karlofthenorth

My name is Karl, the following is an editorial from the Anchorage Daily News Monday April 17th, 2006. I want to respond to this guy because I think he is clueless but I could use some input please. I have been clean and sober just over 5 months and could use a little "ammunition" for my editorial reply. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you. karlofthenorth






Calling alcoholism a disease only distances a drinker from problem

Regarding Bernadette Bradley's take on alcoholism ("Prohibiting alcoholics from buying alcohol inflicts needless shame," March 28), I find it interesting the fact that she believes that "trying to recover" is OK. You either drink or you don't, you either have a history of DUI, emotional, economic and physical consequences from the "choice" to use alcohol, or not. There is no gray area for people who have had such consequences.

The proposal by Mayor Mark Begich, which I agree with, addresses the simple fact that Alcoholics Anonymous and the treatment industry have a dismal failure record. Because if more people wanted to get sober they actually would. Alcoholism is a choice, plain and simple. Calling it a disease only distances the problem drinker from owning his or her drunken behavior.

---- Michael Bishop

Girdwood

CarolD

Hi l Karl...
I think it is pointless to refute anothers opinons
The disease debate has gone on for years

Remember our AA Traditions

Ten—Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.



Congratulations on your sober time....

jimhere

I agree with Carol. It's a no win situation. And you certainly. will not help the cause. Bill Wilson wrote an article in The Grapevine about a similiar situation. He said the best defense was no defense at all.
Jim

Five

I think Bill Wilson would have agreed with this guy. Bill Wilson never said alcoholisim was a disease - he said it was a moral, spiritual problem...and bar the spiritual part, I think he was pretty close.

fritolay

Alcoholism could only be argued as a disease for those few who are born with the gene. Diseases are things that afflict us, without our consent, like cancer, heart disease, and diabetes. Most alcoholics do not have the alcoholic gene, and therefore use the "it's a disease" rational to trivialize their own behavior, and justify their bad choices. Alcohol is no more a disease than smoking cigarettes--both are addicting, but the user makes the ultimate choice to abuse them. If people need to tell themselves their drunken stupors are a disease in order to seek recovery, that's fine with me... I just hope they don't expect everyone else to toe that line. I also don't believe that the choice to drink alcohol is necessarily a moral or spiritual issue, either. If you're responsible when you get loaded, and you don't hurt others with your problem, then the issue of morality is hardly relevant.

historyteach

Hmmm....well, cancer -- smoking or poor diet causes that.
Heart disease -- smoking, diet and lack of exercise causes that.
Diabetes -- again, diet, lack of exercise and yes, even smoking!
Each one of these diseases requires our consent....

Karl, many people are upset over the disease model. In fact, many use the dis-ease model as a result. Semantics? I don't know; nor do I care honestly. I personally accept the disease model, having dealt with an alcoholic ex b/f -- now dead from the disease. And I do NOT accept that people choose to do what he did to himself. Perhaps he choose to pick up the first drink, but, that was definately the end of *his* choices. But, because I accept that model, doesn't mean everyone else will. But, until proved otherwise, I accept the AMA diagnoses. It's a disease.

Since I know where these discussions go, this is the last I will contribute to this thread. Expect a ride, Karl!

Bottom line, though, I agree with Carol!

Shalom!

equus

Tell him to read his ******* dictionary!

Disease is NOT defined by intent.
Disease is NOT defined by success of recovery.
Disease is NOT defined by a global inability to use free will.

Diseases from cerebal palsy, autism etc to heart complaints can be treated behaviourally. Most illness and disease is infinitely easier to treat if the patient is an ACTIVE participant.

Just one time - I'd like to see this 'debate' at least loosely connected to what the ruddy word means in the first place!

fritolay

You are wrong, and here's why. Alcholism is the only "disease" where the cure is to stop drinking. That's a choice. Alcoholism is the only "disease" where the disease is the behavior! Think about it. Smoking is a behavior, and it *MAY* cause lung cancer after many years, but smoking itself is not a disease, it's a choice. Similarly, eating high fat foods for your entire life might lead to heart disease, but eating fattening foods is not the disease. In that same fashion, drinking heavily for many years might lead to liver disease, but drinking itself is NOT a disease, it's a behavior. Behaviors are choices people make.

equus

Uhmmm.. Annorexia? Tourettes? Bulimia? Obesity? OCD? I could go on if you want. Please at least look the word up in the dictionary.

Well drinking itself isn't a disease for the vast majority of drinkers - most don't become addicted. The diagnostic criteria for alcohol abuse and dependency is nowhere near as simple as just drinking.

laurenlanai25

we refrain from the debating society, that is what it tells us!

Music

Disease? Not a disease! Chicken? Egg?? God? No God?? Who the hell cares? If alcoholism isn't a disease, it's certainly a dis-ease! Quit trying to pick the fly poop out of the pepper. If drinking is a problem, stop drinking. Jesus, if someone came up to you and said they rode a merry-go-round until they puked, got back on and rode it again until they puked, ad nauseum, wouldn't the best advice be to stay off the damn merry-go-round? Maybe merry-go-round riding is a disease. Who knows? Who cares? If you can't stay off the merry-go-round, or stop drinking on your own, get help. People who argue whether or not alcoholism is a disease, are fighting a losing battle. The AMA says it is so go argue with the AMA. All I know or care about is that I can't drink responsibly. Never did, never will. Calling myself an alcoholic is my choice, and gives some validity to the problems I had when I drank. Doesn't excuse my behavior, nor trivialise my behavior. I've run out of excuses, and I don't behave that way any more. Problem solved.

inlandza

Every one is intitled to their own opinion read your BB and then go head to head with the writer of the artical as in most closings"These are our own opions and anthing that can not be reconciled with the Big Book is of the opion of the speaker" If using this you find the answer then take him on
My own opion ,this is a Disease and the only cure is to stop drinking. And get hepl to change lifestyle habbits

BigSis

Music, now THAT is funny!

I have a very selfish reason for leaning toward the disease model.

I am an alanonic alcoholic. I had already stopped drinking (for 20 years) when I got to 12-step, so it didn't matter to my OWN drinking, but whether it is or isn't a disease was important to me as an alanon.

The genetic predisposition to the condition helped me feel less guilty when both my children developed addiction. It also made the most logical sense. In my family, the alcoholism rate (out to second cousins) is greater than 90%. In my husband's family, it is higher than 50%.

Once I encountered information on the genetic predisposition, I was no longer "surprised" by the fact that all our efforts to "break the cycle" had failed.

Our kids were not bad, they did what normal teens did... they took a drink once out of curiousity.

NoMoBeer

I happen to believe the AMA that alcoholism is a disease, but historyteach I have to disagree with your quote above.

There are plenty of folks who get lung cancer who have never smoked (Dana Reeves comes to mind), folks who get heart disease and die from it who lead a healthy lifestyle (runner Jim Fixx comes to mind), and most of all, PLENTY of folks who have Diabetes who did not ask for it (my 2 children come to mind)...

Please be mindful of what you say.

I also agree with Carol -- Tradition 10.

Ken

karlofthenorth

THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR INPUT. CarolD}, you said it best and that is a good reason why I came here. I will refrain from bringing AA into public controversy. I appreciate all you people have had to say, I have learned something today. Have a great day!!! Karl

2stop

Disease..disorder.....behavioral problem...............doesn't really matter what the he$$ some one calls it to me................

It only matters you treat it........get intervention.

ANY disease I have/get/acquire.....treatment BEGINS with ME.....the treatment of it is what matters most ya know?
Many many health problems/disease ARE directly linked to what we eat and DO........diseases are linked to genetics, environmental factors..........social factors.on an don we can go about what it is called...........but

KILLER

comes to mind as a real good name for it..................seek help for it whatever you wanna name it!!

okay....I added my two cents worth....sorry.........

BSPGirl

I never cared much for the whole behavior/disease debate but I do think labeling it a disease kinda leads to 'oh it's something I can't help, I'm powerless over it, like I wouldn't be able to help the fact I'd get cancer either' while the behavior route makes it your own responsibility, scary but you learn a lot from that, imo then. Just my $0.02 tho and anything that helps ppl getting sober, I encourage.

earlybird

Ya know why I think alcoholism IS a disease? Because at the end,..I WANTED to quit, but I could not. I WANTED to stop,...but I didnt know how. My heart stopped in the ER,...but I drank again. I drank a fifth of cheap whiskey inside a dumpster while tears rolled down my face. At the end, I never wanted to STOP doing anything more in my life,....but I could not. You call it a choice? Choice my a55. I challenge anyone to pretend they dont know what I mean.

2stop

There are diseases that are curable you know................

2stop

The only way I stopped drinking/drugging was from MY CHOICE to do so.......without my consent I can not do anything.........maybe I am just weird..............been told that few times! LOL......

It was MY choice to google in sobriety sites......found SR....it was MY choice not to fill any more scripts, buy any alcohol..it was MY choice to meditate, pray......eat well, exercise........apologize to loved ones...........every morning I am sober it is a choice the way I live it..........