Sexual abuse in AA a serious problem

[laurie6781]

Well I wasn't going to put in my .02 but have changed my mind.

First of all that article was from 6 years ago in England. Now I have English friends in AA that have come here to visit and have attended meetings here and commented that they wished their meetings were like ours.

I have had friends here go to England, attend meetings there, come home shaking their heads not sure if they had been at an AA meeting or not. AA seems to be run differently than here, I don't know why that is.

Now Levi as to your comment above, apparently you have never seen 3 or 4 sober AA women corner the offending male or female of a 13 step attempt. It is a sight to behold.

Also, as Music has stated, I don't know what the male sponsors tell their sponsees, but I do know that the first thing that is talked about to a newcomer female, by several of the sober female members, is all about 13 stepping, and sticking with the women.

As Music said, none of us got here being naive. Over almost 25 years now of attending meetings ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, I have never seen anything like what was in that article.

JMHO

Love and (((((to all))))),

[2dayzmuse]

It doesn't take alot of strength and courage to say no to unwanted advances. If it doesn't feel right, tell someone and ask them their take, get their opinion. We've got to look out for one another.

Maybe I'm wrong. I guess I really don't no how to help someone who doesn't have the strength or courage to stand up for themselves or realize they are heading into danger. I realize they are some out there who can't recognize it.

[Peter]

Perhaps the title of this thread "Sexual abuse in AA a serious problem" is just too tempting a morsel for anti AA's to take a nip at ......

[Don S]

(scrolling back through to see who Peter thinks is an 'anti AA' and what proportion of the 78 replies here qualifies....)

[leviathon]

Laurie, I can honestly say that I have never seen 3-4 women get on a man attempting to abuse his position of trust. I am VERY glad that you advised of that situation. I, as a male, to be fair, have never been pulled aside and warned about the thirteenth steppers. Again, however, I attended for over a year and never learned about the 13th stepper in a meeting... I only heard about it inadvertantly ... the issue actually came up with an old timer who was hanging on a young lady (adult) and the guys were joking with her outside the meeting about the thirteenth steppers and to watch for them... up until then it had NEVER crossed my mind... so again... what is wrong with raising awareness of the issue? That is all I am saying....

I also wish to be extremely clear, I think AA is a wonderful organization that does a HUGE amount of good. While I am not in it, that doesn't mean I don't commend AA and all the wonderful miracles it gives rise too. I use the big book regulalry. My sole issue is why not raise awareness in AA and everywhere else in society... I know personally a lot of women and even a couple of youths that have been abused and I wonder why we wouldn't all want to just ensure that the issue is formally out there and that this type of behavior is unacceptable in any form. The people I know are strong and upstanding people that were taken advantage of by people in positions of trust... because of the "trust" they let their gaurds down until it was too late.... Now they have to live for the rest of their lives with what was done to them.

I don't want to be on a soap box, but this is an important issue in society generally, not just in AA. The stats are that one in four women are raped, for every one child abuser that is reported, 300 go unreported. Why not just raise awareness to prevent this stuff. My beef isn't with AA at all. This issue just strikes a chord with me b/c I have dated women that have been raped, I have relatives that have been raped, I know children that have been sexually abused (reported)... these types of predators need to be held accountable.

[Morning Glory]

I don't think raising awareness is going to help that much at this point. When you're vulnerable you're vulnerable even when you're aware. Raising awareness has helped parents keep their minor children safer in a lot of cases. Not near enough though.

I work in an organization where the awareness is very high and everyone gets a criminal background check before being able to work with a vulnerable population. The abuse is still tremendous.

I feel your passion leviathon. I'm a victim of sexual assault. My children are victims of sexual assault. Hopefully my grandchildren won't be victims, but there are no guarantees.

Every blue dot represents a registered sex offender in LA. Add the 300 to that which you say are unreported and we are in a world of trouble. Each dot has a victim that will probably grow up to be a vulnerable adult. We're in way over our heads on this one.

[BSPGirl]

Perhaps the title of this thread "Sexual abuse in AA a serious problem" is just too tempting a morsel for anti AA's to take a nip at ......

Of course, that's what we like to do, we 'anti-AA's'... *rolls eyes* Seriously now...I think I've even said that those things like sexual abuse happen everywhere, whether it's '13 stepping' in AA or 'cybersex' in the SMART Recovery chatroom. Also following another way than AA/NA to remain sober/clean does not mean I'm anti AA, it's just not for me, period.

[splendra]

I have been to alot of 12 step meetings AA NA Alanon Naranon all are on my list. I have found that some meetings are more of a "meet" er or "meat " market. The first meeting I went to was like that and unfortunatly I did not go back to a 12 step meeting for many years.

I have found the the larger meetings have more potiental to have 13th steppers than the smaller groups. I like to go to meetings that focus on the steps. The big speaker meetings seem to be popular with the people who are being forced to go to meetings by the courts. The meetings that focus on the 12 steps seem to have people who are interested in getting well. Let's face it people who are being forced to go to a meeting are more likely to be playing games and flirting is one way to divert the focus of recovery.

People and their sexuality are complicated and mix that up with forced recovery tactics of the courts and a meeting has the potiental to be more like going to a singles bar than group therapy.

I am pretty sure that some of the larger groups do have people who are aware of the problem of 13th stepping and maybe some of them are starting to address the problem in their meetings I do not know. My sponcer says that they are trying to bring up this issue in group consciousness meetings. But the wheels are turning slow because it is a big machine and lots of minds are still not focused on recovery. I do not attend the group consiousness meeting of the larger meetings and the smaller ones that I go to don't sseem to have these kinds of issues to deal with so I do know how this issue is being dealt with. I deal with it by not going to the larger meetings where the focus seems to be on playing games and getting laid...I feel bad for a newbie that wants help and attends one of the game playing meetings and does not find out that there are other types of meetings out there.

I am glad my head is clear enough to watch out for myself and also that my focus is not on finding someone new to ease my pain. There are a lot of people that jump from the fire into the frying pan. For some it takes a lot to realize that the "someone" they are looking for is themselves. May you find that you are who you need if you do not already know it.

[Music]

Don't know if anyone has bothered to check, but the idiot that started this thread hasn't been seen nor heard from since the first 4 or 5 posts, and we're still talking about it. Talk about flaming!!

I just PMd levi and told him that with the amount of media spin this subject gets day to day, nobody can claim ignorance. I've known many thought who could and should claim stupidity. My primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. In doing that, I take it upon myself to inform new people about 13th stepping. It's not my job, nor my responsibility to go on a campaign to "save" people from sexual preditors. Hell, truth be known, there are few qualified drunks who haven't been sexual preditors at one time or another. That kind of behavior is supposed to change when we start working the 12 steps. Some change and some don't and believe me, the ones who don't, stick out like a smelly outhouse in the fog. Nuf said from here.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by BSPGirl

Of course, that's what we like to do, we 'anti-AA's'... *rolls eyes* Seriously now...I think I've even said that those things like sexual abuse happen everywhere, whether it's '13 stepping' in AA or 'cybersex' in the SMART Recovery chatroom. Also following another way than AA/NA to remain sober/clean does not mean I'm anti AA, it's just not for me, period.

I did not think you were anti AA BSP.

My point is that with a title such as the above mentioned, this redundant thread may go on "ad infinitum"

[BSPGirl]

Originally Posted by Peter

I did not think you were anti AA BSP.

My point is that with a title such as the above mentioned, this redundant thread may go on "ad infinitum"

My apologies, Peter, I read it like a sneaky attack at the ppl posting at this thread like they were all 'anti AA'.

[Taiman]

The issue isn't about sexual energy or consensual sex or dating in AA. It is about sexual assault including rape. When the Police launch an investigation into something like this it is a serious problem. If an organisations knows there is a problem with a sexual assault in their organization and they do nothing to address it, they are both morally and legally liable.

If I found out there was a problem with sexual assault in my company, my church, or any organization I was involved with, I would have a reaction. My first reaction would be disgust, my second concern, my third action. I would want to develop a comprehensive program to address the problem. The police wouldn't have to come to me I would come to them.

I think it is morally reprehensible to defend an organisation who sticks its head in the sand when its members are being raped . Being a supporter of an organization shouldn't make you blind to its faults. The Catholic church didn't address the problem until it was too late. The cost to them has been enormous both in terms of lawsuits and people who left the church (taking their wallets with them).

I, along with others, personally walked in on a girl being assaulted in AA meeting. When other members saw what was going on, some of them tried to spirit the man committing the assaulted away. The tried to convince the girl not to call the Police and that it was best dealt with internally. I called the Police and helped the girl report the crime. When the Police came, witnesses claimed they saw nothing. Days later people in AA called the girl up to try and get to recant her report to the Police. They asked what her part was in the assault (blame the victim).

The guy who assaulted her continued to go to meetings that he knew the girl was at, despite having a restraining order on him at the time. Each time members told me to let it go and turn it over. Luckily I didn't, I called the Police and he was re-arrested for violating his restraining order. He was convicted of the assault and it turned out he had been convicted of sexual assault in the past.

In the 90's (it was 95 or 96 I think) the main conference speaker at the AA's Ontario Regional Conference was arrested on the Friday night for sexual assault and it was hushed up by AA in Toronto. He didn't get a chance to convey his experience, strength and hope that weekend, only his sickness.

I tried to address the issue of sexual assault in AA in Toronto at the time. I talked to people on the ORC committee, Intergroup and General Service, all to no avail. I was privy to 2 instances personally and had heard of 100's more. Considering the Toronto Police had arrived on the Conference doorstep, I thought we should address the issue to protect our members. Very few people were interested in even talking about it, never mind doing anything about it. Those people who did think it was a problem told me that unfortunately I was wasting my time and that nothing would be done about it.

Personally people who commit sexual assault disgust me, as do those who defend them.

[Clark]

As a sign of my commitment to spiritual growth and a better me, I am not posting what I was going to post to taiman about what he can do with all his disgust.

[Music]

Originally Posted by Clark

As a sign of my commitment to spiritual growth and a better me, I am not posting what I was going to post to taiman about what he can do with all his disgust.

Well Clark, you're a better man than I. Taiman, you disgust me!! Why don't you take your biased retoric somewhere else? You've shown no proof that what you say is true, and personally, I wouldn't trust you or what you say as far as I could throw a ton of Big Books. You obviously have an ax to grind and the way you're doing it here disgusts me.

[Justme57]

LOL@ Music ! I agree , but was restraining myself!!!!

Great post clark, !

HUGX
Lee

[Music]

Originally Posted by Justme57

LOL@ Music ! I agree , but was restraining myself!!!!

Great post clark, !

HUGX
Lee

Well Lee, that just proves that I still have room for growth.