kevlarsjal

From where I'm now I would look at it as a cognitive malfunction that makes us think we have to drink to "solve" or "deal with" whatever's not going right in our lives. Which leads to a physical addiction which I see as a chronicle illness.


That's my general outlook on it. Weirdly though I still feel guilty and ashamed cause I became addicted and realising I am an alcoholic has lowered my self esteem very much in the beginning. Now I'm just starting to get to know my sober self and luckily all the good things like being good at socialising at parties even though I'm an introvert are still there when I'm sober.
Sometimes I still think that I ****** it up with the drinking and tell myself that if I had been more careful then I wouldnt have to call myself an alcoholic now and could still enjoy a glass every once in a while (which I never did).

emjay2017

For me, personally, it is a sin. But I only know my own thoughts and heart. When I chose to drink, it was my choice. Even if eventually it became something that was getting close to being outside of my control, it was my choices over a long period that bought me to that place. Those choices, I believe, were selfish and diminished the image of God within me.

But I only know my own heart, and so only answer for me.

Emjay

vulcan30

It's can be sellfish, yes, it's your choice of whether you drink, definitely.

If you're out in the snow and have been hiking all day in a blizzard, you stumble across a thatched cottage, with a roaring fire, a friendly host and a roast dinner on the table, would you decline the invitation to come in and choose to camp in a snow hole in the garden? This merely is a metaphor for loneliness and how it influences my choice, especially if there's no-one I can talk to regarding how I'm feeling.

I think it's important to UNDERSTAND and RELATE to the reasons why people make the choices they make, rather than to label them as sins. I personally think that this sort of narrative is rather damaging and not coming from a point of understanding. For those that consider it sinful, I would at least like to see the advocation of alternative coping strategies, ways to learn alternative skills to cope with what drives us to drink. Labelling people who've fallen into problematic drinking patterns to cope with life's problems is DAMAGING and, if anything, perpetuates the problem.

Sometimes, we stumble across situations in life that we find incredibly painful, that we simply don't know how to cope with. Sometimes, just a little heart-to-heart and a listening ear can make all the difference in the world. If that isn't available, alcohol fills that gap.

BrickbyBrick83

I went with "other." It is certainly not a sin - I think that's a terribly sad thing to think/feel/believe. I'm not sure it's a disease either, in the traditional sense.

I think it's a mental illness that some of us are more susceptible to - due to genetics, traumatic experiences etc.

My mum is an alcoholic, my dad is an alcoholic. Both physically abused me. I would be in a very dark place indeed if I told myself that my own addictive tendencies were a sin!

My brain is simply not wired in the same way as someone who can drink one glass.

Gottalife

Very nicely put Emjay. I can see the disconnect from God in my drinking years and behaviour both drunk and sober. For many alcoholics of my type, who managed a few years of social drinking before problems developed, it wasn't an unreasonable choice to drink back then. It didn't seem like a problem, so there really was not much motivation to quit while we still had the power.

So, instead we crossed an invisible line and when it became apparent that our behaviour was becoming immoral, for want of a better word, and we tried to get it under control or quit altogether, we found we didn't have the power of choice that we thought we had.

Though not religious myself, the AA proposition that we can get the power to quit by reconnecting to the God of our understanding has worked well for me. Through the steps I have been able to regain and maintain the connection, and live a happy, purposeful life. Nothing short of a miracle.

The part about sin that I am not so keen on is that it seems to suggest a wilful act. I don't think any sane person sets out to be an alcoholic.

DeathBox

AFAIK, alcoholism is the only addiction that's hallmarked by the fact that you tried to stop doing it. It's not like that with anything else.

It seems like everybody drinks this highly addictive substance, outside of those of us who noticed the problems it causes and decided to stop. If you lower the threshold a little bit, everybody drinks to the point of having problems to some degree, and they usually ignore and put up with those problems, no matter how gigantic or minimal. Everyone's personality changes under the effects of this drug, and I believe there are many types of addict who use an addictive, toxic substance like alcohol.

In short, I think people tend to forget that alcohol is an addictive drug for everybody, and pulls people in to varying degrees. Why we needed a label for this is beyond me.

BrickbyBrick83

Very well said - I completely agree

Algorithm

I didn't set out to be an alcoholic, and I also crossed some invisible line, without intending to. My problem is that at some point after crossing that invisible line, I knew on some level, that I had to knock it off, and yet, I did not. Years wasted knowing full well that something was not quite right, but avoiding doing the obvious, and eventually paying the price.

I can forgive myself for crossing that invisible line, since it was an accident, but I am not sure that all those wasted years after I suspected something was off were 'denial', either. I tried to control it, and to be careful, but deep down, I knew the drink would have to go eventually. A couple people in my life even told me, do not drink, but I kept drinking.

We see this here on SR all the time. People come, they post about their big problems with alcohol, and yet they keep drinking. Sometimes for years, posting in between binges, or even during binges. They are told repeatedly to knock it off, so they know what is what. I suspect they are still looking for a way to keep drinking, only without paying the price.

The same phenomenon exists with recovery group meetings.

What to make of that? That they are 'in denial'?

I sometimes ask people "is it right or wrong for you to drink?"

They don't usually want to answer, but I know that if they are on SR, that they should at least consider the question. If they are here, they know, or at least strongly suspect, that they shouldn't be drinking, but don't necessarily see anything wrong with it.

That's a big problem, if one has big problems from drinking.

paulokes

^ Just a footnote. You often see folks who come to SR, or AA, or Church and talk about trying to become a better person. But continuing to drink on and off sometimes to the point of complete misery.

I hated myself as a drunk. A byproduct of stopping was that I came to like myself more...I stopped doing drunken things, over which I had no control, that made me reprehensible to myself.

Sin and Morality had nothing to do with it for me. I just got to a point where I didn't want to die and I didn't want to hate myself anymore. So change was needed, but the absolute priority I think was to hit a realization that drink and myself had to part company. First things first.

Of course I have found lots more since that needed to change so I could continue to live and not hate myself...but that's another story.

P

Mountainmanbob

What do I like to do when drinking?
At least for a while
at many times some sin sounds good.
Maybe running with a woman that I shouldn't be with?
Doing something with the boys that I know to be dirty?
On purpose braking a law or one of the 10 Commandments?
My sinful list goes on and on.
M-Bob

paulokes

I certainly got up to things drunk that my heart and soul knew to be wrong. In blackout it was worse. I think the first realization was that I couldn't stop doing these things, or being that person, while I continued to drink. The next realization was that I couldn't stop drinking despite the fact I wanted to change.

I stopped drinking, and change started to happen.

P

Mountainmanbob

I did not do diseased things when I was drinking.

I did sinful things.

M-Bob

BrendaChenowyth

Bob
I started reading Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps by Richard Rohr, a Catholic priest and recovering alcoholic.

He says we're all addicts, that addiction is just a modern name for sin, or what medieval Christians called passions or attachments.
Addiction is just self-destructive thinking, and everybody has some pattern of thinking that holds them back from maturing spiritually.
It's just that our addiction is more obvious to others because we happen to be physically addicted to a substance.

BrendaChenowyth

Heh.. it's hard to be ashamed of something that others can't see, but it's even harder to feel ashamed of what we're completely unaware of. I think the only reason why there's such a stigma attached to alcoholism is not because addiction is inherently bad or sinful or shameful, but because addiction to alcohol is so readily visible. Why do you think we hoard empties? lol If all your sins are in your head, just don't write them down on paper and you don't have to face them.

queenofheartz09

This is exactly how I see it as well so I chose other too.

crazychef

I agree with soCal. It's a choice of pleasure. Do I think certain people are more susceptible to not knowing how to handle that. Yes, absolutely. The same way certain people overindulge with gambling, sex, stealing, lying, fetishes, crime, ect. What ever else floats their boat to give them a feeling of wanting more even though they know its hurting them or someone else.

Calling it a disease takes the responsibility and accountability away from the person doing those things. Cancer is a disease. Alcohol can/is be/an addiction with a choice to stop. As for Sin???? Drinking is not a sin. It's all the bad things you do when your drunk that's a sin.

BrendaChenowyth

The disease is addiction. Drinking happens to be our response. It is a choice.

Many aspects of both are sinful.. but all sin means is falling short of what God wants us to be, not being fully whole. It doesn't mean being a bad person.. all human beings are sinful. We're all just striving for wholeness.

ThatWasTheOldMe

It's a behavioral health issue often accompanied by preexisting mental health conditions (anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc).