Anyone have any thoughts on Stanton Peele's Approach?

[leviathon]

Originally Posted by Music

Call me narrow-minded, brainwashed, stubborn....whatever. The people who wrote the AA Big Book were drunks just like me, otherwise how would they have known so much about me before I came to AA. I don't know that Peele ever took a drink in his life and don't care. If a person's not a full blown drunk, I'll be polite and listen, but what they say has little credibility with me.

So Music, you are also aware that one of the cofounders was also a doctor correct? Do you think that his medical knowledge didn't influence his thoughts and approach to AA? Why would you disregard all the information available from others who have researched alcoholism merely because they were not alcoholics? Are the inventions of anta-abuse and naltrexone worthless because these scientists were not full blown alcoholics? Should alcoholics not seek out these helpful medications to obtain initial sobriety so that they are then able to enter treatment, AA or otherwise?

If I take your view literally, I should not subscribe to these medications as they were not invented by alcoholics who could truly understand the issues an alcoholic faces. Yet, their understanding of science and human physiological responses have resulted in medications that have helped me greatly in my struggle to find sobriety. I am glad that these non alcoholics did the research and provided these very helpful medications. I likely would have died without them.

I, of course, am taking your comments to the extreme as you did indicate you regard the information from non alcoholics with skepticism, not outright rejecting them. I can appreciate that your experiences have led you to rely on what you have found works for those that have helped you to recovery. Point taken.

While I do not subscribe to AA, I do rely on some of the information AA provides as it makes a lot of sense. I supplement that, AA was my starting point, with any and all relevant information on addiction, emotional problems, etc., as they also help me as I construct a system of recovery that works for me! Much of what I rely on to help me maintain sobriety I learned from people that have never had addictions or abuse problems. I try it, if it works, great, if it doesn't, then much like Thomas Edison, I have found one thing that doesn't work and narrowed my search for what does work by one.

For instance, I find that Stanton's work is really fascinating and it inspires me to continue to work towards maintaining lasting sobriety. IF I accepted the view that only what alcoholics have to say can ensure my recovery, I would then apparently not be able to rely on it because he was never an addict or abuser of alcohol. Well, despite his lack of addiction, his throughts and views help me understand myself and to deal with my own alcohol abuse. Personally, I will take what ever help is available and is helpful. If it comes from AA, RR, CBRT, scientists, counsellors, etc., I do not care, as long as it helps.

If others wish to subscribe to only one view, that is fine too. For me one view was not enough. I encourage all to think outside the box (AA or other treatment programs being the "box") and to find what helps them to change and grow and to find lasting sobriety and happiness. In my view there is not one path to alcohol or drug dependence, there is also, IMO, not one path or approach to obtaining and maintaining sobriety.

For instance, contrary to popular wisdom, I know several former "alcoholics" that have completely recovered and are actually able to have a drink or two on occasion without relapse or further problems. They learned what was driving their dependence and dealt with it. Can we all do that, possibly not, then again maybe so. The point is that for every rule there is an exception, just look at science, and by understanding the exceptions we gain further insight. To truly understand, IMO, we have to question what is put before us and to find our own answers. Information that is compiled is only one part of the recovery process (understanding process), you must also be able to apply the knowledge.


Peace, Levi

[leviathon]

An Excerpt from Peele that I found most informative...

The Experience of Addiction
Addiction is not caused by a drug or its chemical properties. Addiction has to do with the effect a drug produces for a given person in given circumstances-a welcomed effect which relieves anxiety and which (paradoxically) decreases capability so that those things in life which cause anxiety grow more severe. What we are addicted to is the experience the drug creates for us.

The most powerful addictive drugs in our society are, along with the narcotics, the barbiturates and alcohol. What these drugs have in common is not their chemical structures, which are widely diverse, but their common pharmacological property of depressing the action of the nervous system. In this way, they act to lessen a person's feeling of pain and sense of the difficulties in life at the same time they cause the person to be less able to deal with such difficulties. Thus begins the cycle of addiction. For as the person retreats to the drug to avoid coping, those things with which s/he must cope become less manageable and more frightening to contemplate. So potential addicts turn increasingly to the drug to gain the rewards which they are no longer capable of gaining from life, until, at some point, we may say that the main rewards are coming from the drug itself.

At this arbitrary point, people can be said to be addicted. They view those other aspects of their life with which they have ceased to deal seriously and from which they no longer gain satisfaction only in terms of how they relate to their addiction. People, jobs, other activities are all either impediments to or vehicles for obtaining the one thing they want to pursue-intoxication and loss of self-consciousness at the hands of the chosen addictive substance.

An important part of surrender to the drug is the feeling that they are not strong enough to resist it-not worthy to resist it. In some sense, they see addiction as the proper state of affairs. This negative self-image and the low self-esteem on which it is based are key points in the cyclical descent into an addiction. For the addict is someone who does not feel good about self, who dislikes the person s/he is. Addiction is predicated on a fear of the world, which is mainly an anxiety about one's own ability to cope with it. Whatever his or her actual ability, the addict believes s/he is incompetent in some significant way or area of life.

An addict welcomes the opportunity to resolve doubt and unease by being protected by some larger force, some greater power. A powerful drug, of course, fits this bill. But there are many other external structures and mechanisms to which a person can sacrifice control.

Hmmm, I can see myself in this description... also part of my problem with accepting a "higher power" to remove it all... abdicating my responsibility for myself led to my situation, I do not accept that abdicating my responsibility again by "turning it over to a higher power" can resolve it... Just my view.

Peace, Levi

[Five]

Peele has been very useful to me on many levels - in his book, he sumerises the patterns of addiction, how the fluctuate, change, and either carry on or go into remission. Remission is the word I had been searching for. I could not carry on doing what I was doing to myself - and so I had to stop. I see drinking now with revulsion, it bought me to my knees (sound familier?).

I never used to like him, but my head was still riddled with biasis that said 'only an alcoholic understands an alcoholic' - when, infact, human behaviour is just that: human behaviour - you can find suffering, worry, fear, isolation, irratic behaviour, in the entire human spectrum. The idea of a mystical, underlying, disease redefines normal human behaviour into someone 'otherly' that only other alkies understand. Not true. Yes he is making money, yes he hasnt had first hand experience of addiction, but he also basis his arguments in strong logic, evidence, and draws on the knowledge of pschology.

Good stuff.

[debsjsu]

Levi I really liked what you said I understood it and it made perfect sence to me. It also reminded me of what the Big Book says about Alcohol and why people drink... pg. xxvi.. The Doctors Opinion... Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks--drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is little hope of his recovery."
Don't let the word "Psychic" scare you off or confuse you all it means is a change in your thinking... This book was written in 1935.. So some of the wording is a little different than what we use today... But my point is that I think that it is saying the same thing that Levi was explaining above. It is not really the substance.. It is how the substance makes us "Feel" and what it "does" for us. Bearing in mind that there are some "physical addictions" that create withdrawal symptoms that need to be treated by a Dr. but these do not explain people who relapse long after physical withdrawal is gone... I think what Levi is talking about and what is explained in the Doctors Opinion does answer that question.... On another note.. Yes Levi I do know people who called themselves alcoholic and now are able to drink socially. My Father who I have a great respect for is one of them.. When I was a child he was a very heavy drinker, he went to jail many times, there was a lot of domestic violence in our home, I could go on and on, I will spare you. He went to AA for a short time, I was a child then and I don't know why he didn't continue he will not talk about his drinking to anyone. It is like he pretends it never happened.. He is able today to go to dinner and have a drink (just one) He seems very content and happy in his life today. I haven't seen him drunk since I was 10 yrs old and I am 45 yrs. old now. He is very active in his church... So Yes there are people who Can an Do become social drinkers after alcoholism.... I will not be one of them my drinking history proves that to me already..... I do believe that there are no absolutes in this world, there are always exceptions to the rule. If I close my mind to anything I am creating ignorance in my own head........ Love to all Debs.... I am a member of AA..... But I am open to all methods of recovery and all kinds of people... I love you all....

[debsjsu]

O sorry I forgot to answer the Higher power thing..... When we turn things over to a Higher Power we are not abdicating our responsibility... If you have researched and Im sure that you have, then you must know that it says that Our Higher Power does for us what WE CANNOT DO FOR OURSELVES... We are still responsible for doing our part.... Having a Higher Power dosn't mean that we go sit on the couch and let our HP do all the work!!! All it means is that for example if I am Dying for water and I can't find any no matter how hard I look and I have searched everywhere. I can ask my HP for help. Help me find water. I truly believe if I continue to look I will find water b/c water is needed to keep me alive.. I will still need to get a glass and put the water in it and then drink it... I can't just ask for water and go sit on the couch and wait for the HP to bring it to me ... That ain't going to happen... And if I ask for a mercedes I probably ain't gonna get that either.... It's not like you have a gennie at your finger tips.... It is a life sustaining power that helps you do the things that you cannot do alone.. Not the things you can do.... My HP is not my slave...... Love to you Debs

[debsjsu]

Levi I really hate for this thread to end b/c I really think You make a very important and valid point in your post that a lot of people don't understand. I know that I didn't realize when I got to the point of wanting to get sober and found that I could not, there is more to this than just mere alcohol. The human behavior is realitive.. what I mean by that is that in my own experience I had been abused as a child and I had "built in responses" that I was not aware of. That had developed as a result of my childhood abuse. These "built in responses" were not productive for a life of sobriety. They were also not conducive for healthy relationships with other people, like my husband, children or even friends. I did not understand that I had behaviors and thinking patterns that were defence mechanisms developed in response to abuse that I suffered as a child. And that these behaviors and thinking patterns were keeping me on a path of self destruction, I was no longer that abused child and no longer needed them, but didn't know how to let them go. Especially since I didn't even know I had them in the first place! When I did become aware that I needed to change, I had no Idea how to do that... Anyway, maybe this makes sence to somebody??? This was my delima when I got to recovery.... It just wasn't as simple as getting into a program and getting sober..... I had some things that Psycologically I had to work on. This is where I think your thread is so very important.... I don't think I am the only person who has shown up at AA with "baggage" and a lot of people don't realize that psychology is very helpful in dealing with these issues, counseling with a therapist is sometimes absolutely necessary to work through the kind of issues I had. Some people will say, and I have heard it said, "If you will just work the AA steps RIGHT you DON'T need anything else" DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE NARROW MINDED PEOPLE.... If you have issues in your past that cause you any kind of problems, discomfort, depression, or if you feel like you need to see a therapist or counselor by all means please listen to yourself and GO SEE ONE...... NOBODY has a right to tell you what to do or not to do ever.......... If anyone ever tries to tell you what to do or not to do that person is NOT working the AA program, b/c that is NOT how it works....... I do not think I would have ever been sane enough to have been able to "hear" what was being said if I had not had psycological help.... Thanks Levi for opening this door...... Love to all Debs

[leviathon]

DebJ, totally relate to your last post. I am in similar situation in that I grew up in a violently abusive alcoholic home and that has had a lasting impact on my life, how I view life, trust, family and relationships. That is all complicated by the fact that I left home at 14 and disengaged from my family for twenty or so years and then shortly after I begand dealing with them again, my father goes and shoots himself dead.

In short, the answer for me has never been as easy as develop a program and get sober. My life is VERY complicated. I am told that I have a social adjustment disorder (i.e. I don't trust readily or easily) and I fear intimacy. Geeeeee, duh, I was violently beaten, sexually abused by a baby sitter (female thankfully), used drugs to "cope" with my pain and then complicated everything by going on to become a lawyer... gee now lets try to fit in with all these normal people that have had relatively normal lives and have travelled and have mommy and daddy loving them, etc. geeee if only I'd get a program shazam life would be resolved... NOT, not even close.

Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic, but there is so much more to what I am dealing with a program is only one small part of the much larger picture. I really do wish it was all as simple as getting a sponsor and a program and shazam life is better... that has helped (the program part, don't do AA so don't have a sponsor), but I have a lot of other issues that require understanding myself, a psychologist, trauma counselling, etc. There is no miracle in finding a program, that just helped me realize I needed to do something about the drinking, I then had to look at what was causing the drinking and begin to bring that out into the light of day and to work through it.

Peace, Levi.

[paulmh]

Levi said:

I really do wish it was all as simple as getting a sponsor and a program and shazam life is better...

Curiously enough, it is that simple. And equally, I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

[CarolD]

Stanton Peele is the topic of this thread.
Please share on topic.

[leviathon]

Paulmh, clearly for you it was that simple, for me it was not. I find Stanton Peele's approach a lot more helpful b/c it helps me get to the root of my problem. A sponsor and a program did NOT work for me. In future, I would greatly appreciate if you state that in your opinion that is all that is necessary and accept that for others of us, much more is required.

A more comprehensive approach, such as advocated by Mr. Peele, really has provided a great deal of insight and has helped me to grasp my problems and to identify my issues so that I could get to the bottom of them. Without getting to the bottom of my issues, all the sponsors and all the programs in the world did not have a hope of working b/c my problem was not just with alcohol, it was much deeper rooted than that.

Peace, Levi

[paulmh]

In the spirit of my step 10 - "continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong promptly admitted it" - sorry if I went off topic.

[Five]

I think Stanton Peele sees the whole picture of addiction. Thats what I get from his writing - he covers a kind of spectrum and I can see myself in it, waving back at me

[leviathon]

The Surprising Truth About Addiction

Stanton Peele, North Arlington , NJ



Change is natural. You no doubt act very differently in many areas of your life now compared with how you did when you were a teenager. Likewise, over time you will probably overcome or ameliorate certain behaviors: a short temper, crippling insecurity.

For some reason, we exempt addiction from our beliefs about change. In both popular and scientific models, addiction is seen as locking you into an inescapable pattern of behavior. Both folk wisdom, as represented by Alcoholics Anonymous, and modern neuroscience regard addiction as a virtually permanent brain disease. No matter how many years ago your uncle Joe had his last drink, he is still considered an alcoholic. The very word addict confers an identity that admits no other possibilities. It incorporates the assumption that you can’t, or won’t, change.

But this fatalistic thinking about addiction doesn’t jibe with the facts. More people overcome addictions than do not. And the vast majority do so without therapy. Quitting may take several tries, and people may not stop smoking, drinking or using drugs altogether. But eventually they succeed in shaking dependence.

Kicking these habits constitutes a dramatic change, but the change need not occur in a dramatic way. So when it comes to addiction treatment, the most effective approaches rely on the counterintuitive principle that less is often more. Successful treatment places the responsibility for change squarely on the individual and acknowledges that positive events in other realms may jump-start change.

Consider the experience of American soldiers returning from the war in Vietnam, where heroin use and addiction was widespread. In 90 percent of cases, when GIs left the pressure cooker of the battle zone, they also shed their addictions—in vivo proof that drug addiction can be just a matter of where in life you are.

Of course, it took more than a plane trip back from Asia for these men to overcome drug addiction. Most soldiers experienced dramatically altered lives when they returned. They left the anxiety, fear and boredom of the war arena and settled back into their home environments. They returned to their families, formed new relationships, developed work skills.

Smoking is at the top of the charts in terms of difficulty of quitting. But the majority of ex-smokers quit without any aid––neither nicotine patches nor gum, Smokenders groups nor hypnotism. (Don’t take my word for it; at your next social gathering, ask how many people have quit smoking on their own.) In fact, as many cigarette smokers quit on their own, an even higher percentage of heroin and cocaine addicts and alcoholics quit without treatment. It is simply more difficult to keep these habits going through adulthood. It’s hard to go to Disney World with your family while you are shooting heroin. Addicts who quit on their own typically report that they did so in order to achieve normalcy.

Every year, the National Survey on Drug Use and Health interviews Americans about their drug and alcohol habits. Ages 18 to 25 constitute the peak period of drug and alcohol use. In 2002, the latest year for which data are available, 22 percent of Americans between ages 18 and 25 were abusing or were dependent on a substance, versus only 3 percent of those aged 55 to 59. These data show that most people overcome their substance abuse, even though most of them do not enter treatment.

How do we know that the majority aren’t seeking treatment? In 1992, the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism conducted one of the largest surveys of substance use ever, sending Census Bureau workers to interview more than 42,000 Americans about their lifetime drug and alcohol use. Of the 4,500-plus respondents who had ever been dependent on alcohol, only 27 percent had gone to treatment of any kind, including Alcoholics Anonymous. In this group, one-third were still abusing alcohol.

Of those who never had any treatment, only about one-quarter were currently diagnosable as alcohol abusers. This study, known as the National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey, indicates first that treatment is not a cure-all, and second that it is not necessary. The vast majority of Americans who were alcohol dependent, about three-quarters, never underwent treatment. And fewer of them were abusing alcohol than were those who were treated.

This is not to say that treatment can’t be useful. But the most successful treatments are nonconfrontational approaches that allow self-propelled change. Psychologists at the University of New Mexico led by William Miller tabulated every controlled study of alcoholism treatment they could find. They concluded that the leading therapy was barely a therapy at all but a quick encounter between patient and health-care worker in an ordinary medical setting. The intervention is sometimes as brief as a doctor looking at the results of liver-function tests and telling a patient to cut down on his drinking. Many patients then decide to cut back—and do!

As brief interventions have evolved, they have become more structured. A physician may simply review the amount the patient drinks, or use a checklist to evaluate the extent of a drinking problem. The doctor then typically recommends and seeks agreement from the patient on a goal (usually reduced drinking rather than complete abstinence). More severe alcoholics would typically be referred out for specialized treatment. A range of options is discussed (such as attending AA, engaging in activities incompatible with drinking or using a self-help manual). A spouse or family member might be involved in the planning. The patient is then scheduled for a future visit, where progress can be checked. A case monitor might call every few weeks to see whether the person has any questions or problems.

The second most effective approach is motivational enhancement, also called motivational interviewing. This technique throws the decision to quit or reduce drinking—and to find the best methods for doing so—back on the individual. In this case, the therapist asks targeted questions that prompt the individual to reflect on his drinking in terms of his own values and goals. When patients resist, the therapist does not argue with the individual but explores the person’s ambivalence about change so as to allow him or her to draw his own conclusions: “You say that you like to be in control of your behavior, yet you feel when you drink you are often not in charge. Could you just clarify that for me?”

Miller’s team found that the list of most effective treatments for alcoholism included a few more surprises. Self-help manuals were highly successful. So was the community-reinforcement approach, which addresses the person’s capacity to deal with life, notably marital relationships, work issues (such as simply getting a job), leisure planning and social-group formation (a buddy might be provided, as in AA, as a resource to encourage sobriety). The focus is on developing life skills, such as resisting pressures to drink, coping with stress (at work and in relationships) and building communication skills.

These findings square with what we know about change in other areas of life: People change when they want it badly enough and when they feel strong enough to face the challenge, not when they’re humiliated or coerced. An approach that empowers and offers positive reinforcement is preferable to one that strips the individual of agency. These techniques are most likely to elicit real changes, however short of perfect and hard-won they may be.

[leviathon]

From Peele's book, 7 Tools to Beat Addiction

I am sharing my own analysis of me below in caps... sorry, not meaning to shout, just to distinguish my writing from his.

VALUING THESE THINGS HELPS COMBAT ADDICTION

• ACHIEVEMENT —accomplishing constructive and socially valued goals, such as participating in athletics, running for office, getting an education, succeeding at work, or providing for your family

THE FIRST TIME I QUIT FOR 10 YRS I WAS IN UNIVERSITY AND TOO BUSY AND IMMERSED IN MY STUDIES AND FUTURE TO EVEN WANT TO DRINK. I WAS ALSO EXTREMELY INVOLVED IN ATHLETICS.

• CONSCIOUSNESS —being alert, awake, and aware of your surroundings; using your mind to make sense out of your life and experience

ACADEMIA IS WONDERFUL FOR THIS. IT KEPT ME ON THE EDGE OF MY SEAT WITH THE LEARNING, DISCOURSE AND CHALLENGES. EACH AND EVERY DAY I LONGED TO BE CHALLENGED ... PROBLEM WAS THAT AT SOME POINT I BECAME SO IMMERSED IN MY STUDIES THAT I NEGLECTED TO 'MAKE SENSE OF MY LIFE AND EXPERIENCES'. THEY EVENTUALLY STEAM ROLLED AND CAUGHT UP TO ME.

• ACTIVITY —being energetic in daily life and engaged in the world around you

THIS HAS BEEN KEY BOTH IN MY INITIAL 10 YR SOBRIETY AND MY PRESENT SOBRIETY. MY ALCOHOL USE STEMMED FROM A FWE MAJOR POINTS: ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, SOCIAL ISOLATION, ETC.

• HEALTH —eating well, exercising, getting health care, and choosing an overall healthy lifestyle

ALCOHOL USE DEFINITELY UNDERMINES ALL OF THESE THINGS. NOW THAT MY MIND IS CLEAR, THESE THINGS ARE WONDERFULLY BACK IN MY LIFE: GOLF, WORKING OUT, SNOW BOARDING, BIKING, WALKING, AND I AM ACTUALLY FOCUSSING ON MY OWN HEALTH ISSUES (SUPPOSED HI BLOOD PRESSURE, TURNS OUT IT ISN'T JUST SPIKES AROUND DOCTORS, HIGH CHOLESTEROL AND SMOKING)

• RESPONSIBILITY —fulfilling your commitments as well as doing what the law obliges you to do

THIS IS AN ONGOING CHALLENGE AS SOMETIMES MY RESPONSIBILITIES ARE OVERWHELMING AND I HAVE TO BALANCE THEM WITH THE NEED TO BE ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION FREE. I AM LEARNING TO MANAGE EVERYTHING WITH HELP.

• SELF-RESPECT —caring for and about yourself and, by extension, all people

WHEN I DRANK I DID NOT CARE. I STARTED DRINKING, IN PART, B/C I BECAME VERY DISILLUSIONED WITH MY SENSE OF SELF OR SELF ESTEEM ... I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL AFTER BEING THE TOP STUDENT IN MY UNDERGRAD... THIS MADE ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT MYSELF, ALTHOUGH I DID NOT FLAUNT IT OR OTHERWISE BRAG OR BOAST ABOUT IT... IN LAW I WAS AN AVERAGE STUDENT... I KNOW NOW THAT THAT IS A COMMON OCCURRENCE AS YOU ARE SUDDENLY IN WITH THE TOP 1-2% OF ACADEMIC STUDENTS IN LAW SCHOOL. HOWEVER, ONE PROF IN LAW SCHOOL WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO MAKE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS BELOW AVERAGE (TURNS OUT MOST OF MY CLASS MATES FELT THE SAME WAY ABOUT THIS PROF AND HIS RATHER MALICIOUS ACTIONS) ... I NOW KNOW THAT THESE ARE HIS EGO ISSUES... IT TOOK TWO TO THREE YEARS OUT OF LAW SCHOOL TO REALIZE MY MARKS WERE NOT BAD AND IN FACT WERE QUITE GOOD... BUT THIS ONE BAD MARK AND THIS PROF'S STATEMENTS TO ME, MADE ME THINK I WAS A FAILURE WHEN IN FACT I WAS FAR FROM IT.

• COMMUNITY —being involved in the communities of which you are part (your town, school, work organization, religious group, neighborhood, political party) and contributing to the welfare of these groups—and the larger world

AFTER LAW SCHOOL I MOVED TO A NEW PLACE... STARTED WORK AT A LARGE CORPORATE FIRM. I LOVED THE WORK, BUT DID NOT FIT INTO THEIR MODEL. I BECAME VERY ISOLATED AND ALONE. MY FELLOW ARTICLED STUDENTS WERE VERY CLICKY AND ALL CAME FROM VERY UPPER MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES... I WAS ON MY OWN AT 14 AND NOT REALLY ABLE TO RELATE TO THEM AND THEIR EXPERIENCES.

I FELL INTO DEEP DEPRESSION (I HAVE CHRONIC DEPRESSION AS A RESULT OF A VERY VIOLENT AND ABUSIVE CHILDHOOD THAT INCLUDED MOST FORMS OF ABUSE) AND WAS UNABLE TO SEE MY WAY OUT OF IT. MY TRADITIONAL RELEASE, WORKING OUT, NO LONGER WORKED AS I TORE MY ROTATOR CUFF AND COULDN'T WORK OUT FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS. EVERYTHING CAVED IN AROUND ME AND I TURNED TO ALCOHOL (WHICH MY PARENTS HAD MODELLED AS AOKAY WHEN I WAS A CHILD) FOR A RELEASE. IT EVENTUALLY STEAM ROLLED TO THE POINT I CONSIDERED SUICIDE.

Happily, I got out of the 12-16 hour work days at the large corporate firm. I then happily got away from a very abusive boss at the firm I went to after that for 3 yrs (his idea of constructive criticism: that is f#$ing moronic, infantile, etc. ... very much like my father), and now have a great job, my own home and have been able to begin to work out again, find new hobbies and make wonderful friends. These changes have all helped me to reassert my sobriety and to recapture my life. The depression I experience is also under control as a result of a new medication that actually works, whereas the effexor I had been on for three years had stopped working, and I am actually able to function well every day. In addition, my traditional insomnia is now under control most days... that helps a lot as it contributes a huge amount to my mood and state of mind.

Peace, Levi

[debsjsu]

Im sorry if I seemed to have gotten off topic I thought I was on topic. I was just relating the topic to me personally.. Opps... I guess what I was trying to say is that some of us need to use more than one programs approach and more than just one programs tools to get what we need to find the sobriety that we seek. I can see where even though I was not even aware of Peele, who he was or what his approach is. I had never heard of him. My therapist apparently must have b/c some of the things listed here were exactly what I had to come to terms with before I was able to accept any kind of recovery program, or able to "hear" what was being said in the meetings. I was so full of anger, pain, and resentment I could not deal with it and couldn't work through it on my own. I needed help from a professional who knew how to work with someone who had been abused like I had. and knew how to open me up so I could hear and see. Then I was able to accept and work a program of recovery. So yes I used Peele's approach before I knew who Peele was.... I just didn't know it... My therapist did .... Love to all Debs

[jusme]

I know I haven't posted in a while here but, I wanted to chime in too because this has been such an interesting thread.
The thing I like about Peele's approch is that he recognizes that drug use (alcohol too) is a symptom of a deeper problem within the person. Not necessarily some huge revelation about your childhood or anything, i'm talking about anxiety and depression et al. I think the difference between Peele's approach and 12-step programs is just the way in which each advocates solving those problems. AA (for example) advocates a spiritual approach, which is great. Peele focuses more on the therapy side, which is also great. Both work for different people. Although I do not attend AA, I think it is great for some people. You meet new people, it gets you out of the house/away from work, and provides a supportive atmosphere. Some poeple don't want that though...the thing to remember is that there *are* alternatives.

[Taiman]

I haven't read Peele's book but I find his philosophies intriguing. I have been to his website and found it interesting. To be honest I don’t do a lot of thinking about not drinking. I just live and enjoy my life for the most part. However when I first got sober I did read a variety of books both on sobriety and making life changes.

For those of you who denigrate Peele for not being an alcoholic and simultaneously believe in the disease concept of alcoholism. If you had cancer would you seek treatment with an Oncologist or would you sit in the waiting room with another cancer patient trying to figure out what neither of you know?

Interesting enough AA co-founder Dr. Bob Smith was a proctologist. Apropos since he had to deal with so many assholes.

[PaleRider]

Originally Posted by leviathon

DebJ, totally relate to your last post. I am in similar situation in that I grew up in a violently abusive alcoholic home and that has had a lasting impact on my life, how I view life, trust, family and relationships. That is all complicated by the fact that I left home at 14 and disengaged from my family for twenty or so years and then shortly after I begand dealing with them again, my father goes and shoots himself dead.

In short, the answer for me has never been as easy as develop a program and get sober. My life is VERY complicated. I am told that I have a social adjustment disorder (i.e. I don't trust readily or easily) and I fear intimacy. Geeeeee, duh, I was violently beaten, sexually abused by a baby sitter (female thankfully), used drugs to "cope" with my pain and then complicated everything by going on to become a lawyer... gee now lets try to fit in with all these normal people that have had relatively normal lives and have travelled and have mommy and daddy loving them, etc. geeee if only I'd get a program shazam life would be resolved... NOT, not even close.

Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic, but there is so much more to what I am dealing with a program is only one small part of the much larger picture. I really do wish it was all as simple as getting a sponsor and a program and shazam life is better... that has helped (the program part, don't do AA so don't have a sponsor), but I have a lot of other issues that require understanding myself, a psychologist, trauma counselling, etc. There is no miracle in finding a program, that just helped me realize I needed to do something about the drinking, I then had to look at what was causing the drinking and begin to bring that out into the light of day and to work through it.

Peace, Levi.

Thanks for sharing, Levi...
We have a lot in common; Although I didn't go to Law school, I wanted to for a time. You have a lot of insight into what is "not right" with you.
I can see how it would be problematic being around so many people that had everything we did not...I call that a life of priviledge.

[leviathon]

I actually became quite outraged that I was expected to compete with others in law school that had gone to private school, had every opportunity (tutors, etc.) to achieve, and I had nothing. Heck I had dropped out of high school to work as I had to pay my own way. Now I realize, it is not what they had, it was that I was good enough and I just had to work a bit harder than they did. In the end, it doesn't matter, I have my degree, I work in the field that I want and I help those that are in need of legal services. In fact, I do a lot of legal aid and poverty law stuff, though not paying well, it is extremely rewarding. My experience has allowed me to be the lawyer that I am. I am grateful for that.

Peace, Levi

[leviathon]

Picking up on this thread, I read a wondeful article that included Stanton and a couple of others in Vancouver this past weekend while I was there. I just thought I would share it...

Finding Meaning in Life Key to Curing Addiction

Treatment for addiction—whether it’s to alcohol, crystal meth, or gambling—often includes counselling, support groups, or medication. But some say that what’s missing from successful therapy is an altogether different element: a sense of meaning. Experts from around the world, along with addicts and those in recovery, are meeting in Vancouver to explore the vital role that spirituality plays in helping people overcome chronic dependency.

New Jersey–based psychologist Stanton Peele is a firm backer of meaning as a crucial remedy for addiction. He’ll be speaking at the International Conference on Personal Meaning: Addiction, Meaning, and Spirituality, which takes place Thursday through Sunday (July 20 to 23) at the Hilton Vancouver Metrotown. In a phone interview with the Georgia Straight, Peele says people aren’t motivated to give up a drug or habit just because it’s bad for them or because their nearest and dearest want them to stop.

“People who use alcohol and drugs and don’t become addicted…have things that are more important to them that…prevent them from being submerged in the drug experience,” says Peele, who is also an attorney. “At the other end of the process, when…people overcome addiction, it virtually always boils down to something more important, something beyond themselves.…People always have some higher goal that prevents addiction or enables them to overcome addiction.

“Lack of a higher purpose, lack of concern for other people, lack of involvement with higher goals, lack of commitment to community: those are all significant [risk] factors for who’s likely to become addicted….People have different ways they quit addictions, but that’s all secondary to motivation. Motivation comes from something being more important to them.”

The solution, Peele stresses, isn’t an anti-addiction pill, which the U.S. National Institute on Drug Abuse is actively investigating. (According to the June 25 New York Times magazine, that group and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism are studying or financing studies into more than 200 addiction medications.)

“It’s impossible to describe why people become addicted or how they get over addiction in terms of purely chemical effects of what they’re addicted to,” he says. “That just doesn’t get you anywhere.”

Although the notion of a higher power shows up in 12-step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous—members turn their lives over to God as they understand him or some other greater force—Peele is critical of that particular approach.

“One of the things that’s wrong with treatment in America is people impose…their values on clients. The better way to…help people overcome addictions is to explore their own values, to find what’s going to give them leverage to overcome their addiction. That’s appropriate psychological technique, as opposed to religious didacticism where you’re kind of beating people over the head with what you think is a good idea.”

According to its Web site, AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution. Peele’s views on the group’s philosophy won’t necessarily align with those of all the 80 other speakers attending the conference, which is being hosted by the Langley-based International Network on Personal Meaning. George Vaillant, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, will give a public lecture called “Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure?” on Sunday (July 23). (Vaillant’s talk is free. For conference details, go to the INPM Web site at www.meaning.ca/.)

And although Ohio theology professor Linda Mercadante will discuss the role of religion in the healing of addictions, any concerns that the Vancouver forum is going to be overly heavy on what Owen Wilson’s character in Meet the Parents refers to as JC are quashed by INPM executive director Paul Wong. He stresses that the organization is nonreligious and nonpartisan. What distinguishes INPM from other spiritual groups is its emphasis on scientific research into the positive psychology of meaning.

Wong started the nonprofit INPM in 1998 because, at the time, there was little such study into meaning and its role in clinical practice. He says he is inspired by Viktor E. Frankl, the Austrian psychiatrist who in 1946 wrote Man’s Search for Meaning. The book covers his experiences in a concentration camp and how he found the will to go on despite his terrible circumstances.

Wong himself knows a thing or two about addiction and spirituality: he’s a registered clinical psychologist and an ordained pastor.

“People dealing with addiction need some kind of epiphany to become aware that if there are no changes they will die of overdose. Hitting rock bottom is a turning point,” Wong says in a phone interview. “Then they seek help and enter rehab. But an epiphany is not sufficient. They need another epiphany where they say ‘Ahhh, this is my passion for life, this is what I want to do, this is my future.’ Without future, there is no life. They need a second epiphany. This conference is about helping people discover their second epiphany.”

In his 2005 paper for the Salvation Army’s Vancouver Community and Family Services called Meaning-Centred Approach to Addiction Prevention, Treatment and Recovery, Wong points out some of the problems with Vancouver’s Four Pillars approach. It fails to recognize two root causes of addiction: dislocation and “existential vacuum”, or meaninglessness, Wong writes. The latter leads to chronic feelings of boredom and despair.

The treatment goals of the meaning-centred approach include not only recovery from addiction but also restoring a person to wholeness. MCA rests on a tragic sense of optimism: it recognizes bleak reality but believes that there is hope for every addict.

Wong says the conference aims to help addicts themselves find that hope.

“You don’t have to believe ‘once an addict, always an addict,’?” he says. Besides sessions about logotherapy and the need for evidence-based research into meaning, the INPM conference also has seminars on yoga and Buddhist Vipassana meditation.

“This is for people looking for encouragement on the journey to wholeness,” Wong says. “Which new path do you want to pursue?”
By gail johnson

Publish Date: 20-Jul-2006
Mark “Atomos” Pilon illustration

Peace Levi

[Don S]

Wong says the conference aims to help addicts themselves find that hope.

“You don’t have to believe ‘once an addict, always an addict,’?” he says.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[leviathon]

No Problem Don, after reading a lot of your posts, I kind a felt you would relate to this posting. The article was incredible to read and conforms with my view of what it takes to get better.

Peace, Levi

[Musky]

I have been visiting this site for less than a week. I want to thank everyone participating in this thread. As I find myself at a point where considering my own drawbacks/problems has become an absolute necessity, I think reading and trying to understand the well articulated and thoughtful viewpoints expressed here could actually be a sort of therapy for me. My desire to quit drinking, though real, now seems to be of a rather shallow nature.

I am very impressed with how many of you have addressed your addictions in such depth. I am embarrassed for myself when I consider how I originally thought I would use the facilities offered within the parameters of this site. It is far more than a place where I can post and say, "I'm not going to drink today", though that certainly can have value also. I apologize for underestimating its content.

It is obvious that many of you are not content to say, "this has worked for me", but are determined to understand WHY what you have done has worked to keep you sober.

I'm going to make a concerted effort to research the different theories regarding recovery from alcoholism. That alone may be enough intellectual stimulation to keep me occupied and out of trouble for the next couple weeks.

Thanks again for this thread, I'm going to dig into this site for other similar discussions. I'm sorry that this post did not directly address the topic at hand.

Kevin

[Don S]

Welcome, Musky, and you certainly have nothing to apologize for!

Peele has a very useful site. I also really like the articles at this site:
http://www.rational.org.nz/public.htm
...especially Who Controls You?
[Note: this is NOT Rational Recovery's web site; it's a CBT site in New Zealand.]
I also recommend, if you can find it, Vince Fox's book Addiction, Change, and Choice. Anne M. Fletcher's book Sober For Good is great. Jack Trimpey's The Small Book (Rational Recovery Systems). Tom Horvath's Sex, Drugs, Gambling & Chocolate. Philip Tate's Alcohol: How To Give It Up and Be Glad You Did. And, of course, somewhere along the line you probably will want to read the 'big book' of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's available online.

[Musky]

Don S

Thank you for that list of books and the website. A trip to the bookstore is in order. I have Anne Fletcher's book from several years back, which I mainly purchased to show my wife I was trying. I read some of it, but it didn't resonate at the time due to my mind set. I'm a constant reader, our house is full of packed bookcases. It's time to add a few self help titles to the fiction and history that line the shelves.

I started this recent journey by reading most of the AA Big Book on line last Saturday, but I also need to look elsewhere. At this point I have no meetings in my plan.

Kevin