I hate psych. meds

[HuskyPup]

My old Dr. moved away, and the new one decided a few months back I should stop taking Klonopin, which I took for anxiety and TMJ related facial pain. So now it’s been 15 days totally off, and I’ve felt pretty freaked out, on and off. It’s starting to get better, but at first I thought I wasn’t gonna make it…panic, dread, digestive troubles, headaches, nausea, ouch. Not an easy med to stop, by any means. I’m hoping it will keep getting better, but am told it might be a few months. It’s one thing less to be taking into my body, so there is that, I feel more free, even if restless. I was taking about 1 mg. a day, sometimes less. Then I tapered down to .5mg for a few weeks, then the same amount every other day for 2 weeks. I wonder how long until I feel normal, assuming ‘normal’ comes back, or is something I can remember.

These prescription mood pills remind me of the dangers of psych meds, and how, when you stop, or even while you’re on them, it can sure be a living Hell!

It seems like on one hand, either the drugs are SSRIs that make me feel hyper, mixed up and without any way to enjoy sex, like some weird android, or they make me all weirded out like Wellbutrin, or do very little, or are habit forming/work less over time like Clonzapam. Have not found anything that works well, and am tired of trying, I’m convinced such a med has not been invented.

Glad to be rid of them, the pharma business can takes their Prozac and all that, and shove it where the sun don’t shine.

Maybe it helps some people, but I’m yet to be impressed.


H. Pup

[HuskyPup]

Still feeling weird after 16 days. I wonder when you return to 'normal' from this stuff. Have these funny twitchy muscles, odd tingling, numbness...racing heart, and very anxious.

Damn those pills!!!!

[StayinAlive]

Did you do a gradual taper?

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2411875 (Doctor Prescribed Or Abuse Of Meds?)

[HuskyPup]

Originally Posted by StayinAlive

Did you do a gradual taper?

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2411875 (Doctor Prescribed Or Abuse Of Meds?)

Not nearly that gradual.

Took 1 mg/day for 8 months, 1/2 mg/day for two weeks, 1/2 mg. every other day for two weeks, now on day 16 of 0 mg/day, and feeling very crazy/fearful/queasy, still. I don't think the new dr. knows about this gradual taper idea, or cares.

[StayinAlive]

Well hang in there, at least you did taper some. If it persists or gets worse ask doc about the possibility to continue taper. 1/4 etc.

Tapering from efexor was equally tedious and once finished taper i had withdraw symptoms for a month.

Dislcaimer: dont listen to me i know nothing.

[lifeafter]

You can do a google search and there are books out there to taper correctly. And there are other websites that deal with just this subject. Of course, this is NOT medical advice. In my experience tapering is VERY important.

Just my 2 cents.

God Bless

[HuskyPup]

Thanks for all the input. Now it's been about 25 days totally off Klonopin, and starting to feel more normal; the main problem is the symptoms they were perscribed for...facial pain/stiffness/jaw clenching...are a lot worse, anxiety has evened out a hair.

I think the worse drug I was even on was Wellbutrin, by a long shot.

In my mind, all of these medications have a ton of problems; at least the benzos helped for a while, then made me feel bad, the others just made me feel bad, both during and after.

Nonetheless, I plan to avoid them all; I'm not gonna be a slave to big business and the pharma industry; mankind lived for centuries without all these pills, I will find my own way.

[nandm]

Just a different point of view here. Medications have saved my life literally. Without my psych meds I would have killed myself years ago. That is even in sobriety. I work the program of AA and apply the steps and principles in my life daily sometimes hourly. But there is something chemically messed up in my brain. I have considered dropping all of my meds but when I have attempted that I have always wound up in the same place, suicidal and insane all the while knowing I am insane. It is a scary place to be when you know your thinking is insane but can not do anything to change it, your head just keeps going. So for me life is a balance of medications, therapy, and AA. Although I do try to keep the medications to the bare minimum as I do not feel that more is better with them. I agree that the side effects of medications can make things worse, that is why I partner with my doctor and when med changes occur it is because I communicate with my doctor and we weigh the pro's and con's to make a decision that is what I feel I can live with. Not every doctor I have had has been willing to do that. For anyone who has a doctor that keeps pushing more and more meds without you feeling like you have a say in things please find another doctor. There are also naturalpaths that have helped people who do not want to utilize conventional medications. So there are many alternatives to just completely stopping all medications and living with an out of control disease.

[Brentos]

Would be nice if someone would PM me the reason why my post was deleted as I see the original poster agrees with me, yet the last poster here, with a different view, didn't have their post deleted. Not trying to cause trouble I'm just curious. Thank you.

[HuskyPup]

Originally Posted by Brentos

Would be nice if someone would PM me the reason why my post was deleted as I see the original poster agrees with me, yet the last poster here, with a different view, didn't have their post deleted. Not trying to cause trouble I'm just curious. Thank you.

I'm curious as well as to why your post is gone.

While I agree that meds can help some people and be of great value, I don't think they're for everyone. Empirical evidence points to the fact that there are many people who do not respond well to medications, or are made worse, even as others are helped.

It seems that these days, the 'it's all chemical' point of view has finally permeated its way into being accepted as some kind of unquestionable Holy Grail, notwithstanding all the millions of dollars the pharma industries have spent on TV commercials since it became legal to do so.

I'd like to see a broader discussion of the plusses and minues, and a more critical look at matters; I;'m not sure why so many put down the point of view that meds do not help some people, and might make them feel worse. I also don't see alcohol abuse, depression or anxiety as 'diseases', but rather patterns or pathologies...and as such, they have a great deal of variety.

H. Pup

[Morning Glory]

I'm sorry for the lack of communication. It was late and I was very tired. The way the posts were written would be considered medical advice.

[HuskyPup]

Ah, I see...can't recall the whole post. I don't mean to suggest anyone should stop/not take meds...only to share that they have not worked well for me, over the course of many meds, many doctors, and many years...and that I am worn out by the notion of 'finding' the 'right med'...it's like chasing some pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, while going broke in the process.

If it boils down to a 'chemical imbalnace', why can't they measure the chemicals somehow, and tell me which ones are out of balance and need adjusting? It all seems like such a primitive crap shoot, with the stage the science is now.

[Morning Glory]

Sharing your own experience is fine without suggesting that others stop taking medication.

Every person is so different and reacts to medication differently. It is impossible to give any advice based on our own experience.

I had a horrible experience with Welbutrin and just saw a client of mine have a horrible experience with Welbutrin. I know it helps many people here though. I would never make a blanket statement that others should never take Welbutrin. I might suggest they have someone monitor them if they are taking it for the first time.

We have to be careful here because we don't want someone to pass through and decide to stop taking their medication after reading a post here. It can be very serious for some.

[Live]

I think everyone hates the trial and error guinea pig process!
But like NandM, I would be suicidally depressed if I stopped taking my meds, even if I hate some of the side effects. I would probably be dead by now.
Many times in the past I have decided that I was cured and I had my life together and every single time I have stopped the meds, I have fallen into a progressively WORSE depression.
Finally after so many years, I am depression free.
I will be taking psych meds for the rest of my life, because I know I have another major depression in me, I don't know if I have another recovery.
If you are able to live a decent quality life without them, awesome! I wish it were true for me, I would rather spend my money on other things and not have my life depend on those pills. It took me a long time to accept that.
And yes, I have also incorporated other natural means and practices to aid my well being.
We don't encourage others to stop their meds without their Dr's advice because the results for some can be disastrous.
(I know, because, yep, I have done it more than once. LOL)
If I don't treat the anxiety and PTSD.....I will isolate and not leave the house.
LOL....I always tend to think that the folks who are much troubled by the sexual side effects are in remission from depression, because when deeply depressed one doesn't care about sex at all.

[HuskyPup]

Originally Posted by liveweyerd

LOL....I always tend to think that the folks who are much troubled by the sexual side effects are in remission from depression, because when deeply depressed one doesn't care about sex at all.

There is some reassurance in that at least I have never been deeply despressed! Anxious, certainly, moody, yes...but desire has never desserted me

[Brentos]

Ah, alright, sorry about that then. You're absolutely right, guess I'll leave that opinion to myself (slightly), however people should really know more about them. Effexor reacted with me in such a horrible way that it's hard to put into words. "Blank, confused chaos" is all I can muster up without getting to emotional and ranting and raving.

And about the sexual side affects thing, when you're 17 and can't get things...moving, it's really painful! You're right though liveweyard, lol, spot on.

Meh, I'll keep with the discussion now I suppose.

Originally Posted by HuskyPup

If it boils down to a 'chemical imbalnace', why can't they measure the chemicals somehow, and tell me which ones are out of balance and need adjusting? It all seems like such a primitive crap shoot, with the stage the science is now.

If you look into the actual manufacturers notes about each drug they explicitly state that that's how they THINK they might PERHAPS change the brain and in turn MAYBE treat whatever illness it is you're taking them for.

Here's a good vid: YouTube - Truth About Antidepressants & Chemical Imbalance, Psychology

Again I must stress though that if they work, they work. I've seen people GLOWING after changing their meds, getting on new ones, and getting better. The change was marvelous so to each their own.

[transformyself]

I'm thrilled to find this post, as I suffer from PTSD and treat it with Bikram Yoga. I've been going 3-4 times a week and after 90 minutes of yoga in a 105 degree room, it's awfully hard to have a ptsd attack.

Problem is, I still need therapy to deal with triggers when they happen. I'm looking for some now.

I take clonopin only when I"m escalating. it does work, caps off the anxiety mostly. They wanted me to take it all the time, I refused because of all the reasons described here and don't want to take that crap all the time. How do you know when you're no longer anxious if you're living on it?

Plus, I believe 100% in my heart that we can heal ourselves. I don't want to live on drugs. I know plenty of folks who say they have saved their lives and I'm grateful they found their path, but mine is not pharmacuetical drugs.

That said, (sorry for the rant) has anyone found helpful ways of dealing with ptsd triggers? For me it involves staying the hell away from my AH, but I also need tools to deal.

Thanks!

[lifeafter]

I found this very interesting form Dr. Candace Pert. She is one of the two discoverers of the serotonin binding process that made these drugs possible.

quote from Dr. Candace Pert:

“I am alarmed at the monster that Johns Hopkins neuroscientist Solomon Snyder and I created when we discovered the simple binding assay for drug receptors 25 years ago. Prozac and other antidepressant serotonin-receptor-active compounds may also cause cardiovascular problems in some susceptible people after long-term use, which has become common practice despite the lack of safety studies."

“The public is being misinformed about the precision of these selective serotonin-uptake inhibitors when the medical profession oversimplifies their action in the brain and ignores the body as if it exists merely to carry the head around! In short, these molecules of emotion regulate every aspect of our physiology. A new paradigm has evolved, with implications that life-style changes such as diet and exercise can offer profound, safe and natural mood elevation.”

[lifeafter]

By atracyphd on August 3, 2009

"The end of February 2008 the truth came out about the initial studies done on these new SSRI antidepressants. These studies had never before been made public or even submitted to the FDA for their review. Yet these studies showed that the drugs were of no more benefit than a placebo! What the FDA does is judge the “Risk to Benefit” ratio for all drugs. With this new information, our question to them now is: “If this group of drugs are of no more benefit than a sugar pill and yet now have an FDA imposed Black Box Warning for increased risk of suicide – the next closest thing to banning a drug and they have warnings of suicide, hostility or psychosis with any abrupt change in dose, where is the Risk to Benefit ratio other than down the toilet? Why are these drugs still on the market with little to no benefit and so great a risk?"

Food for thought....

[nandm]

Interesting that one could consider a medication that alters the chemicals in the brain comparable to a placebo. There are many studies out there and studies can be manipulated to achieve the results one wants or to meet ones agenda. It is only when a study can be repeated with interchanging variables and done by independent people with no agenda that I trust the study. I am not saying that the research study that is posted here is bunk but IMHO I do not trust it. It is up to each individual person to believe what they choose. I base my opinions on my personal experience which is these medications are not sugar pills. They do change the brain chemicals and either work for the person or don't depending upon each persons chemical makeup. There are meds that have worked for me and meds that have not. I personally do not want to be responsible for someone elses suicide because I encouraged them to stop their meds by stating that there meds were nothing more than sugar pills. I have had several people in my life commit suicide due to well meaning but misguided people who told them similiar things as well as they were not sober as long as they used these medications. Once someone is dead it is a bit too late to take back what was said.

[lifeafter]

There are many studies out there and studies can be manipulated to achieve the results one wants or to meet ones agenda.

It is up to each individual person to believe what they choose.

I couldn't agree more!

I would NEVER encourage anyone to stop taking any type of medication. But, I do encourage for people to research everything they can about them. They can come to their own conclusions and decisions.

[lifeafter]

nandm, I have time now to properly reply to your post. I did a quick reply because I wanted to make it clear ASAP that I would never suggest for anyone to discontinue any type of medication, especially psychotropic ones.

Interesting that one could consider a medication that alters the chemicals in the brain comparable to a placebo.

From my understanding almost all serious studies use a placebo, its a form of control. Have you ever heard of "the placebo effect"? When a group of people is given a pill (placebo), lets say to reduce a headache, a certain percentage of them will show improvement. Even though the placebo (a sugar pill) has no properties to reduce the headache, it still helps some because the mind thinks it's taking a pill to help the headache.

There are many studies out there and studies can be manipulated to achieve the results one wants or to meet ones agenda.

I couldn't agree more! And a big motivator to push one's agenda is multi-million dollar revenues. From my understanding however, these are the initial studies from the manufacturers themselves. These are not studies from an outside source, but from the drug companies themselves that where acquired through the freedom of information act.

I am not saying that the research study that is posted here is bunk but IMHO I do not trust it.

Again, these are initial studies never submitted to the FDA. Example: In my opinion a drug company can conduct 20 clinical trials for their product. If 2 of them show a favorable efficiency compared to a placebo, but the other 18 do not, then they can submit the 2 favorable trials to the FDA for review and not the other 18. Doesn't seem to be fair....but, I guess there is major money at stake.

I base my opinions on my personal experience which is these medications are not sugar pills.

I don't believe anyone ever said they are sugar pills.

It is up to each individual person to believe what they choose.

I couldn't agree more! Each individual has a right to look at ALL the information and make up their own mind.

They do change the brain chemicals and either work for the person or don't depending upon each persons chemical makeup.

I agree, they do change brain chemicals. There are many substances that change brain chemicals.

I personally do not want to be responsible for someone elses suicide because I encouraged them to stop their meds by stating that there meds were nothing more than sugar pills.

Suicide is sad and tragic, it is very real on both sides of issue. Example: black box warning. Not sure what you're saying. Should the results of studies not be disclosed?

...well meaning but misguided people...

If these studies and the many books are stating something that is false, how come they are not being sued? I would think that the manufacturers of these products would file a lawsuit if it wasn't true. I know I would pursue legal action if someone is making false claims about my product.

Once someone is dead it is a bit too late to take back what was said.

Absolutely! In my opinion if everyone treated others with love, compassion, kindness and respect there would be no regrets for their past actions and words.

Again, I would never encourage anyone to discontinue their medication. I am just a average person who's life was devastated by these drugs directly due to lack of all the information about them. I encourage everyone who is taking these drugs or considering to take these drugs to research it extensively and weigh the benefit to risk ratio very carefully.

[nandm]

I refuse to bite on your attempt to shred my post. To each his own opinion.

[lifeafter]

nandm, I am sorry that you feel I attempted to shred your post. This, of course, was not my intention. I just tried to respond to the statements that you posted with openness and honesty.

[johnstacey45]

I have anxiety, but I do not intend on taking medication to alleviate it. In my opinion, pills are just another product of the "spirit of the times"! I also drink to take care of anxious feelings, and to allow myself to relax and feel perfectly well for the time being. However, the long time effects won't be so nice. Thats why I'm considering joing AA or some other type of detox program. I just do not want my family to get wind of it.