Thoughts on Step 9
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
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Thoughts on Step 9
"Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
Step Eight got us ready for the big event, but here's where we truly go into action.
This is the step where we take our courage in hand, and sally forth to do battle with all our old ghosts. We are armed with the knowledge that the ultimate aim of this step is to wipe our own slate clean. And we're prepared to meet some reactions that may be hostile and unforgiving.
Our objective is to be honest and straightforward enough to walk away from these encounters knowing that we have fulfilled our obligation to set matters as right as possible.
This sets the stage for us to be able to forgive ourselves regardless of whether those to whom we make amends are willing to forgive us. It is in self-forgiveness that we become truly convinced that lasting recover is possible.
Nothing can match the relief we feel when there is nothing hanging over our heads any longer. Joy returns to our lives when we have divested ourselves of guilty secrets to the point where we're no longer fearful that at any moment our misdeeds will be exposed for all the world to see.
It's been said that we're as sick as our secrets. Step Nine helps us walk in our world in comfort and confidence.
Step Eight got us ready for the big event, but here's where we truly go into action.
This is the step where we take our courage in hand, and sally forth to do battle with all our old ghosts. We are armed with the knowledge that the ultimate aim of this step is to wipe our own slate clean. And we're prepared to meet some reactions that may be hostile and unforgiving.
Our objective is to be honest and straightforward enough to walk away from these encounters knowing that we have fulfilled our obligation to set matters as right as possible.
This sets the stage for us to be able to forgive ourselves regardless of whether those to whom we make amends are willing to forgive us. It is in self-forgiveness that we become truly convinced that lasting recover is possible.
Nothing can match the relief we feel when there is nothing hanging over our heads any longer. Joy returns to our lives when we have divested ourselves of guilty secrets to the point where we're no longer fearful that at any moment our misdeeds will be exposed for all the world to see.
It's been said that we're as sick as our secrets. Step Nine helps us walk in our world in comfort and confidence.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 190
"This sets the stage for us to be able to forgive ourselves regardless of whether those to whom we make amends are willing to forgive us. It is in self-forgiveness that we become truly convinced that lasting recover is possible."
Step 9 says the opposite.
"we go in a FORGIVING spirit".
Step 9 says the opposite.
"we go in a FORGIVING spirit".
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Too each his own, Savoy. You have the right to your interpretation and opion. Unfortunately what your opinion often comes across as is a very negative spirited, self rightous one.
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by nandm 
Too each his own, Savoy. You have the right to your interpretation and opion. Unfortunately what your opinion often comes across as is a very negative spirited, self rightous one.
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 746
My Real Purpose
During this step, I am trying to put my life back together, but that isn't the true purpose or spirit of the step, my real purpose is to be of maximum service to God and the people about me.
Step 9 for me backs up my decision that God is everything. If I am blocked from you because of guilt, shame, regret, etc. I am blocked from the sunlight of the spirit. Cleaning away the wreckage of the past opened this channel. It wasn't about me, it was about the many people who needed a chance to heal and say whatever it was they needed to say, it was an opportunity for me to practice shutting up and listening (a skill I truly lacked). It was also an opportunity for me to set aside what I thought I knew about harms caused to others, what the ammend experience should look like, what the other person should say...It confirmed that trusting and relying on infinite God, rather than my finite self was absolutely the easier softer way.
The freedom this step has brought into my life is a gift. It is no wonder the promises we hear at many meetings are found in this part of the process.
They will always materialize if we work for them.
Step 9 for me backs up my decision that God is everything. If I am blocked from you because of guilt, shame, regret, etc. I am blocked from the sunlight of the spirit. Cleaning away the wreckage of the past opened this channel. It wasn't about me, it was about the many people who needed a chance to heal and say whatever it was they needed to say, it was an opportunity for me to practice shutting up and listening (a skill I truly lacked). It was also an opportunity for me to set aside what I thought I knew about harms caused to others, what the ammend experience should look like, what the other person should say...It confirmed that trusting and relying on infinite God, rather than my finite self was absolutely the easier softer way.
The freedom this step has brought into my life is a gift. It is no wonder the promises we hear at many meetings are found in this part of the process.
They will always materialize if we work for them.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by nandm
Too each his own, Savoy. You have the right to your interpretation and opion. Unfortunately what your opinion often comes across as is a very negative spirited, self rightous one.
Are you saying the Big Book is wrong ?
I'm quoting the Big Book verbatum, thats not opinion.
"we go in a forgiving spirit".
What does that mean to you?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: seattle
Posts: 468
Boy, savoy
i wonder about your bullying people.
do you have plans to continue to continue to deride "such" people, as part of this spiritual program your pushing us around with?
Its not the program you're thumping around here sometimes, its people.
the "words" used in the big book are an insufficient defense against alcoholism. I firmly beleive in the "spirit" of those words.
I believie that ammends means something along the lines of permanent change. My alcoholic words and apologise are quite empty, in terms of people i have hurt.
In forgiving we are forgiven.
i wonder about your bullying people.
do you have plans to continue to continue to deride "such" people, as part of this spiritual program your pushing us around with?
Its not the program you're thumping around here sometimes, its people.
the "words" used in the big book are an insufficient defense against alcoholism. I firmly beleive in the "spirit" of those words.
I believie that ammends means something along the lines of permanent change. My alcoholic words and apologise are quite empty, in terms of people i have hurt.
In forgiving we are forgiven.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: seattle
Posts: 468
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
such /sʌtʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhch]
–adjective 1. of the kind, character, degree, extent, etc., of that or those indicated or implied: Such a man is dangerous.
2. of that particular kind or character: The food, such as it was, was plentiful.
3. like or similar: tea, coffee, and such commodities.
4. (used with omission of an indication of comparison) of so extreme a kind; so great, good, bad, etc.: He is such a liar.
5. being as stated or indicated: Such is the case.
6. being the person or thing or the persons or things indicated: If any member be behind in his dues, such member shall be suspended.
7. definite but not specified; such and such: Allow such an amount for food and such an amount for rent.
–adverb 8. so; very; to such a degree: such pleasant people.
9. in such a way or manner.
–pronoun 10. such a person or thing or such persons or things: kings, princes, and such.
11. someone or something indicated or exemplified: He claims to be a friend but is not such.
—Idioms12. as such. as1 (def. 30).
13. such as, a. of the kind specified: A plan such as you propose will never succeed.
b. for example: He considers quiet pastimes, such as reading and chess, a bore.
a·mend (ə-měnd') Pronunciation Key
v. a·mend·ed, a·mend·ing, a·mends
v. tr.
To change for the better; improve: amended the earlier proposal so as to make it more comprehensive.
To remove the faults or errors in; correct. See Synonyms at correct.
To alter (a legislative measure, for example) formally by adding, deleting, or rephrasing.
To enrich (soil), especially by mixing in organic matter or sand.
such /sʌtʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suhch]
–adjective 1. of the kind, character, degree, extent, etc., of that or those indicated or implied: Such a man is dangerous.
2. of that particular kind or character: The food, such as it was, was plentiful.
3. like or similar: tea, coffee, and such commodities.
4. (used with omission of an indication of comparison) of so extreme a kind; so great, good, bad, etc.: He is such a liar.
5. being as stated or indicated: Such is the case.
6. being the person or thing or the persons or things indicated: If any member be behind in his dues, such member shall be suspended.
7. definite but not specified; such and such: Allow such an amount for food and such an amount for rent.
–adverb 8. so; very; to such a degree: such pleasant people.
9. in such a way or manner.
–pronoun 10. such a person or thing or such persons or things: kings, princes, and such.
11. someone or something indicated or exemplified: He claims to be a friend but is not such.
—Idioms12. as such. as1 (def. 30).
13. such as, a. of the kind specified: A plan such as you propose will never succeed.
b. for example: He considers quiet pastimes, such as reading and chess, a bore.
a·mend (ə-měnd') Pronunciation Key
v. a·mend·ed, a·mend·ing, a·mends
v. tr.
To change for the better; improve: amended the earlier proposal so as to make it more comprehensive.
To remove the faults or errors in; correct. See Synonyms at correct.
To alter (a legislative measure, for example) formally by adding, deleting, or rephrasing.
To enrich (soil), especially by mixing in organic matter or sand.
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Originally Posted by savoy
One minute whilst I hose your personal opinion off me first.
Are you saying the Big Book is wrong ?
I'm quoting the Big Book verbatum, thats not opinion.
"we go in a forgiving spirit".
What does that mean to you?
Are you saying the Big Book is wrong ?
I'm quoting the Big Book verbatum, thats not opinion.
"we go in a forgiving spirit".
What does that mean to you?
The BB is open to interpretation, especially in regards to the era it was written and where science and society were at the time. As society progresses, the BB will progressively take a back seat to approaches that are shown to be more viable for treating addiction. In fact, the BB has pretty much been relegated to this status already. Sorry, it's true, and it's not in the BB.:sorry
Life the gift of recovery!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
Originally Posted by savoy
I'm quoting the Big Book verbatum, thats not opinion.
"we go in a forgiving spirit".
What does that mean to you?
"we go in a forgiving spirit".
What does that mean to you?
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Let's please remember to not
take another persons inventory
Discussion is not about what you think
of some one elses experiences
Recovery is a wide road.
Thanks Everyone...
take another persons inventory
Discussion is not about what you think
of some one elses experiences
Recovery is a wide road.
Thanks Everyone...
Last edited by CarolD; 12-16-2007 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Spelling
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cumming, Ga
Posts: 665
This thread is exactly why I am just about done with this website. We have one person in the whole thread that shared their EXPERIENCE. The rest...opinions. Are these opinions based on experience? I have no idea because it wasn't shared. Then you have someone who wants to waste their energy trying to convince someone who is at the 9th step.....the 9th step!!!!that the Big Book has been relegatted to obsolesensce. Amazing. I mean here we are, we are over half way through the 164 pages of EXPERIENCE, and someone wants to tell me it's obsolete. Pure BS and insanity. And in a step study forum for crying out loud. May God Bless you, go in peace.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by mike_mass
Savoy,
The BB is open to interpretation, especially in regards to the era it was written and where science and society were at the time. As society progresses, the BB will progressively take a back seat to approaches that are shown to be more viable for treating addiction. In fact, the BB has pretty much been relegated to this status already. Sorry, it's true, and it's not in the BB.:sorry
The BB is open to interpretation, especially in regards to the era it was written and where science and society were at the time. As society progresses, the BB will progressively take a back seat to approaches that are shown to be more viable for treating addiction. In fact, the BB has pretty much been relegated to this status already. Sorry, it's true, and it's not in the BB.:sorry
I've never found anything that comes close.
I did think that when I first walked into AA and saw the steps poster, I thought it was just an antiquated old poster, I assumed no-one actually does that goody goody stuff surely.
But then I learned some people were actually seriously doing it.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 190
Heres experience ,
I had made a comment to a guy 15 yrs earlier, he didn't care for it and held a grudge, I figgered it was his problem.
But it stuck with me all those yrs.
Robbing the bank would have meant less,
it bothered me out of proportion .
I approached and showed him my Big Book and told him why I was there, "I 'm working this progrm ya see and I uh can't carry this harm around any longer or I'll drink because I'm insane , trying to get right with God by repairing the past".
He shook my hand and said "good for you, keep doing it".
For over 15 yrs we'd pass each other on the street (neighbors) and always avoid eye contact, now he always waves and we stop to chat.
Another amend experience, I went to a womans door and said "I'm following this program" (with my Big Book under my arm) and before I could say anything else she said "its about time".
She listened to my amend and said "I'm a recovered addict".
I'd known her well over 20 yrs but never suspected.
On my amends list was a chinese businessman, I'd visited my freind who worked for him and always stole something.
i cobbled together the money and talked to my freind about it, he didn't think he would get into trouble if I confessed but thought I ought to just put the money in his mailbox and leave it at that.
My sponsor said nope ya gotta go and do it F2F.
So I did, I started by putting the money on the table and said this is your money for the things I stole. He was shocked.
I described the insanity of my alcoholism , I didn't steal because I couldn't afford to pay for it, I always had enough money.
I scared him, he was afraid I was going to kill myself or something.
He kept saying 'its ok, don't worry about it'.
I said 'its not OK, thats why I'm here.'
He kept saying its OK, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
When I got back to the car I did cry because I know I couldn't have done that under my own power.
just 3 people I had screwed over in one way or another but walked away feeling like we are the best of freinds. As we ought to have been.
The one thing I told everyone,
the common denominator, was the truth about me.
Once I made one amend I got on a roll and did several a day, they became easier to make and I even started to get a nervous exitement just before knocking on doors. i realized the fear I felt before starting was just the same old insanity making a last ditch effort to stop me from getting well.
I had made a comment to a guy 15 yrs earlier, he didn't care for it and held a grudge, I figgered it was his problem.
But it stuck with me all those yrs.
Robbing the bank would have meant less,
it bothered me out of proportion .
I approached and showed him my Big Book and told him why I was there, "I 'm working this progrm ya see and I uh can't carry this harm around any longer or I'll drink because I'm insane , trying to get right with God by repairing the past".
He shook my hand and said "good for you, keep doing it".
For over 15 yrs we'd pass each other on the street (neighbors) and always avoid eye contact, now he always waves and we stop to chat.
Another amend experience, I went to a womans door and said "I'm following this program" (with my Big Book under my arm) and before I could say anything else she said "its about time".
She listened to my amend and said "I'm a recovered addict".
I'd known her well over 20 yrs but never suspected.
On my amends list was a chinese businessman, I'd visited my freind who worked for him and always stole something.
i cobbled together the money and talked to my freind about it, he didn't think he would get into trouble if I confessed but thought I ought to just put the money in his mailbox and leave it at that.
My sponsor said nope ya gotta go and do it F2F.
So I did, I started by putting the money on the table and said this is your money for the things I stole. He was shocked.
I described the insanity of my alcoholism , I didn't steal because I couldn't afford to pay for it, I always had enough money.
I scared him, he was afraid I was going to kill myself or something.
He kept saying 'its ok, don't worry about it'.
I said 'its not OK, thats why I'm here.'
He kept saying its OK, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
When I got back to the car I did cry because I know I couldn't have done that under my own power.
just 3 people I had screwed over in one way or another but walked away feeling like we are the best of freinds. As we ought to have been.
The one thing I told everyone,
the common denominator, was the truth about me.
Once I made one amend I got on a roll and did several a day, they became easier to make and I even started to get a nervous exitement just before knocking on doors. i realized the fear I felt before starting was just the same old insanity making a last ditch effort to stop me from getting well.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Amends aren't for me-they are for the person I'm making amends to. I get free the minute I'm willing. What I've found is that I used my whole life on me, getting for me and taking from you. So, my sobriety is not for me, it is for you.
An experience with what I've just said. One of my early awakenings was to the harm I'd done my family. I had been married for ten years to a great woman who stood by me through thick and thin. We have a son who was eight when I got sober.
I don't know about anyone else, but I felt really bad when I got sober. The wreckage of the past was the wreckage of right now. And, as usual, the goal was to feel better. Now, they made a mistake for guys like me when they hung the steps on the wall-they left out the directions in between. I saw it on the wall, and heard it in meetings, so I thought I should go make amends to my soon to be former wife. I was about a month sober at the time.
So I marched over to the house (I wasn't supposed to because there was a no-contact & restraining order), knocked on the door and gave her the same old mumbly sorry-ass crap she'd been hearing for years. Now I realize that I have no right to expect any of these people to talk to me ever again, or believe me, or trust me. Another awakening I've had is the harm I've done to my family-every time I fell down I got back up. I'd be sober a little while, give 'em some false hope, and then dash those hopes again and again and again. So her reply to my sorry stuff was "I know you're sorry. You are a sorry S.O.B. and I've called the cops. Don't come around here again." That was the truth and she had every right to say it. The police came and I spent a day in jail. Ever have to make amends for making amends?
Fast forward about ten months. I had gotten a sponsor and had taken the first eight steps. I had written an inventory, so I was clear on where I had been wrong. I had prepared an eighth step list and prayed for the willingness to look each one of these people in the eye and say that I had been wrong and hurt them and could they please tell me how I can get it right. My sponsor helped formulate a course of action to take in making amends to my now former wife.
First I called to see if she would speak with me and give me some of her time. And then I went there-free. I wasn't going to feel better from a guilty conscience, I was going to set right a wrong and give her the chance to get free. I said that amends aren't for me, they are for you-here is what I mean. I know what I did to you, but I am so insensitive that I can't know how I've actually harmed you. So I was told to ask.
With my ex, I knew what I did-the drunkeness, the verbal & physical abuse, the infidelity, the lies, the broken promises. But when I asked her how I had harmed her, it wasn't that stuff at all. She said "I had to watch the man I fell in love with turn into somebody I couldn't love. We tried to love you but you wouldn't let us." We do terrible psychic harm to people. And we alkies think we have it bad. Try living with one of us.
She talked for an hour about things that she had been carrying for years. I watched her get free. We cried and we actually even laughed! Then I asked what I could do to set it straight, a whole story in itself. She was with a man that seemed to be a good guy, I got to know him. Our son was nine years old at the time and he was good to him. I found myself sitting in the stands with her AND him watching the kid play ball. I sent her Mother's Day cards. Never did that when we were married. I paid my child-support payments on time. I showed up when I said I would. Took them a long time to trust me again. Her boyfriend, now husband helped me fix my car. Eight years ago, they got married and I was at the wedding. The relationship has been healed. We are a family.
Guys like me don't get from restraining orders and "you are a sorry S.O.B. and
don't come around here ever again" to being at the wedding on their own
power.
Jim
An experience with what I've just said. One of my early awakenings was to the harm I'd done my family. I had been married for ten years to a great woman who stood by me through thick and thin. We have a son who was eight when I got sober.
I don't know about anyone else, but I felt really bad when I got sober. The wreckage of the past was the wreckage of right now. And, as usual, the goal was to feel better. Now, they made a mistake for guys like me when they hung the steps on the wall-they left out the directions in between. I saw it on the wall, and heard it in meetings, so I thought I should go make amends to my soon to be former wife. I was about a month sober at the time.
So I marched over to the house (I wasn't supposed to because there was a no-contact & restraining order), knocked on the door and gave her the same old mumbly sorry-ass crap she'd been hearing for years. Now I realize that I have no right to expect any of these people to talk to me ever again, or believe me, or trust me. Another awakening I've had is the harm I've done to my family-every time I fell down I got back up. I'd be sober a little while, give 'em some false hope, and then dash those hopes again and again and again. So her reply to my sorry stuff was "I know you're sorry. You are a sorry S.O.B. and I've called the cops. Don't come around here again." That was the truth and she had every right to say it. The police came and I spent a day in jail. Ever have to make amends for making amends?
Fast forward about ten months. I had gotten a sponsor and had taken the first eight steps. I had written an inventory, so I was clear on where I had been wrong. I had prepared an eighth step list and prayed for the willingness to look each one of these people in the eye and say that I had been wrong and hurt them and could they please tell me how I can get it right. My sponsor helped formulate a course of action to take in making amends to my now former wife.
First I called to see if she would speak with me and give me some of her time. And then I went there-free. I wasn't going to feel better from a guilty conscience, I was going to set right a wrong and give her the chance to get free. I said that amends aren't for me, they are for you-here is what I mean. I know what I did to you, but I am so insensitive that I can't know how I've actually harmed you. So I was told to ask.
With my ex, I knew what I did-the drunkeness, the verbal & physical abuse, the infidelity, the lies, the broken promises. But when I asked her how I had harmed her, it wasn't that stuff at all. She said "I had to watch the man I fell in love with turn into somebody I couldn't love. We tried to love you but you wouldn't let us." We do terrible psychic harm to people. And we alkies think we have it bad. Try living with one of us.
She talked for an hour about things that she had been carrying for years. I watched her get free. We cried and we actually even laughed! Then I asked what I could do to set it straight, a whole story in itself. She was with a man that seemed to be a good guy, I got to know him. Our son was nine years old at the time and he was good to him. I found myself sitting in the stands with her AND him watching the kid play ball. I sent her Mother's Day cards. Never did that when we were married. I paid my child-support payments on time. I showed up when I said I would. Took them a long time to trust me again. Her boyfriend, now husband helped me fix my car. Eight years ago, they got married and I was at the wedding. The relationship has been healed. We are a family.
Guys like me don't get from restraining orders and "you are a sorry S.O.B. and
don't come around here ever again" to being at the wedding on their own
power.
Jim
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 190
Yeh its definately to set the other person free.
Although theres situations where the other person isn't aware of the harm.
I remember thinking " I can't believe I procrastinated all this time, I can't believe it was just this simple".
I feel as though I've had a mind transplant. My memories are all intact but that little weazle that was running my life got cut down to size.
Although theres situations where the other person isn't aware of the harm.
I remember thinking " I can't believe I procrastinated all this time, I can't believe it was just this simple".
I feel as though I've had a mind transplant. My memories are all intact but that little weazle that was running my life got cut down to size.
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