Part 2 Whats The Deal With AA?

[CarolD]

The orginal thread starter

What's the deal with AA?
I'll bite.

If I do continue to contribute to this board, many will find that I tend to play devils advocate.

First, however, thanks for all the advice on my insomnia thread. It actually was quite useful and I am sleeping now (and sober). I'm on day 10 or so (I try not to KEEP count - don't want to become obsessed with something different).

I'll try to keep this short - but it might be difficult. The only reason I will pose these kinds of thoughts is because of what I've read here. Everyone on SR seems pretty nice and open minded (to an extent... but, then again, we all have our vices and points of view).

AA

I've been there. In Japan it is still a bit rare (most alcoholics in Japan, if they seek help, end up hospitalized for long periods of time and, if you you go to a NON-AA meeting about alcoholics here, most of the old guys there will tell you that they were almost dead, not just struggling with marital or social problems) to find AA groups. However, in Osaka, I was introduced to a group through a friend of mine who has been drinking pretty hard for the last 20+ years. I see his situation as a success story, though he still drinks. AA has given him a lot of structure and aim in his life that he lacked before. He is an American and grew up on the streets and without a lot of parental supervision. In addition to alcohol, he has done just about every drug in existence. But, at heart, he is good.

I call him a success story because he learned to control his drinking. He binges about once a month, but that is not at all usual in ANY place. People like to indulge in the "pleasures of life", even if they are harmful. There are PLENTY of things besides alcohol that are harmful. Some hypochondriacs could go on and on about all the poisons we put in/on our bodies.

So why is this "disease" different? And I am not one bit convinced it is a disease. There's a big difference between willpower and cancer.

It seems to me that most people in AA have replaced an obsession/addiction to alcohol with the obsession of abstinence. In my book, any obsession leads to destructive behaviour. I have seen AA members preach to others about not drinking, and it is, frankly, kind of sickening. It's like having a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness come to your house and try to save your soul. Life is something that we each deal with on our own terms. Some are christians, some buddhists, some hindu, some agnostic (me - to a fault probably).

I 100% applaud the people who get good help from AA. But AA seems to be the ONLY ANSWER to a lifestyle issue that many people have - alcohol. Why is it the ONLY solution?

I know on this board there is a specific message not to push AA on people who are not willing to accept it or ready for it, but what is the alternative? Even in THIS forum, where pressure to go to AA is discouraged, you see AA pop up ALL THE TIME in posts.

AA is a POSSIBLE avenue to changing the way one thinks. IT IS NOT THE ONLY SOLUTION. AA is also riddled with christian over/undertones that make it incredibly inaccessible to a large portion of Earth's population. Higher Power? Yeah, it could be your parents, or your piano, but what AA is really trying to get everyone to do is accept a god into their life and to give up control because we are, apparently, "incappable" of making choice for ourselves. This seems incredibly self-defeating to me.

I made a conscious choice not to drink and, other than the insane physiological symptom of not being able to sleep, it has proven to be absolutly no problem for me.

I guess what I just don't understand is the need for only ONE cure to a life-choice problem. Cancer has options. Alzeimers has options. Drinking too much? GO TO AA!!!!! Why!?!?!?!

To meet and talk to other people that share the same problem.

So why the heck isn't there a group that doesn't base their conversation on something other than 12-stepping. I don't feel any particular desire to own up to people I may have hurt by drinking - we hurt people (as humans) in an infinate number of ways besides drinking. Why does drinking rate a step where we bear our souls to people that probably FORGOT about what we did to them? What about the school bully that screwed up my life? He was 10 years old - not at all a heavy drinker. Where's his apology? Why do I have to give my life over to someone else when human beings are perfectly capable of taking charge of their own lives? It might not be easy, BUT LIFE IS NOT EASY.

As far as I can see, the "recovery" system is vastly flawwed.

I don't believe in god or higher powers. I am worm food. I try to live my life as best I can and do good to those around me. I have even been able to do a lot of good when I was drinking - lending an impartial and overly-honest ear to people in need. How is that bad?

Your thoughts are welcome.

Other than not being able to sleep as much (which is kind of nice), not drinking has not IN ANY WAY changed my lifestyle. I still waste as much time playing video games, watching simpson's episodes, and doing my job.

Sorry for any spelling mistakes. I type fast - and don't check.

Cheers? - sorry, that might be a bad word.

-wordtank

[doorknob]

Great.

[CarolD]

From Morning Glory...

I have seen Rational Recovery work for some and have seen some try it unsuccessfully.

I have seen Smart work for some.

I have seen AA work for some and have seen some try it unsuccessfully.

I have seen near beer work for some and have read that others tried it unsuccessfully.

I have seen a mixture of programs work for some and have seen some try it unsuccessfully.

I have seen therapy, behavior changes, and medication work for some and have also seen some try it unsuccessfully.

I have seen moderate drinking work for some and most try it unsuccessfully.

I have seen treatment and rehabs work for some and seen others drink the first day out.

I have seen alcoholics drink the same amount daily for 30 years without it progressing.

I have also seen the terrible progression of alcoholism.

I have seen spiritual awareness work for some.

I have seen jail work for some.

Some like face to face support groups. Some like on line communities.

Some just make a choice to quit and know nothing about any of this.

Some aren't ready to quit and don't make a commitment to try any of these things.


Congratulations to all those who have found a way to remain sober and I'm glad there are a lot of choices offered to members. The passion in these discussions just shows that you found something that works well for you.

I am thankful that my daughter made a choice to quit alcohol 12 years ago and now only drinks near beer occasionally.

I am thankful that my brother doesn't get drunk now and has been able to drink in moderation for years.

I'm thankful that my son received information through rehab, AA, and court ordered substance abuse classes and he finally made a choice to quit drinking.

I don't care how they did it. I'm just glad they did it and I'm glad to have them back.

[brigid]

I stopped drinking and smoked a lot of pot ONLY, no alcohol. I treated it like a methadone program, finally gave up the pot.

I agree Carol there are many ways to recovery and the steps may not be the 12 outlined by AA, but it has always been very comforting for me to know that AA is there if I needed them.

Recovery isn't flawed, life just isn't perfect. I think that is the thing we should not look for, it will always disappoint us if we don't accept that life is qwerky.

AA is great to have around, it is well known, has some good role models, it is trusted for anonymity and it is full of alcoholics ... got to be a caring place.

Even though I have only been to 4 AA meetings in the 8 years I have been sober, I am eternally grateful that such an organisation exists.


"Hugs not Drugs"

[CarolD]

AA is not the only solution! You see it here so often as the majority of SR members who share are also AA members.

Here is a link from my files..Thanks to Don S.
Alternatives
I'm fond of this web link, because it compares the most common programs and gives an overview of their philosophies:

. http://rrci.net/recovery_spectrum.htm


Why do I think alcoholism is a disease?
'Under The Influence' by Dr. James Milam & K. Ketcham
was the key to my understanding of how my body processes alcohol incorrectly.


The God I have keeps me in peace and joy.
I did not discover Him in AA.

If anyone disagrees...I certainly do not care.
If anyone chooses to not attend AA...I certainly do not care.

I post here to share MY recovery journey. I hope it encourges others to seek their own.

[debsjsu]

Hay everybody.. Well here I go again. My opinion and my opinion only. I do not believe that one program will work for everybody, if it did we would only have one program with a 100% success rate and we don't. But I do believe that if you WANT to get sober that there is a way or a program that will work for you. I do NOT think that I have a right to judge or put down any program or way of getting sober that has worked for another person. Even if I don't agree with them, if it is working for them then it is not my place to judge. I might need to gain information about how they are doing it b/c I might have a loved one or a friend that might need their way of sobriety soon. I need to have an open mind to all avenues of sobriety that are out there, not all people are the same. However, I need to be very careful when talking about any recovery program and make very sure that I am being HONEST in what I am saying about that program. I do not want to be responsible for misleading another person or scaring a struggling alcoholic away from recovery. The tongue can be sharper than the sword. There is nothing wrong with asking questions about things you have heard or don't understand, but totally demeaning or condeming any program is hurtful to others. Your feelings and experiences are important and you have a right to share them, just share them responsibly, with love and respect for your fellow alcoholics. We are all in the same boat, it is called Earth. We are all looking for the same thing it is called Sobrity. How we get there can have many different road maps and we can share them with each other, with love, respect, and kindness, one alcoholic to another. I chose AA b/c it was the only recovery program avaliable in my area. The first 5 years I didn't stay sober I was a chronic relapser. I remember saying AA dosn't work for me. One of the old timers told me " If you work AA it will work for you" I finally did it and have been sober 10 yrs now. I don't push AA on anyone b/c AA is for those who want it not for those who need it. It is hard work at first but it gets easier. And the rewards are amazing. Its kinda like going to a new job where you have to be trained. The first few weeks you might be sore from the hard work b/c your not use to it but soon you get the hang of it and your not sore anymore. Then the paychecks come rolling in.. A lot of people don't want to do the work when they get to AA. They just want to go to meetings and go home. Then they say it dosn't work. If I go to my job and sit in a chair, do nothing and go home I don't think my paycheck will be very good. Thats kinda how AA works. You get out of it what you put into it. It just took me a long time to be willing to work the program and get honest. When I did I got sober. As I am sure other programs have success storys. AA is not the only way. It is just my way. Love to all Debs

[BSPGirl]

CarolD, that link comparing different recovery methods is really informative. Thanks for posting it.

[CarolD]

Here is a link to the orginal thread...

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-aa-66218.html

All long threads at SR are being closed
amd new ones started.

Please continue to share ...

[drew_61]

That's a great link, Carol. I accidentally found Rational Recovery when I was desperately looking for an AA alternative a couple of weeks ago. It makes sense to me in a way that AA could not. Since there are so many different types of people, it only makes sense that not one program will work for everyone. I am an atheist, so no "HP" for me...plus, I hated the "powerless" aspect of the program. I am a human being with free will...only I can pick up a drink and force myself to lose my sobriety. I cannot drink again...EVER. With that said, I have known many fine folks for whom AA is their lifeblood and I think that it's a great option for many. I'm glad that there are options, and I am glad to see some of them posted here...

drew

[CarolD]

Originally Posted by CarolD

Here is a link to the orginal thread...

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-aa-66218.html

All long threads at SR are being closed
amd new ones started.

Please continue to share ...

Notice,,,

After SR upgraded the site
the above link does not work.
This happened to all forums
not only Alcoholism.


Sorry....

[Baritone]

Thanks to all who have posted so far - i really appreciate what you all are saying.

When looking at the various recovery programs, what jumps out for me is that none of them fits me perfectly. I don't personally believe that alcoholism is a disease, nor do i believe that i am powerless over alcohol. Yet i have found that a spiritual solution is the key to sober serenity in my life, and i get that from the AA program. I also have to remind myself that any time ten people read something in a book, there's going to be ten different understandings of what is said, based on our own interpretation of the words. Which means that nobody (in particular the self-appointed experts on "the program of Alcoholics Anonymous as laid out in the first 164 pages of the Big Book") has any authority to tell anyone else exactly what that program is.

- Jim

[CarolD]

you write the book you get to be a
"self appointed expert"...

Glad to see you here Jim...Welcome!

[2dayzmuse]

One size does not fit all. That is to be expected. In order to find sobriety, I had to make some adjustments in my thinking and my willingness. It was worth it and overall pretty painless.

[paulmh]

This thread was enough to encourage me to register - devil's advocated or not..

I've been sober for a wee while, in the fellowship. For the most part I'm pretty good - certainly with regards to drinking, one day at a time. But one thing I'm having real problems with, and it's quite obviously a character flaw which I'm finding it hard to shift - whenever anyone criticises AA - well, defensive is not the word to describe me! I'm not religious, but I perceive the point of AA not to be to convert me, but to undo the damage of my pride. I see it as a therapeutic programme, so it doesn't really matter what I "believe" about God or anything or anyone else - only what I do for myself. That recognition, incidentally - that it doesn't matter what I believe - I found immensely liberating. But the prideful part I can't shift is whenever anyone else criticises the fellowship! I'm happy to admit that it's not the only way, or even the best way, but it is my way!

Ach, I guess I'm just a zealot!

[Arura]

Carol cracking post.! lots of food for thought there for me.....
thanking you for your time and comittment......