fini

cool, that!
the turn-around in view.
love it when that happens


PS...well, it doesn't just "happen". you made it happen.

Obladi

Thanks, fini

I'm at some sort of crossroads here with IOP continuing care and meetings.

Gut is saying go with the meetings but intellectual self is saying "Why are you ditching continuing care?"

The point was moot tonight as we had to take care of youngest's ortho issues, but needs to be faced soon.

O

Fabela

Who's usually right, your gut or your intellectual self?

Hope your youngest is OK!

fini

i find it difficult when gut and intellect don't agree. okay, that's an understatement.

i know that both can fool "me". but what is this "me"?

going with my gut can often be close to following the good idea of the moment, which is often not a good idea. intellect is quite capable (this has been proven to me by me repeatedly) to skew the evidence convincingly in my favour, meaning in favour of what i "want" to do (where does "want" reside??))

this brings to mind the concept of living by principles. principles i've considered and chosen as ethical, decent, healthy, spiritual, ...anyway...guiding in a way that can cut through BS from gut and intellect. hm...maybe not 'cut through' but go beyond.

work in progress, for sure.

Obladi

Oy fini..,

You are making my brain explode or maybe implode,
Further thinking required, dammit.

dwtbd

fini , I wish I could hit the thanks thingy more than once !

Obladi

Spent the weekend watching Netflix.
Yup, that's pretty much it.
I'd like to use that it was rainy and chilly as my excuse. It certainly is an adequate alibi, no? But really, I felt absolutely zero desire, momentum, or ambition to do anything whatsoever.

However.

I am up and out of bed, room has been tidied and dishes are done. It's shaping up to be a fine work from home Monday. Funny, because I could not have predicted this turnabout two hours ago. But then again, it's been my MO for quite a good number of Mondays running, so it's not shocking.

At this point, I'd say I've got weekdays licked but weekends are a vast sea of nothing. And I'd say it's a hopeful sign that this concerns me.

Obladi

I have a touchy-feely degree and a nerdy job. It works out.
Favorite novels? I'm not sure at this point. I can tell you that I used to read Pride and Prejudice every five years or so, but I think that phase is over. I used to say I didn't like short stories, but "Pretending the Bed is a Raft" (Nancy Kincaid) has been not far from my nightstand for years. I thought "Akeela and the Bee" and "The Green Mile" were stunning.

From time to time I go on an author binge, much like when I go on a Netflix series binge. I'll read one thing I like and keep going for a few of the same writer's novels until I get bored-ish. I've done that with Jodi Piccoult, Mitch Albom, James Patterson, Maeve Binchy, Jeffrey Archer.

Obladi

I've no idea.
Perhaps because it's sometimes hard to distinguish between the two?

I think it's gut.
But it may only be gut sometimes.

Obladi

When we left our heroine a few weeks back, she had returned from her childhood home a bit of a mess. Anxiety attack on the way to the airport in her hometown, anxiety attack woke her from sleep a day or two later, and she suffered yet another two, the second of which was more than a couple of hours in duration and was preventing sleep. (This type of anxiety being an ache in the middle of the sternum that feels rather like someone is pushing the eraser end of a pencil there very firmly and without letup.)

She finally decided to take a single dose of Klonopin which had been prescribed back in January and had caused zero issues with temptation or addictive behaviors. In fact, she'd agreed with the psychiatrist after maybe ten doses that it would be a good idea to taper off and she did just that without incident.

That week after her return from Wisconsin, a substitute counselor was conducting the continuing care session at the clinic, and our friend O told the story of taking this dose of medication. (O had already checked to see that she was not up for a urine test this night, so her motives were pure.) Counselor said she would need to report this to case manager and O said, "ok, understood. But I don't have a problem with pills. Never did and I know that I won't; it's a non-issue."

Case manager called and said, "When you come in, we need to discuss what happened last week." Our heroine was clueless for a moment and then said, "Ohhh you mean the Klonopin. Ok, what are we going to talk about?" Case manager said essentially, "You shouldn't take it if we don't tell you that it's ok, we don't like it that you weren't prescribed this by one of our affiliated psychiatrists, and lastly what was reported to me that you said sounded like addictive talk."

This made our O anxious. And she is now starting to get anxious again at the thought of dealing with what she sees as a non-issue. Not so much because it's not an issue, but because the case manager has determined that taking one dose of (prescribed) Klonopin to sleep one day out of three months is displaying addictive behavior. Essentially, she's "in trouble."

So that's the deal.

I don't know if I really want to continue with subjecting myself to this sort of infantilizing routine. Intellect and gut says that for me, taking a Klonopin is not addictive behavior. Intellect "resents" having to negotiate what steps we need to take to mitigate this behavior with which I have no issue. Intellect says it's silly that I have to "make up" a session if I miss one - and it's fine if the makeup is any time within the next week or two after that missed one.

But my gut is delivering anxiety and it's difficult to know if that's because I'm trying to "get out of" something or if it's because I just can't stand this feeling of being "in trouble." I'm pretty sure it's the latter and that's something to discuss with Last Chance Counselor, only when I tried, she merely explained the clinic's policy (she used to work there), which I already understand.

But honest to God, it didn't even occur to me that taking that medication was a problem. Or dangerous in any way to my sobriety. And even when it's pointed out how it could be, I'm certain it's not.

Obladi

Using this definition, I do not need to keep going to the clinic. As long as I find my way to living ethically and up to my spiritual/moral responsibilities. Which means finding/following the next path on which I've embarked most recently (meetings and counseling).

fini

that's not quite what it means to me, Obladi.
it's more...i do the principled things as the way to living that way.
so, for example, if you had committed to go to the clinic and following their "rules" you'd now do it, see it through to the end of the commitment you made. (and i don't have any idea if you made a commitment about it, either to them or yourself).
not sure i'm articulating the difference i see. and maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

when i don't want to do something and then find good intellctual reasons for not doing it, i get a bit suspicious.
groan.

jseattle

I haven't read your entire thread but I am totally in agreement with you about the infantalizing behavior that can happen. I am currently in outpatient rehab with a surgeon, a journalist, and several very successful and highly educated business people. Much is helpful ... and then there is crap like this. All of us have experienced being treated like a child.

In my case I have worked extensively with the IOP's psychiatrist on trying to find meds that work for my severe sleep problems and anxiety. Both problems contribute to my desire to drink. We tried trazedone and some other things. What works - Ambien, on occasion, as needed. Now the not very bright counselor continues to give me crap about Ambien in my urine, how much did I take, when was the last time, etc. 1/2 half pill, once in the last week.

I am an alcoholic. I self-referred myself to rehab. I am extremely self-aware and I have no problem with pills. I do not enjoy them. I also take Xanax about once a month to stave off a panic attack.

I am sick of feeling defensive about this or having to explain it over and over again. I came very close to discharging myself today.

Soberwolf

Hi O have a lovely day x

Fabela

Obladi

fini,

I'm sure I don't get the whole of what you're saying because it usually takes me a couple of alternate explanations from you to get there.

But the only commitment I made was to give this a shot. I was hesitant about going into continuing care before I started with it.

Apart from hating the feeling of being in trouble when I (feel that) I've done nothing wrong. It also occurred to me last night that I also don't tend to quit when I start something, even when that something is not good for me. I was thinking at that time about jobs. But this morning, I realize/remember this especially applies to relationships with men and of course with alcohol. That very last may be a really twisted thought in this context... have to think on that.

xo
O

Obladi

jseattle,

I'm not sure how far in you are, but would encourage you to finish out the core program. There were plenty of things that rubbed me the wrong way for the first couple of months, but I also did learn a lot and found that it was a good exercise to keep the look out for the lessons during this time. For what it's worth, I also self-referred. That stuff is all in the previous thread if you care to take a look.

Thank you for validating what I am expressing and how frustrating it is to feel defensive when really no defense is needed. I'm sure there's a lesson in all of this as well, I just need to keep my eyes open for what it is.

O

Obladi

My friends Wolfie and Fabs,

Dropsie

Hey girl -- you are up early. Finally left your long awaited PM. Thinking about you.

fini

It also occurred to me last night that I also don't tend to quit when I start something, even when that something is not good for me.

yes, me too.
double groan.
but i'm way way better at detaching from things, people, situations that aren't good for me than i was even just a couple of years ago.
a lot of the obsessive element is eased. i was so often so stubbornly determined in the wrong endeavors and directions.