James Frey Breaks the Rules

[Five]

Originally Posted by Mogqua

Well, after reading numerous reviews on a few sites about this book, I have to say I wouldn't waste my time.

The general concenus is that it is "400 pages of raged filled fantasy, egotistical and poorly written."
Most found it tedious and unbelievable.
A couple good reviews but most were laughing at its ridiculousness.

This, along with what I see as obvious contradictions in his logic leads me to believe that reading about his predominate problem with very little solution would not even prove to be good as a cathardic venture.

I should like to suggest finding books that center more on the solution and less on a "Look at me, I won't listen to anyone" problem personality.

Just my opinion, but I won't waste the money or time on it.

Thanks for inspiring me to check it out 51Anna.

Be Well

Welcome to the unwelcoming world of 12 step fundamentalisim folks.

[findingout]

Originally Posted by BubbaBob

...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS.

Now that does not sound like an easier, softer way to me, but I have to admit that I've never actually tried it

I have to agree that any program that works for an individual is program that individual should be working. Isn't that the point behind the often asked question "So how is your program working for you?"

One Love, One Heart,
Tony

[Five]

Originally Posted by findingout

Now that does not sound like an easier, softer way to me, but I have to admit that I've never actually tried it

I have to agree that any program that works for an individual is program that individual should be working. Isn't that the point behind the often asked question "So how is your program working for you?"

One Love, One Heart,
Tony

A point, thankfully, asked only by AA members. I am thankful that I have no friends who are patronising enough to ask me "how my programme is working for me".

[findingout]

Originally Posted by Five

A point, thankfully, asked only by AA members. I am thankful that I have no friends who are patronising enough to ask me "how my programme is working for me".

Actually, I consider myself quite lucky to have many people both inside and outside A.A. and N.A. who care enough about me to ask how my life is going and really be interested in my response. This was not always the case. However, I do not make a distinction between my "program" and my life and I don't live my life to satisfy the expectations of others. It is very much my life, my program if you must, and my spiritual, mental, and physical well being which is at stake.

All of us do the best we can with what we have available and I truly appreciate when anyone shares what works for them because I certainly didn't get where I am today all by myself.

One Love, One Heart,
Tony

[Mogqua]

Originally Posted by BubbaBob

(and there IS a program, though unconventional)

It also helps family members that simply either don't have a clue, or that try to understand, but can't.

...but I have said before that any program, including standing on your head with your finger in your ear while farting "Dixie" for an hour a day, is fine if it WORKS. His obviously does, for him.

BubbaBob

I actually see his 'program' as quite conventional and very common.
Much like many beginning fourth steps I've read.
Just as lenghty and just as angry.
Although it lacks clarity.
His attempts at "unringing that bell" of going to a rehab rings ever louder.
A letigious logic sees it for what it is and isn't and tells the observer that everything else from that point on is an emotional opinion with no factual basis.

But on these other two points I agree with you.
I noticed that the best reviews were written by 'codies' seeking the vicarious experience and that is something.
Since I don't need vicarious experiences of this type I would be in the group of "been there, done that, no need to go back."

I also agree that ANY program you work will work if you want it to work.

And about him helping more than any of us?
That really can't be known, now can it?
There is no real way to find out either.

Now two books I keep hearing over and over that have seemed to help many more are:

"A New Pair of Glasses" By Chuck C.
(AA member) of which I have read and don't necessarily agree whole-heartedly with, but still a good read.

AND:

"Drinking: A Love Story" By Caroline Knapp
(A non AA member) of which I have only read many excerpts and found them to be insightful and well written.
I will eventually buy that book.

~~~~~~~~~~
To those that feel "patonized and threatened," you will have to take responsibilty for your own feelings and stop blaming others for them.

When viewed objectively I am considered by most as pro-logic and pro-recovery, regardless of method.
Not a fundamentalist to any per se.

Bitter or better is a choice. Your choice.

But y'all keep coming back and in the meen time,
think it through,
think beyond,
and...

Be Well.

[minnie]

I actually see his 'program' as quite conventional and very common.
Much like many beginning fourth steps I've read.
Just as lenghty and just as angry.
Although it lacks clarity.

I thought you hadn't read his book?

[Don S]

LOL @ Minnie! No, Mogqua hasn't read his book, he's just read reviews of it. Evidently that's all he needs.
Don

[Mogqua]

Originally Posted by minnie

I thought you hadn't read his book?

Focus minnie.
And re-read the entire post.
~
Remember that most here have not read it or very little of it and we were asked to comment on what was posted.
At least I took the time to do some research on it which is more than can be said of others that haven't even read as much as the reviews to form an opinion.

LOL Don!
Evidently you don't even need that.

Be Well

[minnie]

How on earth can you say that his program lacks clarity? It may or may not - I can't say as I have not yet read his book. Perhaps it is the reviewers that lack clarity or understanding.

You call that reasearch? Blimey, I hope you aren't looking for a cure for cancer in your day job.

[Dan]

Blimey, I hope you aren't looking for a cure for cancer in your day job.


To qualify another alcoholic's or addict's program, in any circumstance, is a clear and profound sign of one's own discomfort at best.
And just bad PR at worst.

[Mogqua]

I never said his program lacks clarity.
I again congratualate him on his clean time.
His program (as presented here in the first post) is quite conventional.

I tend to stay away from software with bad reviews too.
It's not worth wasting time on it until they get overwhelmingly good reviews.

And equally, this thread is no longer worth wasting any time on either.

Read this book or the other others I mentioned earlier.

Or don't read at all, it's up to you.

Be Well

[minnie]

I actually see his 'program' as quite conventional and very common.
Much like many beginning fourth steps I've read.
Just as lenghty and just as angry.
Although it lacks clarity.

Must be my eyes that suffer from the lack of clarity then. Good job I'm off to the optician this week.

You know, one thing AA has taught me is not to have contempt prior to investigation.

[Mogqua]

Originally Posted by minnie

Must be my eyes that suffer...

Must be.
Since I didn't say his program lacks clarity
What else could it be?

Uh - his fourth step of anger which he is still unaware that he did.

The optician can't change that type of perception.

I earnestly wish you well.

[Don S]

Nah, there's really no other way to read what you wrote, Mogqua. You can change the meaning now, if you want to backpedal. But that's what you're doing, and it doesn't really matter in terms of changing your meaning:
It (his program) is like many Fourth Steps you've read, in that it is lengthy, angry, and lacks clarity.
That means: his program lacks clarity. That's what you said.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by Mogqua

...At least I took the time to do some research on it which is more than can be said of others that haven't even read as much as the reviews to form an opinion.

LOL Don!
Evidently you don't even need that.

Be Well

The reviews I've read have been mostly* positive.

"James Frey has written the War and Peace of addiction. It lends new meaning to the word 'harrowing' and one sometimes shudders to read it. But deep down, beneath all the layers and the masks, there lives something unconquerable in Frey's hurt spirit... And the writing, the writing, the writing."
***PAT CONROY


"A Million Little Pieces is as intense and perfectly detailed an account of a human quitting his drug and alcohol dependency as you are likely to read. And James Frey is horribly honest and funny in a young-guard Eggers and Wallace sort of way, but perhaps more contained and measured. He is unerring in his descent into a world where the characters need help in such extremely desperate ways. Read this immediately."
***GUS VAN SANT


"A Million Little Pieces is this generation's most comprehensive book about addiction: a heartbreaking memoir defined by its youthful tone and poetic honesty. Beneath the brutality of James Frey's painful process of growing up, there are simple gestures of kindness that will reduce even the most jaded to tears. Very few books earn those tears—this one does. It will have you sobbing, laughing, angry, frustrated, and most importantly, hopeful. A Million Little Pieces is inspirational and essential. A remarkable performance."
***BRET EASTON ELLIS

(*edited to change, now that I've read a couple of negative ones.)

[Dan]

If it walks like clarity and it quacks like clarity, then it's clarity

[FaeryQueen]

He has gotten through this by:

1) letting go of his fear - he says what he did to himself is far worse than anything anyone could do to him.

2) by 'holding on' - when things are bad, they won't stay that way and you will feel better

I'd love to hear people's comments on this!

I may need some glasses too....but I read something about hearing comments about using the above method to stay sober.....I didn't read anything about a homework assignment to be completed before commenting.

As far as I can tell, that is what Mogqua is doing....commenting. Commenting that letting go of fear is only the beginning of an incredibly vast realm of what one can attain in recovery....the possibilities are endless and the depth of recovery is unmeasurable.

I think it is silly the way posters have jumped on his comments with petty fault-finding and play on semantics.

Mogqua I think you must be on to something.
Your inability to get ruffled under fire is impressive....KUDOS!

[Dan]

Mogqua is actually an ancient aramaic word that translates to coolness under pressure

[FaeryQueen]

Mogqua is actually an ancient aramaic word that translates to coolness under pressure

Baaahhaaahaaa!!! It certainly fits!

[Don S]

Let's see: 615 reviews on amazon.com
1 star: 8%
2 stars: 5%
3 stars: 6%
4 stars: 13.5%
5 stars: 67.5%

I'm not sure I agree with your statement:

The general concenus is that it is "400 pages of raged filled fantasy, egotistical and poorly written."
Most found it tedious and unbelievable.
A couple good reviews but most were laughing at its ridiculousness.

But I'm not a statistician.

Don

[Dan]

I still think Mog's statement about clarity walks like a duck, though.
Semantics or not, the way I perceive the english language can't be that much off the lexicographic track

[FaeryQueen]

But I'm not a statistician.

Coulda' fooled me....but I am quite gulliable...


BTW Don,

Have you read the Big Book thru from cover to cover?

I bet you have.

You don't stike me as the sort of fella who would try and rip it apart like you do without having done your homework.

But then again.

[Dan]

Oh good.
The have you read the big book question to Don...
This is always entertaining

[FaeryQueen]

I still think Mog's statement about clarity walks like a duck, though.
Semantics or not, the way I perceive the english language can't be that much off the lexicographic track

Again. Taking one word, one concept, and dismissing the entire opinion as erroneous is SILLY. Anyway I don't think an opinion can be erroneous....since it is just an opinion.....oh I'm confused again...

:slaphead

Silly boy.

[2dayzmuse]