Question

[dfw_txs]

Two nights ago, I got incredibly sauced. I am talking an entire bottle of Vodka, plus beer. I started at noon, went until about 1am. One thing I notice is how flush my face was, and how red my nose was the next day. It literally looked like my nose was sunburned.

I hear drunks have a red nose, which makes me wonder if people knew I am a big drinker, even though I never get drunk around anyone I work with. A couple years ago, someone made a comment about how red my nose and cheeks were. I quickly said I worked out that morning and was still hot. He was an older guy in his late 50s, been around the block, and he just chuckled. I think he knew I was full of ****

What causes this redness, flushness? You may be able to conceal the act of drinking, but it sure shows physically

[michaelj]

DFW
I think you have the wrong site here. This place is for people who want to give up drinking and embrace sobriety. Here's the news, drink a bottle of vodka and your face goes red, end of newsflash.
Michael

[nocellphone]

...

[dfw_txs]

So asking a question about the effects of alcoholism is inappropriate? Wanting knowledge of this addiction and its effects is inappropiate? You think I am on this site Sunday morning doing a research project or something?

Here is a news flash. The forum is alcoholism which means anything related to alcoholism. It is not an AA forum

One thing is for certain: This is not the forum according to michaelj and what he wants to discuss. If you don't want to answer, don't respond. End of newsflash.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by dfw_txs

What causes this redness, flushness?

The alcohol.
It's just another way our bodies deal with the toxic levels of ethyl alcohol in our bloodstream I would think.
Much like that special kind of sweating.
I imagine I would have spontaneously exploded countless times if my body didn't have a means to dump some of the excess.

[splendra]

I think the redness is caused by broken capillaries...

[j'ade d'arcy]

I'm not one hundred percent sure as I am not a doctor, but I think I recall my counsellor telling me that eventually the redness will become permanent around the nose area due to blood vessel damage. Something about the skin being quite thin in that area and once they burst, that's it. Then you get the swollen red nose all the time, not just after a binge.

Don't quote me on this as I can't remember exactly.

[Autumn]

Broken capillaries makes sense to me. Since alcohol thins the blood, it would seem that it would eventually cause some erosion of the vascular system, capillaries being the most vulnerable since they are so tiny.

[phoenixn]

dfw_txs, you obviously found this website for a reason, and many people who come here are still in the grips of drinking. Clearly you are not particularly enjoying all of the aspects of your over-consumption, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to learn more about the physiological effects of alcohol on your body. We are here to share our experience, strength and hope with you. I wish you every success in your struggles, and it is my sincere hope that you will find a way out of this terrible illness. Also, keep in mind that your descriptions of the symptoms you are having can be a useful reminder of the nightmare that some of us have found a way to wake up from.

[dfw_txs]

Thanks for the replies - yes, I did find this website for a reason, to help quit for good!

In reference to the comment on the "special kind of sweating"....LOL! I know all about that too well. After a nice bender, I'd wake up and turn the air down to 65. Get my place like a meat cooler. Then as I was getting ready for work, I'd still sweat. On the way to work, air on high in the car, still sweat. Sitting in my office, not moving, still sweating.

I woke up this morning, after a night of diet cokes, AC on 75, no sweating. Funny how that works.

[AndrewBeen]

Welcome: we are glad you are here.

Ok, there are two conditions that we need to distinguish:

First, there is a disease called rosacea ( http://www.rosacea.org/ ) which creaties redness and swelling in the face (cheeks nose etc.). WC Fields had rosacea and was ALSO an alcoholic, thereafter confusing rosacea with alcoholism. Alcoholism does not cause rosacea. Surgery is necessary to correct the damange of long-term rosacea.

Drinking definitely causes redness also. This is due to vasodilation. The body needs to get rid of alcohol and its by product acetlaldeyde. What the liver can't keep up with the body needs to sweat out. The amount you drank definitely was more than your liver could handle. Note: many Asians can not break down alcohol with the livers at all and must sweat it all out!

I suppose if there is enough trauma to the capillaries in the face it could be permanent, but not to the extent of rosacea. Unlike rosacea, most of the redness will go away leaving a few broken capillaries I guess. If you drink like you have for a long time you probably will get more and more capillary damage.

To make matters even more confusing, alcohol and spicy foods can aggrevate rosacea but does not cause it per se. There is very little research out there on alcoholic capillary damange NOT caused by rosacea, at least that I can find. Sometimes these broken capillaries are called "spider veins".

As embarrassing as it may be, the redness in your face is NOT the biggest problem to your body. By the time you got considerable damange to your face, other more important organs will probably be damaged. The big problems are permanent tissue damage: liver damage leading to cirrosis and brain damage leading to dementia or Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome ( http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/000771.htm ) both of which would likely hasten a nightmarish death. Secondarily you run the risk of digestive problems (ulcers, etc.) and vascular issues like high blood pressure and stroke. These are the things that you should be worried about.

Your focus on the facial changes may indicate that you care most about the social stigma attached to alcoholism, and that certainly is something to aware of. However you might want to think more about what you are doing to yourself as opposed to how others see you.

Make no mistake: you are killing yourself and reducing the quality of life prior to your death. If you don't believe me, read some of the other threads on this board.

Good luck!

[Chy]

Often called the "Asian Flush".. more prominent in people with Asian backgrounds but not limited to that geneology.

Could be other things, but I'm betting to it's the alcohol.

Facial Flushing and Alcohol Use
Facial flushing can also be caused by alcohol use. Alcohol is one of the triggers of flushing in people with rosacea. Drinking alcohol and taking disulfiram (Antabuse) can also cause facial flushing. Finally, some people do not have one of the two types of aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes required to metabolize alcohol in the liver. In the Asian population, 50% lack the proper enzymes, and in one study 20% to 30% of Caucasian medical students did not have both enzymes. Having a deficiency of one of these enzymes causes a build-up of acetaldehyde in the body causing flushing and an increased heart rate. This flushing response can be blocked by taking aspirin or antihistamines

[fraankie]

lots of good posts
i heard about the blood vessel breakage, too
but
a bottle of vodka
it's kinda of weird
you are concerned about a red nose
and
not the liver, stomach, etc. damage
not to mention the hangover

but
keep posting
better to post
than not to post
and
read other posts
you will be enlightened

finally, whatever is said here
see a doctor

best
fraankie

[michaelj]

DFW,
Just got back on line and read the posts above. The good people here have given you chapter and verse on why your nose gets red through drinking alcohol.
My original response to your question was somewhat trite because I saw nothing in the post seeking help. reassurance or advice on how to quit or stay sober. To me the question was one of cosmetics and not one aimed at recovery. As far as I could see from the riginal post you were still drinking but I see from your subsequent responses that you have quit and I wish you every success in that.
You are absolutely right to say that this is not the forum according to michaelj but I do reserve the absolute right as a member to voice my opinion and I fully intend to continue to do so. If I choose to answer a thread, I will. If I choose to post a thread, I will. If I get criticised I will deal with it and respond in a way that I see fit. It's all a bit like alcoholism and sobriety. All about the individual and his / her right to choose.
Oh and by the way, I am not a member of AA.
Michael

[dfw_txs]

I hear you michaelj, its a free country, respond as you see fit. Not every post has to be about recovery though, or seeking help. There is a post here on football. Its not doing anyone any harm.

If I have a question related to alcoholism, I am going to ask it. If you feel it necessary to give a trite response, I'll just ignore it in the future. That way neither of us has to waste time resonding back and forth.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by splendra

I think the redness is caused by broken capillaries...

Swollen capuccinos?
Oh, capillaries, I get it now.

I dunno.
I swallowed plutonium grade amounts of vodka over a period of a week when I last drank. Aside for the need for twenty showers a day, I didn't notice any redness really.
Then again, that may have had something to do with my vision at the time...

Goes to show we're all different, even though we share similarities.

[Pick-a-name]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

The alcohol.
It's just another way our bodies deal with the toxic levels of ethyl alcohol in our bloodstream I would think.
Much like that special kind of sweating.
I imagine I would have spontaneously exploded countless times if my body didn't have a means to dump some of the excess.

I was going to mention that. Once you smell that smell of alcohol sweating out of someone's pores (UGH!) it's hard for it to remain a "secret" about their drinking. I never knew what that particular smell was until my husband progressed in his disease. He,too; is a "closet alcoholic"; most of his co-workers (he is the boss!) would be shocked to hear, and probably wouldn't even believe it, because he can still "control" his behavior at the office..I think. Maybe not; his temper seems to be shorter, there lately,too.

I now notice "that smell" from time to time on people walking by, in crowds, etc. Anyone who knows an alcoholic well, knows your "secret" after a night like you describe. Eventually, everyone will, if you keep it up.......it is only a matter of time. At a certain point,I think you are only fooling yourself. Hope you don't decide to wait that long!

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by dfw_txs

I hear drunks have a red nose, which makes me wonder if people knew I am a big drinker, even though I never get drunk around anyone I work with.

Uh,...yeah,....if people dont know you're a huge drunk because of THAT,..then they do because of something else. Trust me, they know. And, yes, this IS blood vessel damage. I dont know how old you are, but, if you are old enough to remeber who W.C. Fields was, he was a HUUUUGE alcoholic and thats why his big nose was always beet red and his cheeks flush. Boris Yeltsin is a huge alcky too.....look at his face. I agree with what was said here earlier. The red nose and cheeks are the least of your worries. By the time you get to the point where you have that blood vessel damage that makes your nose and cheeks red, you HAVE become physically dependant on alcohol. You may be thinking "No,...I can go to work all day and not NEED booze" Thats not what I mean. What I mean is, is that your body now views alcohol as an internal organ. An internal organ it needs to function properly. This is because you have introduced alcohol into your system and kept a steady flow of it in there ever since. Your neurotransmitters (these regulate euphoria, calmness, and general pleasure or relaxation feelings) stop firing in your brain once the brain notices that booze is supplying the relaxation instead of the transmitters. You can drink alot on a given night,....sleep, ....then go to work all day the next day and feel fine,....thats because your body still has alcohol in its bloodstream to get you through that day. Ever notice how your hands get a little shaky close to the end of your workday? Thats your body slightly withdrawing from lack of booze. Yup. If you decide to ever quit cold turkey,...you're in trouble. If you suddenly stop drinking, your brain doesnt know this right away, so it still isnt firing neurotransmitters. This usually takes about 3 to 7 days after you quit. Thats usually how long it takes for the body to expel all the alcohol out of its system,...then the withdrawal starts....it can be very horrifying. Last usually about 4 days. Thats when the brain finally starts firing these transmitters again. If this happens to you....seek medical help. Your case,......you WILL have delirium tremens for sure. Most people who try and get through severe withdrawal from alcohol,.. die. 1 out of 33 people die from it. Thats worse than withdrawal statistics from herione. 1 out of 1000 people die from herione withdrawal. Alcohol is the worst substance you can put into your body.

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

Swollen capuccinos?
Oh, capillaries, I get it now.

I dunno.
I swallowed plutonium grade amounts of vodka over a period of a week when I last drank. Aside for the need for twenty showers a day, I didn't notice any redness really.
Then again, that may have had something to do with my vision at the time...

Goes to show we're all different, even though we share similarities.

Doesnt work that way. You have to drink steadily at an alcoholics rate for years for this part to take place.

[2dayzmuse]

My nose and ears would turn red and my cheeks, neck and chest area would flush after just a few sips of alcohol. I contribute that to an allergic reaction. I know that is different from the cauliflower, red, bumpy nose thing. My neighbor down the road who is alcoholic has a nose the size of a small gourd due to years of excessive drinking.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by earlybird

Doesnt work that way. You have to drink steadily at an alcoholics rate for years for this part to take place.

I think I qualify for the rate.

Originally Posted by DangerousDan

Goes to show we're all different, even though we share similarities.

[Cathy31]

About the nose thing....does your nose actually PHYSICALLY get bigger, or just redder???

WC Fields et al had HUGE red noses...so is the alcohol actually making the nose more bulbous and red...or just red. My nose definitely seems bigger, though not red, and I wonder if I did not stop in time???

[AndrewBeen]

Originally Posted by earlybird

I dont know how old you are, but, if you are old enough to remeber who W.C. Fields was, he was a HUUUUGE alcoholic and thats why his big nose was always beet red and his cheeks flush.

Yes, Fields was a big drunk, but the trademark note was caused by a condition called rosacea, creating an all over redness and enlargement. True you can get broken blood vessels etc from habitual drinking, but Fields had something else going on. Note also how red and swollen his nose is in most pictures how unaffected his cheeks are.


Mary Stone, M.D.
University of Iowa Health Science RelationsAssociate Professor of Dermatology and Pathology

"W.C. Fields is probably the most well-known person to have had rosacea. People associated his fondness for alcohol with the large nose and the red skin. This association of alcohol and rosacea is unfortunate. One can have rosacea without drinking alcohol, although alcohol can aggravate the condition."

[Cathy31]

You see that's precisely what I mean - was his big nose to do with alcoholism, or just the redness.

Question: can alcoholism make your nose actually GROW BIGGER?