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Diary of a Mad Cow, Part XVIII: "New Year, New Moo!"



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Diary of a Mad Cow, Part XVIII: "New Year, New Moo!"

Old 02-08-2016, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
Actually, most plans rely on accepting external help and relying on others or methods/procedures rather than willpower. I think it's pretty commonly agreed within most recovery programs that you cannot get sober on your own willpower alone.
Turtle here told me that 60% of people that get sober do just that. They get sober with willpower. I know I can't do that. No yet anyway.

Certainly willpower is important in life and it plays a part in taking the initiative to get sober and keep working at the plan ( whatever it may be ), but when it comes down to the actual "how do i deal with a craving" or "how do I deal with this stressful/difficult situation", there are clearly defined steps on how to make a healthy decision rather than drinking.
How to do this without the pill, that would be the plan? Its easy with the pill. I think that if I just take the pill long enough, I will amass enough experience dealing with stress and boredom (my worst triggers) that I will have those skills down. I already feel experainced enough with respect to stress and boredom. I experience those feelings now and have no thoughts of drinking. However, taking the pill does not help me with developing impulse control.

For example, in AA there are meetings. And there are phone numbers to call and sponsors. All of these are external tools one can rely on in times of trouble. Feel like drining? Call your sponsor or someone else. They can help you make it through the craving...because cravings are simply feelings, and they always pass.
You have to have willpower to call your sponsor when you want a drink.

For people who use SR or other online communities, they log on and start a virtual conversation before they drink. For those that use methods like AVRT, there are specific ways to deal with the "beast" that don't involve willpower at all.
For AVRT, the idea that one will, "never drink again and will never change your mind" that is all will power. I admire it. I aspire to it. I'm not there yet.

The good news is that once you have a plan established, the cravings really do become much less intense and farther between. At some point sobriety becomes "the norm" and thoughts of drinking are rare.
I have almost no cravings. They are weak when they do come. Being sober is my norm and has been for a while now. Just a couple days ago I was sitting on the porch, sipping carbonated water, watching the birds and deer. Something I used to only do with a beer. For a long time I stopped enjoying it bc I felt more pain from missing beer than joy at the activity. Now I feel relieved that I'm not letting watching the birds cause me to become drunk. I'm just enjoying the scene and will be sober when I decide to go back into the house.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by walkbeformakrun View Post
You have to have willpower to call your sponsor when you want a drink.
That's why I mentioned that willpower is still important, but it cannot be a recovery plan in itself....just as a pill cannot either.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:10 AM
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This is all so complicated Cow. I mean how do you feel about it straight off your gut? Most times I allowed someone to influence me from my gut it didn't go well. I know if you are working mandatory 60 hour weeks that's just a "Nope" as far as I'm concerned. Humans aren't t meant for that.

Sigh off to work again I was there for 11 hours with not one single break yesterday and very ill. Did you ever see "Bridesmaids" where Kristin Wiig is eating the Jordan Almond? All sweaty and pale and about to puke... that's what I felt like yesterday. And screaming children. So many screaming children. And the customers who take it upon themselves to swing around and HOVER over my shoulder and squint at my computer screen, while I'm trying to do my job?One woman actually told me "Go into accounts" as if I don't knw how to do my work...? ... WTF lady seriously? What kind of psychopath does that??? Go F*** yourself.

I gassed her pretty good. While she hovered over me. My stomach was a mess yesterday. I just let 'em fly. Yep. Silent killers. Enjoy, lady. She noticed.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:42 AM
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I love you Sleeps.

I love cow and all the cow people.

And a bronco is kind of a cow right.

I digress.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dropsie View Post

And a bronco is kind of a cow right.


LMAO! Can't wait to hear what Cow says about this!
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:51 PM
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I think the willpower question in recovery is very interesting. I get that it's a very powerful concept if you believe in an AA higher power, and so you have this very deep emotional process of letting go of your will and trusting in God. But I'm not sure if it's as important in an agnostic/atheist context. I spent a lot of time wrestling with this when I was in rehab, because the only religious belief that I put in the 100% category is that if there is any kind of higher something, it doesn't have a "will" for individuals. That being the case, I'm not trusting in anyone else's will, it has to be mine. I never really found a way around it. The closest I got was to link giving up the will to Buddhist non-attachment.

I guess maybe it is important to distinguish abstinence/sobriety from refusal/willpower. There are definitely more mechanisms involved than just saying no. But at the end of the day I'm not certain that I can't attribute my sobriety at least in part to my will?
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:42 PM
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Cow, when I first got sober, I had to go back to work right away. It was crazy and I was worried, I was lucky I had a plan and a way to structure my time. I believe that saved me. I know I've harped on about it but taking it slow in the morning, getting ready for work made a difference.

My days were busy, long and stressful. But I had a plan for after work. My sponsor had me writing and reading assignments. Plus, I had to call her every night no matter what. And looking back, I think having those nightly de-briefs of my day and how I felt really helped. Having someone who knew me and knew my disease as well helped. I was able to vent in a safe place and she gave me boundaries for acting out.

I was physically not in the best shape. I had colitis, I wasn't tolerating many foods, I felt shaky and scattered. But for me, having a daily plan and that nightly debrief made a huge difference. It helped me make good, healthy habits.

And I think being back at work helped me feel more normal and built my sober confidence.

You're smart to work on resetting your sleep schedule.

Love from Lenina
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Old 02-08-2016, 02:19 PM
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Hi guys - I've been on an island with no internet. Just caught up. I hope it (sobriety) does require more than just willpower because otherwise I'm in deep trouble.

Cow, it's so hard to say because obviously it's a huge decision and your call. All I can say is that I'm much happier when I have some structure and am interacting with people, and it does seem (although this may just be a coincidence) that since you've had work on you seem noticeably more buoyant. That could just be the change in attitudes though - don't know. But it is an observation. I don't think that the demands of work will necessarily put more of a strain on your sobriety - being inactive and isolated comes with its own set of stressors.

The other thing is that it's pretty clear that it would be a smart move in terms of your career and financial situation, but then that has to be weighed up against quality of life in the short term....although 2 years isn't all that short. Sounds like the actual job itself is unappealing and you're not fond of early starts.

So, really tough one. I would lean towards take the job, but in no way is that meant to be advice. I think someone said trust your gut....(Courage?) It doesn't always speak loudly to us though, unfortunately, although it might be in your case...?
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Old 02-08-2016, 04:56 PM
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Walk, re the whole willpower thing:

The first time around getting sober, my husband had a bottle of vodka in the apartment, supposedly hidden but I knew where it was.

For many nights, at least once an evening I'd go secretly to check that it was there. Then I started secretly opening it and smelling it, sometimes a couple of times a night. I exercised tremendous willpower and didn't drink any of it, night after night, for months & months. Right up until I relapsed.

My willpower got me nowhere, because it was phoney willpower -- I was trying to go against something my deeper will desired. I had to get to a place where I completely internalized the belief that living (and dying) in active alcoholism is a terrible thing. No ambivalence. No need for willpower.

If I ever want to get ambivalent again, I can go there in a heartbeat. To keep myself from doing that, I study the damage that drugs and alcohol have done to me, to my family, to people here. I also focus intensely on sources of personal gratification, to develop my attachment to sober pleasures.

Are you immersed in your own real life?
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Old 02-08-2016, 05:22 PM
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Yes, this is exactly what I've been thinking lately: drinking - even thinking about drinking - is saying "no" to life.
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Old 02-08-2016, 05:49 PM
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Hi Shab
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:37 PM
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Hey gorgeous

I'm really glad your job is going well, even if it's a bi tiring :-)
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:41 PM
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It's getting better Shab at least I am getting the hang of stuff and the rest I just fart on.
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:47 PM
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Tee hee....that's our girl!
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:08 PM
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willpower...("the proper use of the will", AA big book i do not know what page, but was intrigued by this phrase)...i use mine to decide and follow up on doing the stuff that works for me in keeping me going on the sober road.
hm. yes. i think that's what i do.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:20 PM
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This is like reading two books at once, which I often did when I was a kid and now that I'm sober I find that I can keep up with both conversations!

Cow, you know yourself best. We can all say what we would do but you know that it comes down to what you honestly think is best for you. I think if you can set some parameters (10 hours/day not 12 OR 12 hours are ok as long as you can go hide if you need to OR whatever will make this thing safe for you), then you have the control and that potentially changes your decision. On the other hand, if it's going to be a sweatshop experience, that sounds like too much right now. Not sure how I feel about the "relevance" argument aside from aren't you working right now? It's not like you dropped off the face of the earth...

Walk, I'm taking Antabuse as well and am somewhat torn about it. But I don't know why and I don't know why you should be either. I think it does the same thing for me that it does for you - it takes the option of drinking clean off the table. It may be the placebo affect, but who cares? It works, and it helps me to disregard any thoughts of drinking that cross my mind.

I actually came home tonight thinking about this and will probably go on a rant on my own thread, but here's the nugget of it for me: In order to stay sober, everyone needs something. Some people have their own internal commitment to self, some have a higher power, others are on probation and don't want to get caught, etc. Why is taking Antabuse any less of a good solution if it works? (I'm not asking you that, Walk, but the others. If you know why it's less good than I'm interested in your response too. )

I'm not saying it's a long-term solution - how can I know that? But I do know that it works for me now and there is apparently no harm as long as I don't drink. Maybe in a week or a month or a year I won't feel like I "need" it, but maybe I'll find that I "need" a different higher power at that time. Mox-nix (it's that how spelled?).
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sleepie View Post
...
I gassed her pretty good. While she hovered over me. My stomach was a mess yesterday. I just let 'em fly. Yep. Silent killers. Enjoy, lady. She noticed.
Omg, Sleepie. You kill me!

Missed you, Shabs!

The whole willpower and "plan" conversation is very interesting. I think about it a lot. Until I found SR, I really did think that I should have the willpower to cut back my drinking and I was so confused that I didn't. That, of course, was based on the mistaken belief that I didn't really have a serious drinking problem which had all but destroyed every bit of my willpower. So now I have a thorough, and totally crazy plan that seems to be working thus far.

Are the polls still open? I vote for taking the job! Could be my religious upbringing...idle hands and what have you. LOL. Seriously, I'm always so much happier when I have a steady job. But maybe that's just me.

D.
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Old 02-09-2016, 04:21 AM
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Hello Cowlanders!! Hi Delf!!

Cow, I thought you would really like this tune because you're no fan of the humans.... :-D

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Old 02-09-2016, 04:45 AM
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Hi Wonderful Cow Folks,
The willpower conversation has been very interesting to me. I struggle with weight issues which has always seemed like an issue of "will" to me..like "will" I have that piece of cake now or later? Guess thats why I'm still fat! No seriously,
It has certainly played a part in my soberity, along with finding other things to do when I would normally start drinking wine in the evening. I think you just have to find what works for you.
Delf asked if the polls are still open on taking the job, and if they are I vote for taking it as well. This may be the wrong way to look at it, but you can give it a try and if proves to be too much, you can quit. At least you would have tried it out to see if it would suit you. You'll never know if it is a good fit for you Cow if you don't give if a go....
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Obladi View Post
This is like reading two books at once
I more of a pamphlet, really.

Interesting you guys mostly vote on opposite side of what therapist advises about job. Anyways, I had phone interview and next is they gonna send some papers over for me to look at. Meanwhile, experiments to get up earlier is so far quite punishing. We shall see.

As depressive anhedonic, I not has lot of willpower, cuz, I not feel stuff like motivations and passions and hopefulness and determinations and love for life and all that. I only has kind of willpower that come from desperation after harrowing experiences with substances. And that not hold. It fade.

If pill is safe, I not see any debate on whether to takes it. I mean, you has life-destroying deadly affliction. So if is pill to keep that in check, it just kind of be, well, stupid, to no take it, yes?

Love FOC, Shabs.
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