have an "I" focus, where controlling/manipulation has a "you" focus.
Ya did good!
A good boundary has the following components:
1. What *your* boundary is (I will not respond to hateful messages from you)
2. What *you* will do if the person crosses *your* boundary (I will ignore any future messages of that ilk)
You did not tell him what *he* could or could not do, ergo you were not trying to control him. You stated what you found unacceptable and what you would do should he do it again. That's not controlling, that is your boundary and it was made very clearly so there could be no doubt about what you meant.
A controlling or manipulative message sounds more like "You have to do XYZ or I won't love you anymore", where there is punishment if the person doesn't do what you told them to do. Here you have said "this is what I need, and this is what I will do to protect me" The difference between controlling and boundaries is that boundaries have an "I" focus, where controlling/manipulation has a "you" focus.
Ya did good!
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