Sexual abuse in AA a serious problem - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Taiman · 04-25-2006, 01:46 PM

This article was written in The Guardian, a well respected newspaper in England. It was written in 2000 but I only recently learned of it. It seems that sexual abuse is a very serious problem in AA and the police have become involved. AA in England circulated a memo to every group about the problem.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...036900,00.html

Justme57 · 04-25-2006, 02:06 PM

there is a small minority of men and women who operate with sick but hidden agendas, and, no matter what they may say, they seek self-gratification often at the expense of other members or potential members".( from article)

We here in Australia, also ocassionally get memos from Central Office, reminding us , as a group, to be aware of " 13 steppers", and their dealings with " newcomers" We deal with this a s a group, and as I live in a very big city, all the groups discuss this at their GC meetings, and come up with strategies.

This to me , seems like a usual media beat up, they have no idea , and must have been short of news that week. There are predators, sexual and otherwise, in society in general, at least in the rooms, we can be aware , and put stratergies in place to stop it occurring

HUGX
lee

Taiman · 04-25-2006, 02:17 PM

It is a serious enough issue to warrant a police investigation, a news story from a major English Newspaper and a memo to every AA meeting in England. I think that constitutes a serious threat/issue.

I am sorry some people would down play something as horrific as sexual assault. The Catholic Church did the same thing for decades until they started to get sued. Clearly sexual assault is a major threat for those who choose to attend AA. I hope AA takes the threat seriously and takes major steps to address the issue and protect its members & others who attend their meetings.

2stop · 04-25-2006, 02:26 PM

Sexual abuse is serious anywhere.It is serious in homes across the world...we don't need to go knocking family's down to 'prove' that.............I do not seek my recovery through AA/NA, and don't even agree with all their philospohy's.........BUT there are GOOD people there...and I have no doubt they are doing everything they can to prevent this............It's not like AA just "attracts" sexual pervs.............but some people with alcohol/drug issues are sicko's in the worst sense of the word.....AA doesn't produce them or give them a 'sanctuary" ................there are sicko's everywhere.

JMHO................thanks!

BSPGirl · 04-25-2006, 02:41 PM

Uh that article isn't very recent, sooooooooo...

Justme57 · 04-25-2006, 02:43 PM

Exactly BSP ............................................. Ugh indeed

HUGX
lee

BSPGirl · 04-25-2006, 02:47 PM

Yeah 'ugh' but this happens in any organization, sadly enough. But also since this article isn't recent that might mean they've done things to improve and prevent it happening again.

Taiman · 04-25-2006, 02:56 PM

It astounds me that people can be so laissez faire about such a serious issue. I am fortunate enough to have never experienced sexual abuse but I have spoken to those who have. It has a devasting, life altering experience that can have tragic consequences on the victim.

I guess some people are just blind no matter what. I just hope they aren't the ones who are attacked.

tyler · 04-25-2006, 03:08 PM

Gotta tell you Taiman, I dont' think anyone is discounting that sexual abuse is a horible thing, it is just that you seem to be using it to promote your anti-AA agenda again. Now you don't have to go into the whole thing about how you used to hold a million different positions in AA and all of that, because I really don't care. As 2Stop pointed out sexual predators are everywhere, including AA meetings. There are thousands, if not millions of sexual predators on-line, but that doesn't keep me off line, I am just cautious of how I handle myself. I do find it interesting that all of the people who have replied thusfar to your post, myself included, (with the exception of JustMe) are not in the AA camp at all. BSP hangs her hat with SMART, 2stop and I kind of work our own mix of "programs" (hope I'm not speaking out of turn here 2stop). I just find it annoying when people who have an obvious ax to grind use articles like this to attempt to prove their point. Instead of putting AA down, why don't you work to improve the visibility of other options. Just a thought. I'm sure this will quickly deginerate into a flame war and the thread locked shortly. Just my 2 cents.

2stop · 04-25-2006, 03:10 PM

Come on now...I have been raped and sexually abused.........placing blame where it was unfounded and overgenralizations in my thought processes kept me a slave to the traumatic experience itself and of no use to others.

I have seen no one here be laissez faire or "blind" as you are complaining....

All have agreed sexual abuse is prevalent in society...
all have agreed it needs addressed.......

what are you waiting for us to say?

AA is to blame? AA attracts it and harbors it? It doesn't....of course there are sexual predators there! There are sexual predators in many family units........schools, nursing homes.....etc etc........it's everywhere. To put AA in a poor light or innuendize it is a sexual haven for sexual predators is wrong IMO.....BUT that's JMHO....................

2stop · 04-25-2006, 03:11 PM

You're not speaking out of turn Tyler!!! I don't have a name for what I work..except it works...and I work it! {{{HUGS TYLER!!}}}

doorknob · 04-25-2006, 03:16 PM

If somebody is hit on, that's one thing. If somebody is assaulted, they should report it to the police and press charges, no matter where it occurred.

Justme57 · 04-25-2006, 03:18 PM

And a very good 2 cents worth it was too, tyler

That is exactly the problem with the post ....................the motive. i have aknowledged that AA are well aware of the potential problem, and adress it on an ongoing basis.

just seems to me, that dredging up an old newspaper article ( 6 years old) is a bit of overkill in the " bash AA department." i dont care if people agree with AA or not, what ever works, i would not like to see any other programme debased on the say so of a long ago newspaper article

HUGX
Lee

rose petals · 04-25-2006, 03:35 PM

hmmmm, when i came into aa i was soooo trusting--i thought wow these people are great if they are living this way--over the yrs i have seen alot--lol--there are good people in aa but there are alot of bad--i have come to a place now where i have more of a balance --i do not trust everyone in aa completely anymore --in fact alot of hypocrites, but it is a good program --i take what i can and leave the rest--i dont do everything the program entails--tried that--i have finally found a comfortable niche--by the way i ha d a man come over to my house when i was blacked out , from aa, and take advantage of me--he had a few yrs--some men have tried to grope me or say innapropriate things--but the few good people ive met are great--it is unfortunate
laura

doorknob · 04-25-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler

2stop and I kind of work our own mix of "programs"

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2stop

I don't have a name for what I work..except it works...and I work it!

I thought you two might appreciate this:

Quote:

The LifeRing approach to recovery lays emphasis on self-help and on learning through experimentation. LifeRing members are not expected to present identical profiles, and there is no fixed therapeutic pathway through which everyone must pass. The common goal is a full life with zero consumption of alcohol and addictive mind-altering drugs; but there are many roads to get there, and all are equally valid. You, as a recovering person, are a scientist conducting a series of experiments of which you are also the subject. You will try different ideas and different behaviors and see if they help keep you sober. If they work for you, you will probably retain them; if they lead you into relapse, you are encouraged to change them and try something else. The set of ideas and behaviors that work for you compose your personal recovery program.

http://www.unhooked.com/toolbox/index.html

DK

markofevil · 04-25-2006, 04:31 PM

It would be difficult for AA to deal with any kind of problem since AA is really just a collection of meetings around the world. About the only thing AA can do is send out guidelines and warnings.

There are predators out there. We have one who goes from meeting to meeting looking for newly sober AA women. He doesn't assault them, but he tries to get them in the sack at a time when they are emotionally confused due to their new sobriety and withdrawl. A lot of the veteran women know about him though and basically chase him off. He's not doing anything illegal though so other than putting out the word, there isn't much that can be done.

jimhere · 04-25-2006, 04:39 PM

sad but true.

**Peter** · 04-25-2006, 05:03 PM

There is sexual abuse in our homes and schools, in our workplace and in our institutions of higher learning.Heck there was even a report recently of a church minister raping one of the church members.

C'mon Tai.I know you do not approve of AA but that outdated article just appears a little too much like mudslinging....thirteen stepping is and probably always will be a serious issue for AA to deal with..

04-25-2006, 01:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
Taiman Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 108	Sexual abuse in AA a serious problem This article was written in The Guardian, a well respected newspaper in England. It was written in 2000 but I only recently learned of it. It seems that sexual abuse is a very serious problem in AA and the police have become involved. AA in England circulated a memo to every group about the problem. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...036900,00.html

04-25-2006, 02:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
Justme57 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne victoria Posts: 1,957	there is a small minority of men and women who operate with sick but hidden agendas, and, no matter what they may say, they seek self-gratification often at the expense of other members or potential members".( from article) We here in Australia, also ocassionally get memos from Central Office, reminding us , as a group, to be aware of " 13 steppers", and their dealings with " newcomers" We deal with this a s a group, and as I live in a very big city, all the groups discuss this at their GC meetings, and come up with strategies. This to me , seems like a usual media beat up, they have no idea , and must have been short of news that week. There are predators, sexual and otherwise, in society in general, at least in the rooms, we can be aware , and put stratergies in place to stop it occurring HUGX lee
	__________________

04-25-2006, 02:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
2stop ~Author of My Life~ Join Date: May 2003 Location: Where less is more..... Posts: 4,638	Sexual abuse is serious anywhere.It is serious in homes across the world...we don't need to go knocking family's down to 'prove' that.............I do not seek my recovery through AA/NA, and don't even agree with all their philospohy's.........BUT there are GOOD people there...and I have no doubt they are doing everything they can to prevent this............It's not like AA just "attracts" sexual pervs.............but some people with alcohol/drug issues are sicko's in the worst sense of the word.....AA doesn't produce them or give them a 'sanctuary" ................there are sicko's everywhere. JMHO................thanks!
	__________________ Many Hugs and Hope too, Tammie "Think of all the beauty still left around you and BE HAPPY." ~Anne Frank~ "Things do not change, WE change." ~Henry David Thoreau~

04-25-2006, 02:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Justme57 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne victoria Posts: 1,957	Exactly BSP ............................................. Ugh indeed HUGX lee
	__________________

04-25-2006, 03:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
tyler Not all better, getting better Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Getting back to the beach!!!!!! :-) Posts: 780	Gotta tell you Taiman, I dont' think anyone is discounting that sexual abuse is a horible thing, it is just that you seem to be using it to promote your anti-AA agenda again. Now you don't have to go into the whole thing about how you used to hold a million different positions in AA and all of that, because I really don't care. As 2Stop pointed out sexual predators are everywhere, including AA meetings. There are thousands, if not millions of sexual predators on-line, but that doesn't keep me off line, I am just cautious of how I handle myself. I do find it interesting that all of the people who have replied thusfar to your post, myself included, (with the exception of JustMe) are not in the AA camp at all. BSP hangs her hat with SMART, 2stop and I kind of work our own mix of "programs" (hope I'm not speaking out of turn here 2stop). I just find it annoying when people who have an obvious ax to grind use articles like this to attempt to prove their point. Instead of putting AA down, why don't you work to improve the visibility of other options. Just a thought. I'm sure this will quickly deginerate into a flame war and the thread locked shortly. Just my 2 cents.
	__________________ Peace and Love, Tyler Heck is where people go who don't believe in Gosh "Protest is the highest form of democracy." Gen. Wesley Clark "Meat is food, veggies are food's food!" -pedagogue

04-25-2006, 02:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Taiman Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 108	It is a serious enough issue to warrant a police investigation, a news story from a major English Newspaper and a memo to every AA meeting in England. I think that constitutes a serious threat/issue. I am sorry some people would down play something as horrific as sexual assault. The Catholic Church did the same thing for decades until they started to get sued. Clearly sexual assault is a major threat for those who choose to attend AA. I hope AA takes the threat seriously and takes major steps to address the issue and protect its members & others who attend their meetings.

04-25-2006, 02:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
BSPGirl Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 898	Uh that article isn't very recent, sooooooooo...

04-25-2006, 02:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
BSPGirl Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nowhere Posts: 898	Yeah 'ugh' but this happens in any organization, sadly enough. But also since this article isn't recent that might mean they've done things to improve and prevent it happening again.

04-25-2006, 02:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Taiman Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 108	It astounds me that people can be so laissez faire about such a serious issue. I am fortunate enough to have never experienced sexual abuse but I have spoken to those who have. It has a devasting, life altering experience that can have tragic consequences on the victim. I guess some people are just blind no matter what. I just hope they aren't the ones who are attacked.

04-25-2006, 03:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
2stop ~Author of My Life~ Join Date: May 2003 Location: Where less is more..... Posts: 4,638	Come on now...I have been raped and sexually abused.........placing blame where it was unfounded and overgenralizations in my thought processes kept me a slave to the traumatic experience itself and of no use to others. I have seen no one here be laissez faire or "blind" as you are complaining.... All have agreed sexual abuse is prevalent in society... all have agreed it needs addressed....... what are you waiting for us to say? AA is to blame? AA attracts it and harbors it? It doesn't....of course there are sexual predators there! There are sexual predators in many family units........schools, nursing homes.....etc etc........it's everywhere. To put AA in a poor light or innuendize it is a sexual haven for sexual predators is wrong IMO.....BUT that's JMHO....................
	__________________ Many Hugs and Hope too, Tammie "Think of all the beauty still left around you and BE HAPPY." ~Anne Frank~ "Things do not change, WE change." ~Henry David Thoreau~

04-25-2006, 03:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
2stop ~Author of My Life~ Join Date: May 2003 Location: Where less is more..... Posts: 4,638	You're not speaking out of turn Tyler!!! I don't have a name for what I work..except it works...and I work it! {{{HUGS TYLER!!}}}
	__________________ Many Hugs and Hope too, Tammie "Think of all the beauty still left around you and BE HAPPY." ~Anne Frank~ "Things do not change, WE change." ~Henry David Thoreau~

04-25-2006, 03:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
doorknob Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leavenworth, WA Posts: 1,340	If somebody is hit on, that's one thing. If somebody is assaulted, they should report it to the police and press charges, no matter where it occurred.
	__________________

04-25-2006, 03:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Justme57 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Melbourne victoria Posts: 1,957	And a very good 2 cents worth it was too, tyler That is exactly the problem with the post ....................the motive. i have aknowledged that AA are well aware of the potential problem, and adress it on an ongoing basis. just seems to me, that dredging up an old newspaper article ( 6 years old) is a bit of overkill in the " bash AA department." i dont care if people agree with AA or not, what ever works, i would not like to see any other programme debased on the say so of a long ago newspaper article HUGX Lee
	__________________

04-25-2006, 03:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
rose petals alcohol-kicked-my butt Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: oregon Posts: 198	hmmmm, when i came into aa i was soooo trusting--i thought wow these people are great if they are living this way--over the yrs i have seen alot--lol--there are good people in aa but there are alot of bad--i have come to a place now where i have more of a balance --i do not trust everyone in aa completely anymore --in fact alot of hypocrites, but it is a good program --i take what i can and leave the rest--i dont do everything the program entails--tried that--i have finally found a comfortable niche--by the way i ha d a man come over to my house when i was blacked out , from aa, and take advantage of me--he had a few yrs--some men have tried to grope me or say innapropriate things--but the few good people ive met are great--it is unfortunate laura
	__________________ Desperate times call for desperate measures

04-25-2006, 04:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
markofevil Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	It would be difficult for AA to deal with any kind of problem since AA is really just a collection of meetings around the world. About the only thing AA can do is send out guidelines and warnings. There are predators out there. We have one who goes from meeting to meeting looking for newly sober AA women. He doesn't assault them, but he tries to get them in the sack at a time when they are emotionally confused due to their new sobriety and withdrawl. A lot of the veteran women know about him though and basically chase him off. He's not doing anything illegal though so other than putting out the word, there isn't much that can be done.

04-25-2006, 04:39 PM	#17 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 989	sad but true.

04-25-2006, 05:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
Peter Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Jah-mek-yah Posts: 2,159	There is sexual abuse in our homes and schools, in our workplace and in our institutions of higher learning.Heck there was even a report recently of a church minister raping one of the church members. C'mon Tai.I know you do not approve of AA but that outdated article just appears a little too much like mudslinging....thirteen stepping is and probably always will be a serious issue for AA to deal with..