Wreckage of the past
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I agree with AO about viewing this as an opportunity. If you have lived with this person most of your life and the laying down of defenses boat has never left the dock, then I think Cow is spot on that this is what this is needed.
What have you to lose? A relationship that isn't built on trust? Your sense of indebtedness? His or her resentment and festering wounds? Our minds can easily persuade us that letting our defenses down is a bad idea; that they are there to protect us from harm. Sometimes that may be true, but if this is a significant relationship that you intend to remain in I can't see how these defenses will protect you from anything other than having a trusting and real relationship in which the two of you can grow and love without fear. It may sound facile, but you might like to consider doing a pros and cons list of the advantages and disadvantages of letting these defenses down. Don't underestimate you own Courage xxxxx
What have you to lose? A relationship that isn't built on trust? Your sense of indebtedness? His or her resentment and festering wounds? Our minds can easily persuade us that letting our defenses down is a bad idea; that they are there to protect us from harm. Sometimes that may be true, but if this is a significant relationship that you intend to remain in I can't see how these defenses will protect you from anything other than having a trusting and real relationship in which the two of you can grow and love without fear. It may sound facile, but you might like to consider doing a pros and cons list of the advantages and disadvantages of letting these defenses down. Don't underestimate you own Courage xxxxx
p***enger
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Tooshabs, you're sweet. But it's not *my* defenses at this point. Remember, I surrendered. I'm lying here with my soft underbelly pretty well exposed. I just made the false assumption that the display would be more welcome than it is. I should have known better, I did know better. It was stupid. I'm not drinking. I'll deal.
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Oh, I see. I must have missed that. But I will say this, it was not stupid at all. You should be proud of yourself. I have let my defenses down a couple of times with family members and it's been taken as some kind of attack and responded to with venom - just the mode they are set in.
At least we get to represent our truth. I think it's worth it. For me, I am learning that I need to confront things as they arise, rather than 'eat punches' and hoping (in vain) I'll be able to just suck it up. It does sound like maybe you need to take a step back. I'm sorry about the hurt you're feeling.
At least we get to represent our truth. I think it's worth it. For me, I am learning that I need to confront things as they arise, rather than 'eat punches' and hoping (in vain) I'll be able to just suck it up. It does sound like maybe you need to take a step back. I'm sorry about the hurt you're feeling.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Originally Posted by courage2 
This is all about acceptance of what I can never change and recognizing what I can salvage for myself.
Painful but unavoidable, perhaps. Consequences - yes.
Thoughts for you friend....
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*beeping reversing truck noise*
looks like I got the wrong end of the stick as to what this thread is about - my apologies Courage.
I will say tho - trust can be regained...reputations can be healed. Forgiveness is available for everyone - even self-forgiveness.
Everytime I think I'm as grown as I will be, I end up growing some more.
The journey continues
I have faith that whatever this speedbump is, you'll get through it
D
looks like I got the wrong end of the stick as to what this thread is about - my apologies Courage.
I will say tho - trust can be regained...reputations can be healed. Forgiveness is available for everyone - even self-forgiveness.
Everytime I think I'm as grown as I will be, I end up growing some more.
The journey continues
I have faith that whatever this speedbump is, you'll get through it
D
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I can't see how you got the wrong end of the stick, Dee, but that beeping reverse noise was cute :-)
Beccybean - I loved what you posted re Mother Theresa. Sent shivers up my spine.
"Acceptance of what we cannot change." Yep, this is something I find that I need to keep soaking in. Oddly, it seems to be the most liberating thing there is.
Beccybean - I loved what you posted re Mother Theresa. Sent shivers up my spine.
"Acceptance of what we cannot change." Yep, this is something I find that I need to keep soaking in. Oddly, it seems to be the most liberating thing there is.
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Originally Posted by Tooshabby
"Acceptance of what we cannot change." Yep, this is something I find that I need to keep soaking in. Oddly, it seems to be the most liberating thing there is.
Woe is Moo.
Join Date: Aug 2013
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My therapist say I got too much acceptance. ...and, in my case, I think she right!
Bunny, if this person reject you display of vulnerability, and you think he never gonna honor your surrendering or trust you again, then, sound like you has decisions to make about the relationship, yes? Because that no way to be treated.
Bunny, if this person reject you display of vulnerability, and you think he never gonna honor your surrendering or trust you again, then, sound like you has decisions to make about the relationship, yes? Because that no way to be treated.
p***enger
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I have a part in any turn a relationship takes. When things go well, I have some part in the cause, even if only by taking advantage of good circumstances. And then I reap the benefits. When things go south, I have a part in the cause there, too.
My life as a drunk irrevocably influenced the way I'm perceived by those closest to me. They can forgive, but their gut memory doesn't go away -- I bred mistrust. It is what I did. Plus, I have bad habits that perpetuate mistrust.
I'm not gonna opt out of accountability for that, even though I might like to run away & hide. As long as people will put up with my failures, I'm instead going to keep trying to learn to care for and respect others, and conduct myself in ways that earn their care and respect. Humility isn't something I'm good at, but my high horse broke down a long time ago.
My life as a drunk irrevocably influenced the way I'm perceived by those closest to me. They can forgive, but their gut memory doesn't go away -- I bred mistrust. It is what I did. Plus, I have bad habits that perpetuate mistrust.
I'm not gonna opt out of accountability for that, even though I might like to run away & hide. As long as people will put up with my failures, I'm instead going to keep trying to learn to care for and respect others, and conduct myself in ways that earn their care and respect. Humility isn't something I'm good at, but my high horse broke down a long time ago.
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I dunno, Courage, you say humility doesn't come easy, but you seem to be doing a pretty good rendition of it to me.
I've never felt that comfortable with the "being drunk is no excuse" idea. Like someone needs an excuse to be a human being? I think what people usually mean when they say that is that the person is still accountable for their actions. Sure, of course they are. That's a no-brainer. But what seems to be superimposed upon that, although not articulated, is that somehow the actions someone took when they're drunk are indicative of who they are as a person. No they aren't -not necessarily. They're indicative of who they are when drunk. I know this isn't PC and I don't care. If someone knows you well - those who are closest to you can't see that you've changed, or can't 'feel it in their gut', then maybe they're just douchebags, you know? Poor judges of character.
People do change. It's as simple as that. My mother, against all odds, as grown a heck of a lot in her later years. My sister who hasn't spoken to her for 25 years, doesn't know this, naturally. Why? Because she's too intent on being angry and suspicious due to the wounds that were inflicted a long time ago. At what point does this become the other's responsibility for not seeing the person as they really are? At some point it must, surely.
Are you accepting this as some kind of 'punishment' that you earned, and one that you may have to suffer indefinitely? That doesn't seem quite right to me.
I've never felt that comfortable with the "being drunk is no excuse" idea. Like someone needs an excuse to be a human being? I think what people usually mean when they say that is that the person is still accountable for their actions. Sure, of course they are. That's a no-brainer. But what seems to be superimposed upon that, although not articulated, is that somehow the actions someone took when they're drunk are indicative of who they are as a person. No they aren't -not necessarily. They're indicative of who they are when drunk. I know this isn't PC and I don't care. If someone knows you well - those who are closest to you can't see that you've changed, or can't 'feel it in their gut', then maybe they're just douchebags, you know? Poor judges of character.
People do change. It's as simple as that. My mother, against all odds, as grown a heck of a lot in her later years. My sister who hasn't spoken to her for 25 years, doesn't know this, naturally. Why? Because she's too intent on being angry and suspicious due to the wounds that were inflicted a long time ago. At what point does this become the other's responsibility for not seeing the person as they really are? At some point it must, surely.
Are you accepting this as some kind of 'punishment' that you earned, and one that you may have to suffer indefinitely? That doesn't seem quite right to me.
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Accepting accountability doesn't mean accepting blame for something you didn't do courage. . .
I have some past regrets and a few current bad habits too, but that isn't what or who I am now.
I agree, humility and owning your past is a step towards recovery, but it isn't the top of the tower.
I am also off my high horse at the moment reaping some short-term and long-term paybacks of choices I should have made differently.
I guess the question is how do we cultivate this selfless self when it is perhaps
not inherent given our lifelong-conditioning towards survival and defensiveness?
It is a challenging question, and a quest worth undertaking, but finding the balance of self-care and selflessness seems to be my biggest issue.
What are you finding?
I have some past regrets and a few current bad habits too, but that isn't what or who I am now.
I agree, humility and owning your past is a step towards recovery, but it isn't the top of the tower.
I am also off my high horse at the moment reaping some short-term and long-term paybacks of choices I should have made differently.
I guess the question is how do we cultivate this selfless self when it is perhaps
not inherent given our lifelong-conditioning towards survival and defensiveness?
It is a challenging question, and a quest worth undertaking, but finding the balance of self-care and selflessness seems to be my biggest issue.
What are you finding?
p***enger
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I guess the question is how do we cultivate this selfless self when it is perhaps not inherent given our lifelong-conditioning towards survival and defensiveness?
It is a challenging question, and a quest worth undertaking, but finding the balance of self-care and selflessness seems to be my biggest issue.
What are you finding?
It is a challenging question, and a quest worth undertaking, but finding the balance of self-care and selflessness seems to be my biggest issue.
What are you finding?
I don't think I'm being selfless in this situation -- I'm just weighing different rewards: the reward of a chance at more freedom to exert my will and use my tongue on the world without always being sensitive to someone else who has a deep investment in what I say and do -- vs. the reward of possibly reconciling with the idea that neither I nor anyone else is the most important thing. That there is simply human right and wrong. And I can do try to do right. Regardless of its consequences for me personally.
If I choose to follow willfulness, fear of my part in difficulties, and blame, I'll be back drinking in no time.
p***enger
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P.S. I'm also weighing different fears. Maybe I'm caught in Hamlet's dilemma, wondering would I rather
Or maybe not. It's a long life, no?
bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all
Introspectator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 121
My heart goes out to you. The pain of past conflicts, misunderstandings, injuries.
I believe your day will come, when you will be asleep to speak up effectively and will be heard, despite the past.
Your "not defending yourself" may have spoken volumes...time will tell. Be true to yourself.
Introspectator
I believe your day will come, when you will be asleep to speak up effectively and will be heard, despite the past.
Your "not defending yourself" may have spoken volumes...time will tell. Be true to yourself.
Introspectator
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