James Frey Breaks the Rules

[Five]

The reason I was resitant to the idea of God is because if there is a God, then that pretty much explains everything.

[Five]

And again, I would like to link to the words of Berttie boy, a small headed maniac from the UK:

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/humf...l/agnostic.htm

[Five]

Originally Posted by Gooch

Good to see you Mil

I understand the perspective.

I felt guilty of being a bad example for a young kid who later wound up becoming and addict and still later dying of complications associated with the health related diseases his addiction gained him.

Doing the ammends thing, I approached him at a meeting and explained to him how I felt as thouhg I had been an influence on him and that i was sory for that.

He told me I never had that much power, that I was just a part of the path that he was allready choosing, and he thought it was incredible that I was still on the path he was choosing and we had both turned 180 degrees.

I didn't get him high anymore than I led him to recovery.

Our words shouldn't have the power to chase people away. When that happens to me I am giving my personal integrity up and assuming a victim mode, while in reality, I'm a victim of my own overreactions. It's taken a combination of compassionate bluntness to teach me this.

Doug - you never cease to...

...thanks

[FaeryQueen]

FQ - Is that really you in the picture? If so I'm sorry, I thought it was someone from american tv. I wasn't intending to be really offensive. equus

It's okay equus. I know I am not very attractive. I think that is why my hubby left me. Some tell me the makeup helps though. I tend to agree. I get the "hey you look like that crazy religious American TV lady" alot. It doesn't really offend me anymore.....sometimes I just go on and sign their Bibles.


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[FaeryQueen]

Looking good for 31 .... JaySee

Awwwe. Thanks JaySee. Twelve coats of foundation tends to cover well.

FQ ..

If I hadn't recently learned to accept personal responsibility. I might hold you accountable for the damage that picture did to my limbic region. Gooch

Gooch. You will never be the same...images of Tantric sex and Tammy Faye

Hey FQ,,

I was drawn to this thread, and was a bit angry in the beginning,,, believing you were taking the wrong approach,,in the beginning,, I was wrong,, You are
passionate in your beliefs,, I admire you very much for that, especially since you seem to be taking quite a beating here for your beliefs.. That I find wrong..
And I will probably take a beating with you, for agreeing with you..

But I agree with the things you have said so far.. You are completely correct in my opinion, in your beliefs..

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!! Hang in there and Keep defending what you believe..

Love,
Becky

lol. Thanks Becky. I'm a little beaten up and my mascara is running a bit....but I am hangin in there!
Peace and much Love
T

[FaeryQueen]

But my explanation of what is happening doesn't require one.
Don

Hah Hah. Okay Don.
Down here in Southeast Texas we like to put some ground venison in our chili. It adds an exotic flavor and a bit of coarseness.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[bartender129]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

It's okay equus. I know I am not very attractive. I think that is why my hubby left me. Some tell me the makeup helps though. I tend to agree. I get the "hey you look like that crazy religious American TV lady" alot. It doesn't really offend me anymore.....sometimes I just go on and sign their Bibles.


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LOL!



Here's your book dear, I've signed it:

Stomp out all the nonbelievers, love FaeryQueen

[FaeryQueen]

Oh Bartender.

You are quite funny......

Is that picture from your own personal stash of Tammy Faye paraphenalia and memorabilia? Is that a stain I see on the top right hand corner?

Oh it is so hard trying to be this spiritual....:sweat

[FaeryQueen]

For me my agnostic belief is this: there is only mystery. Mill

You sound like a natural mystic to me!

But since I read the article about agnosticism I am a bit clearer on the issue.

Some of my confusion about agnosticism comes from the literal translation of the word.

The word gnostic means: "complete comprehension that comes from both rational and intuited means." If I had to identify myself with a religion it would definitely be Gnosticism....which is an incredibly intelligent and mystical philosophy.

If you are a-gnostic then you rely on reason as your only means of knowledge. That seems so dry and disembodied. I understand more clearly now I suppose.

I think it is always dangerous, not to mention boring, to slap some label on yourself and then try and stay within the confines of that definition. Very claustrophobic.

It is better to just experience and know, leaving out that which insults your soul....if you have one....lol.

Thanks for the link.

[Dan]

I bought the book by Frey this morning.
Thought I'd mention that.
Just 'cause.

[Paulie]

LOL Dan!!!

[Dan]

It's got a lovely blueish color on the cover...
Two bucks off at Barnes and Crooked

[Jhana]

Well, that's it. There goes the neighborhood.

LOL,

[laurenlanai]

Sorry I didnt read through all the threads so if this has been said Sorry. Did you know that there is a sequal called My Friend Leonard? It was great. But after reading Jame's story it seems that he made it so difficult for himself in the beginning, cosntantly mind fing himself. I love both books and I loved him on Oprah too I am just glad that I have found my recovery in AA i give him credit I dont think I would be able to do what he did

[Five]

Originally Posted by FaeryQueen

Picture of me at an AA meeting

LoL. Upsetting.

[Five]

All this aside...just had a lovely beef and rocket sandwhich.

[Dan]

Well, I'm a couple hundred pages in.
What strikes me is the way he struggles with his absolute desire to not live the way he's lived anymore, wishing and fantasizing of his death, and his undeniable spirit. I see the whole dentist episode as a metaphor, really. He relished that pain. He deserved it, as if believing it could somehow cleanse him.
And in a sense, it just may have been the spark that revived his batteries.

[Phinneas]

This is how it has always been with me. Give me something good, I'll destroy it. Love me, I'll destroy you. I have never felt deserving of anything in my life. I have never felt as if I were worth the diseased space I occupy. This feeling has inhabited everything I've ever done, seen or had anything to do with, and it has infected every relationship I have ever had with everyone I've ever known. I don't understand it. I don't understand why it's here. I hate it as I hate myself.... -A Million Littel Pieces, James Frey, page 252

This is the best, most wrenching description of the inner addict that I have ever heard. It describes that addict within me, too, that is trying to kill me.

I am almost through with the book now, too, Dan. I agree with you about the metaphor for pain - punishment. I can relate to that, too. At times there have been an overwhelming need for punishment for not just being an addict, for just being. Another twisted voice of the disease, I think.

So, for my book report, I will add a couple of things that struck me.
1) The book is the best thing I have ever read for really getting inside the addicts mind. It feels, however, scripted to me. Kind of like the difference between a feature film and a documentary, I guess.

2) He does indeed find a spiritual... I don't want to call it a belief... a spiritual something, in the Tao Te Ching.

3) The methods he uses for staying sober are not related to AA in any way, IMO. Anyone who wants to debate that with me, I corgially invite you to read the book first.

This book is compelling and provocative. I will certainly say that.

--phinny

[bartender129]

Great report Phinny.
I read the book and really enjoyed it. I relate very much to the methods that James uses. The only thing that he does that is even remotely related to AA is his admission that he is an Alcoholic. Over and over in the book he says “I am an alcoholic and an addict and a criminal.� (he does this over and over in My Friend Leonard as well) In the book he makes a mockery of step one because he felt that it was so blatantly obvious that he is that he didn’t need some “program� to point it out to him. So he sorta did step one even though he thinks step one is bull.

[Ashes]

I am about half-way through the book. I just came here and found this thread, and I don't know how many threads might be related to this, but this was the most recent so it is the one I am responding to.

The first part is sick and sad and amazingly had the reverse effect on me than it should have. It made me want to drink, and I did, and the whole time I am drinking it makes me hate myself, but I think I want and need to hate myself. And I want to drink as much as I want to NOT drink.

My mother gave me the book because she gives me books all the time. After she gave it to me I saw the Oprah show. I never even watch Oprah, and I don't particularly like her because I think she is such a hypocrite. I forgot I even had the book; I hadn't looked through the ones my mother had given me most recently. I don't think she put any emphasis on it. To her I am Healed. I went through rehab and she hasn't seen me drunk and she believes I am better.

Are we ever Better? I keep going through phases. I am good; I am not good; I am an alcoholic; I am anorexic; I cut myself; I don't care about myself; I need to care enough about life because I have obligations; I have to take care of my animals; I can't hurt my family; my sister is pregnant; I can probably never have a child and I want one but I shouldn't have one; I am scared all the time; I am starting a new job on monday; I should kill myself; I can't kill myself; I have obligations; I am going to die anyway; I can make it so simple; I can starve to death and it will look like an accident; no one will know; I am ashamed of everything I do or don't do; I need to go to work on Monday; I have a new job; I have to stop drinking; I have to be a better person but I don't know how or why; I want to help people but I can't help myself; I hate hurting and I hate hurting other people even more and that's why I sometimes think I should stop living, but I don't want to stop and I want to be better; I want to be normal, whatever that is... I don't know anymore. I just want things to stop hurting. I want to stop feeling so bad about myself. I want to stop worrying, but that means I have to stop caring, and I can't do that and don't want to do that.

I need to shut up. I have been drinking today and my plan is to stop drinking by Sunday. I hate myself and I hate myself for even writing that I hate myself. I want to be the person that I want to be. That doesn't make sense, does it? Is anyone reading this?

~me

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I want to be the person that I want to be. That doesn't make sense, does it? Is anyone reading this?

Yep. Twice I read it.
Shutting up is probably the opposite of the best thing you can do for yourself.
Voicing it, writing it, getting it out of you.
Makes it easier to affect change to it.
Makes it easier to define what it is.

[j'ade d'arcy]

I really want to read this book and join in the discussion, however, it is sold out and not reprinted in Canada yet. Sold out in the entire country!!

[Anna]

These are great comments on this book and it's been great to read all your thoughts.

Ashes,

I am sorry that the book had a negative effect on you and I hope that you can turn around and use James' spirit to move you forward.

Phinny,

I love this book too. I finished it a couple of weeks ago and I still think about James daily.

One of the high points of his Oprah interview was that his mother was in the audience and gave her thoughts too. After reading the pain and anguish she felt for James' situation, it was comforting to see her beaming with pride.

I'd also like to learn much more about the Tao Te Ching readings that brought James such clarity and comfort.

[bartender129]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I need to shut up. I have been drinking today and my plan is to stop drinking by Sunday. I hate myself and I hate myself for even writing that I hate myself. I want to be the person that I want to be. That doesn't make sense, does it? Is anyone reading this?

~me

1.You don’t need to shut up. Talking about upsetting things is often helpful in making them not so upsetting.

2.By Sunday is a good plan. The rest of today and tomorrow is an even better plan.

3.Why do you hate yourself? You can’t change anything you have done in the past, but you can work for a better today and plan for a better tomorrow.

4.I want to be the person I want to be also. I get upset sometimes when it doesn’t come immediately or automatically. Personal change takes persistence, practice and patients. Be patient with yourself.

5.Makes perfect sense and these are thing many here have struggles with.

6.I am reading this. I care. Promise me something. Everytime you have the thought “I want to kill myself� reach out to someone.
1-800-784-2433
1-800-273-8255

[Five]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I am about half-way through the book. I just came here and found this thread, and I don't know how many threads might be related to this, but this was the most recent so it is the one I am responding to.

The first part is sick and sad and amazingly had the reverse effect on me than it should have. It made me want to drink, and I did, and the whole time I am drinking it makes me hate myself, but I think I want and need to hate myself. And I want to drink as much as I want to NOT drink.

My mother gave me the book because she gives me books all the time. After she gave it to me I saw the Oprah show. I never even watch Oprah, and I don't particularly like her because I think she is such a hypocrite. I forgot I even had the book; I hadn't looked through the ones my mother had given me most recently. I don't think she put any emphasis on it. To her I am Healed. I went through rehab and she hasn't seen me drunk and she believes I am better.

Are we ever Better? I keep going through phases. I am good; I am not good; I am an alcoholic; I am anorexic; I cut myself; I don't care about myself; I need to care enough about life because I have obligations; I have to take care of my animals; I can't hurt my family; my sister is pregnant; I can probably never have a child and I want one but I shouldn't have one; I am scared all the time; I am starting a new job on monday; I should kill myself; I can't kill myself; I have obligations; I am going to die anyway; I can make it so simple; I can starve to death and it will look like an accident; no one will know; I am ashamed of everything I do or don't do; I need to go to work on Monday; I have a new job; I have to stop drinking; I have to be a better person but I don't know how or why; I want to help people but I can't help myself; I hate hurting and I hate hurting other people even more and that's why I sometimes think I should stop living, but I don't want to stop and I want to be better; I want to be normal, whatever that is... I don't know anymore. I just want things to stop hurting. I want to stop feeling so bad about myself. I want to stop worrying, but that means I have to stop caring, and I can't do that and don't want to do that.

I need to shut up. I have been drinking today and my plan is to stop drinking by Sunday. I hate myself and I hate myself for even writing that I hate myself. I want to be the person that I want to be. That doesn't make sense, does it? Is anyone reading this?

~me

This touched me.

It really did.

I dont normally "send out prayers" but I suddenly want what ever it is that gives people hope and freedom to be headed your way.

If I could give you some advice it would be to share what your wrote here to someone who has been through it before.

Good luck, this really did touch me.