James Frey Breaks the Rules

[Five]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I am about half-way through the book. I just came here and found this thread, and I don't know how many threads might be related to this, but this was the most recent so it is the one I am responding to.

The first part is sick and sad and amazingly had the reverse effect on me than it should have. It made me want to drink, and I did, and the whole time I am drinking it makes me hate myself, but I think I want and need to hate myself. And I want to drink as much as I want to NOT drink.

My mother gave me the book because she gives me books all the time. After she gave it to me I saw the Oprah show. I never even watch Oprah, and I don't particularly like her because I think she is such a hypocrite. I forgot I even had the book; I hadn't looked through the ones my mother had given me most recently. I don't think she put any emphasis on it. To her I am Healed. I went through rehab and she hasn't seen me drunk and she believes I am better.

Are we ever Better? I keep going through phases. I am good; I am not good; I am an alcoholic; I am anorexic; I cut myself; I don't care about myself; I need to care enough about life because I have obligations; I have to take care of my animals; I can't hurt my family; my sister is pregnant; I can probably never have a child and I want one but I shouldn't have one; I am scared all the time; I am starting a new job on monday; I should kill myself; I can't kill myself; I have obligations; I am going to die anyway; I can make it so simple; I can starve to death and it will look like an accident; no one will know; I am ashamed of everything I do or don't do; I need to go to work on Monday; I have a new job; I have to stop drinking; I have to be a better person but I don't know how or why; I want to help people but I can't help myself; I hate hurting and I hate hurting other people even more and that's why I sometimes think I should stop living, but I don't want to stop and I want to be better; I want to be normal, whatever that is... I don't know anymore. I just want things to stop hurting. I want to stop feeling so bad about myself. I want to stop worrying, but that means I have to stop caring, and I can't do that and don't want to do that.

I need to shut up. I have been drinking today and my plan is to stop drinking by Sunday. I hate myself and I hate myself for even writing that I hate myself. I want to be the person that I want to be. That doesn't make sense, does it? Is anyone reading this?

~me

IF your in the UK and want to talk to an alky who has had a rough as time as you then drop me an email and we could maybe swap numbers londonfields2001@yahoo.co.uk

[Five]

"I want to be the person that I want to be"

and that is entirely what recovery is all about, for me anyhow.

[Mogqua]

Originally Posted by 51anna

I'd also like to learn much more about the Tao Te Ching readings that brought James such clarity and comfort.

I had been reading the Tao texts for many many years when I first entered recovery via support groups. More intellectual than anything.
Just before I went back to using I bought a simpler book based on those texts that give me much more clarity and comfort, especially when I re-entered those support groups.
Super-imposing AA terms such as the group or sponsor where it says master reveals the principled truth above the actions of so many.
Through it I realized that "the world is screwed up for a reason, and trying to fix it just screws it up (and us) even more." (paraphrased)

I highly recommend it.

"Tao te Ching" by Stephen Mitchell.

In Wilson's letter to Jung, he mentions that many AA members had begun using the I Ching, and four days after I read that, without mentioning it to anyone, my neighbor felt compelled to buy a book for me.
He couldn't even explain why.
It was the the I Ching with commentaries by Bane.

Read on!

Be Well.

[jlo34]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Are we ever Better? I keep going through phases. I am good; I am not good; I am an alcoholic; I am anorexic; I cut myself; I don't care about myself; I need to care enough about life because I have obligations; I have to take care of my animals; I can't hurt my family; my sister is pregnant; I can probably never have a child and I want one but I shouldn't have one; I am scared all the time; I am starting a new job on monday; I should kill myself; I can't kill myself; I have obligations; I am going to die anyway; I can make it so simple; I can starve to death and it will look like an accident; no one will know; I am ashamed of everything I do or don't do; I need to go to work on Monday; I have a new job; I have to stop drinking; I have to be a better person but I don't know how or why; I want to help people but I can't help myself; I hate hurting and I hate hurting other people even more and that's why I sometimes think I should stop living, but I don't want to stop and I want to be better; I want to be normal, whatever that is... I don't know anymore. I just want things to stop hurting. I want to stop feeling so bad about myself. I want to stop worrying, but that means I have to stop caring, and I can't do that and don't want to do that.

I need to shut up. I have been drinking today and my plan is to stop drinking by Sunday. I hate myself and I hate myself for even writing that I hate myself. I want to be the person that I want to be. That doesn't make sense, does it? Is anyone reading this?

~me

Ashes,
Wow. I remember all that, Ashes. That is exactly the insanity of drinking and "using behavior". I have felt that way sober too. I know exactly how you are feeling. Been there so many times. Do me a favor, Ashes. Call someone, ANYONE to help you, today, now. You acknowledge that you need help - so keep reaching the hand out; someone near you can grab your hand and help you.

Don't give up before the miracle happens, Ashes. It may just be right around the corner - if you give up, you'll never know. Though you may not feel ok right now; you WILL be ok. This too shall pass.

I too, am sending prayers your way, lots of them. I started crying when I read what you wrote - it reminded me so much of where I've been. You don't have to be there anymore...

Please feel free to PM me, I will be away from my computer for a few hours...but will check in periodically.

Lots of blessings and prayers your way, Ashes,
Love,
Jen

[FaeryQueen]

Ashes.

I could have written your post a year ago. All those conflicting emotions and thoughts devouring me back then. Just waiting to die. Wanting to STOP but not being able to. Feeling so worthless.

It sounds like you are there, at the crossroads. You are reaching out. That is good. Something in you wants life desperately. Something in you wants to express itself. You are the person you dream of...already. You are just buried under all the guilt, fear, and shame.....you are in there. I promise you.

AA helped me shed the worn, tired, sick idea of myself and become the person I am....happy, joyous, and free.

All the love in the world,
Tanya

PM me if you like.

[lulu70]

((((((((((((((Ashes)))))))))))))))) I just finished reading this entire thread and had no idea what I would find near the end. Hang in there, hon'. IMHO--you are worthy of recovery, of being the person you want to be, simply because you are here (not SR, necessarily, but 'of the world'). It took a lot of courage for you to write what you did. I hope you can find a bit more courage and reach out to someone who can really help you RIGHT NOW. I am praying for you as well.

Lots of love and as much support as I can give--

[tinkertrain]

My ABF happened to be at my house when I opened the original thread up. He only saw the part of breaking all the rules. He's trying to convince me that he can heal himself. He will not accept that this believe has proven itself wrong more than once. If he can heal himself why am I here? He won't even recognize the severity of his addictive personality. I have accept my codependency and the factors that may be included with that, but his addictions change accordingly but have the same story. I am going to buy this book and the Codependent No More, I had hoped to share them with him. I know he's not ready for either of them since he basically said "See I can do it on my own".

[Irish Virus]

In a nutshell, what's the big deal about James Frey? I started reading this thread to find out, but I stopped after reading comments like Oprah impacts the world more than any book or program out there. That was good for laugh and that's about it.

Is Frey's book basically a drunk-a-log and how he did it? What is his big secret other than staring down a drink at a bar? If looking at a drink real good and asking yourself "do you want it" is revolutionary, my grandpa should have wrote a book on the subject and made millions. Basically, what does Frey have to offer to the table other than what has already been done before?

That's great he quit on his own evidently, but he ain't the first and won't be the last. Personally I don't see what the big deal is other than he was another helpless addict and drunk who recovered.

[BigSis]

Irish - for me the story was well told, and did not glorify his use. It also gave me, the mom of 2 addicts who have been through 4 rehabs in the past 18 months, an insight into rehab from the other side. It was like looking at the experience through a fun-house mirror. The events and process of inpatient treatment were all the same as those experienced by MY kids, but from the addicts POV, it looked all skewed to me.

Also, I full expected Frey to come out of the experience with a Higher Power intact and obviously working in his life. I have my opinions on that, but it differs from how he claims his recovery works. That reminds me that there are many paths to sobriety.

Additionally, I found him a good story-teller. I was not bored, the story moved along and the character development was good. And I don't think he ever claims to be someone "extra" special. Not all story tellers are good drunks and not all drunks tell good stories. He happens to combine both in a way that benefits him without taking anything that I can see away from anyone else. I would recommend the book to a friend.

[Paulie]

Personally I don't see what the big deal is other than he was another helpless addict and drunk who recovered.

That is a HUGE BIG DEAL to me. Be it James Frey or the person I see at a meeting that keeps coming back, it doesnt matter who or how as long as they find recovery. Again, that is a HUGE BIG DEAL to me!!!

[chris k]

Alcoholics and addicts {myself included} seem to want to make a big deal about doing what were should have been doing all along. thats my opinion, i could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Paulie

That is a HUGE BIG DEAL to me. Be it James Frey or the person I see at a meeting that keeps coming back, it doesnt matter who or how as long as they find recovery. Again, that is a HUGE BIG DEAL to me!!!

[Phinneas]

Originally Posted by chris k

Alcoholics and addicts {myself included} seem to want to make a big deal about doing what were should have been doing all along. thats my opinion, i could be wrong.

I respect your opinion, Chris.

My opinion is the opposite, I guess. I have a huge respect for this disease. This disease is trying to kill us and, unfortunatley sometimes does. My disease tried to kill me countless time. Those of us like James Frey and me and the rest of us who have gotten past that place of death and darkness and despair to live 24 hours at a time clean and sober are freakin' miracels. I stand up and applaud the beauty and strength and compassion of recovery.

A Million Little Pieces is a raw and compelling story of getting to that other side.

--phinny

[Don S]

As of today: #1 on the NY Times bestseller list of paperback nonfiction....fifth straight week on the list....

[Five]

Going to buy it at lunch today...

[Paulie]

Those of us like James Frey and me and the rest of us who have gotten past that place of death and darkness and despair to live 24 hours at a time clean and sober are freakin' miracels. I stand up and applaud the beauty and strength and compassion of recovery.

Ditto to that!!!

Alcoholics and addicts {myself included} seem to want to make a big deal about doing what were should have been doing all along. thats my opinion, i could be wrong.

Not that you are wrong, that is how you feel, your opinion and you have the right to that. And I have the right to feel what I feel, to have a different opinon....a gift I learned in recovery, everyone does not have to agree with me. But and even bigger gift I learned in recovery I have the right to feel what I feel and no one can tell me not to.

For me, I didnt know what I 'should have been doing' I learned that in recovery. I didnt/dont just learn tools not to use, I learn to tools to live life on lifes terms everyday. Recovery can be something actually MANY different things to all of us, that is the beauty of it.

Freakin' miracles....yep!!!

[Dan]

Could also be that for some of us, the contrast between being active and being sober is more striking, more shining, more inspiring, than anything we've ever lived and imagined, and we tend to shout it out loud every chance we get.

[Don S]

In behavioral approaches, 'should' is a dirty word.

[NoMoBeer]

I started to read this thread and saw some of the old "AA or No Way," and "AA sucks" patterns developing and decided to not read the rest.

I have not yet read the book, but my wife is reading it currently. I am hoping she will get some insight to my disease, if not from me then maybe from this dude. Last night she asked me if I ever had/have drinking dreams, where I wake up scared that I drank -- YES! God, I have woken up on a few occasions thinking about how I'm going to tell my sponsor I slipped! Then she said, "yeah, but this guy was really screwed up........" I explained that the DOC may be different, but all of us addicts/alcoholics go through the same thing. As my friend Johnny Lance says -- "same alley, different dumpster."

Bottom line is this, I don't care what program you use, just use one. I truly appreciate all the info and wisdom guys like Don S. bring to the board -- I choose to use AA as my program of choice, BUT -- I have to look for things which complement it. So I listen to the Zig Ziglar, Brian Tracy, Denis Waitley, Wayne Dyer stuff... but I have to see how that complements my 12 step program, not replace.... For others, psychology, SMART, etc. may work by themselves, but this alcoholic has found peace, serenity and SOBRIETY in AA -- I am not going to chance finding another way... but you won't find me condemning others for their choices. Live and Let Live.

BTW, I can't wait to read the book when my W is done with it!

Ken

[FaeryQueen]

Would anyone like a copy of the book?
I will ship it out if you want to pm your PO box or addy.

I started it, but just didn't see the point in reading it. God knows I have my own horror story and my sponsees do to....that is quite enough for me!

It is great the guy is clean and sober.

Lemme know!