Tc4ever

People say they are abused by their therapist, Therapy screwed them up, People at AA abuse them because they're an easy target and everybody and everything thing except them is the reason they drink and can't work on their sobriety when so many people on here give them great advice and they get mad when people don't tell them what they want to hear. Is this just for attention/drama? Does nobody take charge of there life anymore? This has just been standing out on here a lot.
"If you always play the victim you'll always be the victim"
TC

Fluffer

It feels better in the short term to blame others for one's problems, but of course then nothing gets done. Being honest about your own shortcomings requires self-discipline and entails some psychological discomfort, so most people are lazy and would rather take the easy way out and blame everyone else.

Latte

It's what we do.

It's often why we work some sort of program-so we can learn to be a victor instead of a victim.

zjw

it can be hard to see what it looks like outside of the pit your in. Not all solutions offered will work either. Sometimes situations are complex. For me for example I hate my job I desperatly need to find a better solution. But simply finding a new one isnt that simple is all. Sure its the most obvious clear solution but then once one factors in all the other factors its not that easy of a task.

But I think i know what our saying. Some folks are so stuck in there stuff tho. But they are here looking for help with any luck something someone says to them will help them get unstuck. I can see how it might feel like your trying to nail jello to a wall with some folks. But heck no ones perfect everyones got there struggles who knows what there not shareing with the board etc..

Lifes hard ya know. I'm blessed i can see what i can see about myself. Not everyone has the kind of perspective you do or I do etc... Sobering up and fixing our messes isnt always so simple for some folks for various reasons is all.

Fly N Buy

Turns out I was a volunteer more than a victim. Learning to be accountable to ourselves and others doesn't always come easy / growing up is tough!!

The stark reality we face that some decisions we have made in our lives are irreversible isn't easy at times. Especially as we get sober.

Taking proper account, letting go of the past and recognizing our current situation is foundational to evolve and live a fruitful life. At least this is what I have come across. I can't go back and take action on missed opportunities. I can't change some of the crap I did.

However, I'm not done

fini

i don't think people "play" victim as much as they really feel they are.
when i felt victimized, it was real from my perspective.

Wholesome

Or maybe some people actually are victimized and they are trying to get through it? Coming on here and being able to be anonymous and get others perspectives may be exactly what they need to put things back together?

fini

oh yes, for sure there is real victimization. didn't mean to imply there isn't.

Venecia

Well ... everyone takes a different path to SR.

The genetic lottery can be brutally unfair; some among us on SR had horrific childhoods, something no one deserves. Life's other twists and turns can be equally difficult. One friend here, who had a good childhood, later went on to a marriage in which the spouse has been aptly described as a sociopath. There was a divorce, thank heavens, but the damage was frightful.

So, yes, some are victims; some among us have higher mountains to climb. Human charity requires us to acknowledge that.

The question should be, I think, how are the unkindnesses -- even the brutalities -- of life dealt with in order to achieve recovery.

I'm not comfortable discussing others to much extent, but I think we all know people among us on SR who have overcome great challenges. The friend I mentioned above is doing well, growing each day in recovery. (And I'm so proud of her!)

However, when the difficulties of our lives -- and we all have had them -- turns into "you'd drink if you were me, too," that's when our support and responses require both delicacy and candor. Yes, the problems are real and we have empathy.

But sobriety and recovery are equal opportunity paths in life. Learning from others that alcoholism can be overcome, no matter what challenges are in our pasts or presents, is one of the great gifts of SR.

Gottalife

Was it Jung who said " The cause of all mental illness is the refusal to suffer legitimate pain"?

I don't know if I entirely can agree with that but I do know I was always looking for the easy way out. Taking responsbility, being honest with myself and others, were not attractive prospects.

For as long as I could stand it, I sought to blame my problems on anyone or anything other than me and alcohol. I had some great stories about childhood trauma, latched on to a cracker of a mental illness which should have got me off the hook. My best chances of keeping drinking hinged on my ability to be a victim of other things.

Eventually, it got too painful and I was forced to see the truth.

bigsombrero

Yeah, "living as the victim" is a common trait found in alcoholics. Not just alcoholics, but lots of troubled souls seem to find some solace taking this route. Sometimes, dealing with life's mounting problems and facing the fact that they are all your fault is just too much to contend with. Thus, part of our self-protective mental behavior seems to cope by blaming our problems on others. It's not just done by alcoholics, it's done by lots of people who are living tough roads in life.

Taking control of our lives starts with taking control of our alcohol intake. I think once we find success, it builds empowerment and real positive changes.

Berrybean

As has been said by many people; Alcoholism is a disease of perception.

The way we see ourselves and others is very skewed. The way we see life (and ourselves as victims a lot of the time) can be very painful and is the cause of a lot of anger; fear; and resentment. A year ago there was a huge number of situations that I felt I'd been the victim of. Thankfully, starting to work through the 12-steps of AA with the guidance of my sponsor has opened my eyes and allowed me to work on my perception. I can tell if it's edging back because I start feeling 'bad' in some way (loneliness; fearful; guilty; whatever) which usually manifests itself in anger for me.

All this doesn't mean that I don't also share the frustration of reading other's posts when they're doing what I did for years (and can still fall into the trap of doing). In fact, I think I find them even more frustrating because I know I've done the same thing. I hate to be reminded of what I was like. (I also hate hearing bad things about AA, as it has been an amazing source of support for me, and is close to my heart. However, I have also heard female members I respect say of a particular old-timer in a city I lived in before to "Just be careful round X" to the other females, so maybe there was some 13th stepping going on in the past. I suppose not all members and all groups are going to be the same.)

Dee74

I lived as a victim for a long time - but I wasn't playing at anything.

I had some legitimately bad things happen to me in my formative years.
I genuinely had no idea that you could handle things another way.

Things happened to me, not with me - and certainly not because I worked to a desired outcome.

Having things happening to me gave me an inexhaustible source of reasons to drink....But I was only aware of that once I got myself out of the loop.

D

mcfearless

Hear Hear !

I've bitten my tongue (figuratively) a lot in my postings here when I've come across this. I think there's a culture here that sometimes is more enabling than helpful. I'm from the old school that sometimes a person needs some "tough love" when they are stuck in a cycle of self pity and eternal "victimhood". This new generation of ideas that promote political correctness, "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" and such utter nonsense has no place in the real world.

If you're sick and hurting yourself it won't help you to be told that your behaviour is understandable and normal and it's ok to fail....just try harder and if you fail again, we'll be here to tell you it's ok and fine and cuddle !

This isn't some high school competition where everyone get's a participation award. Alcoholism doesn't play fair. Get serious about this game or you'll end up dead.

Dee74

A lot of people misunderstand tough love I think, or at least forget about the love bit.

Tough love can only really work if you have a relationship with the person you're trying to reach...otherwise you're just some random guy giving someone else a hard time.

It might make you feel better, but it may not be doing the other person any good at all.

It's good to remember there are people behind these posts.

Addiction is life and death, sure - so it's really important to make your message count.

D

mcfearless

I get what you are saying.....but ! Addiction is a very REAL, ADULT PROBLEM best confronted with people with REAL, ADULT SOLUTIONS.

To stand nose to nose against it and stand any chance of overcoming it you're going to need to toughen up.....WITH YOURSELF ! You're the only person in the world who has the power to stop you using.

Deflecting the blame and rationalizing the behavior is denying yourself the belief that you're responsible for your actions. You are your own free agent who makes his or her own choices. And YOU need to make a choice to stop using ! When you fail it's because of you ! You made a bad choice ! When you achieve it's because of you ! I don't see how we help anyone on when we underplay their bad choices and enable and encourage the voice in their head that tells them failure to make the right choice is acceptable.

Without understanding this you've got no chance.

I'm struggling to stop smoking now. When I do quit smoking I do know it's going to be a tough ride. If I fail I'll blame myself for being weak. And rightly so and I'll be hard on myself. Anyone who then comes in and says "It's ok Mcfearless, it's ok to have one once in a while, your intentions are good" is doing me no favors ! They're breaking down my healthy shame I should have for harming my body and health. Hopefully with enough failures and shame I'll eventually learn to have that smoke is just not worth it.

Everyone should take a course in Pavlov/Skinner/classical conditioning etc if they are serious about understanding their basic behavior.

Dee74

Some people respond really well to tough talk. Others don't.
You really have to 'read' the person before you make your response.

It's entirely possible to be straight talker, and have compassion and empathy.
It's always good to leave the person we're talking to with a little hope too

If we drive people away with our response then we're not doing it right

D

mcfearless

There's no gift you can offer someone in life that offers more hope than this idea : You are the master of your own fate !

Soothing someone's failure is not giving them hope. It's reinforcing the idea that their choices are not in their control.

Dee74

Have a good day mcfearless

D

RobbyRobot

I started drinking age 12. By 15 I was FUBAR. I'm thinking addiction is not just an adult problem. It would have made me laugh if you had said to me at 12 I didn't have a drinking problem and at 15 I didn't have a full on addiction problem... by 18 I wasn't laughing anymore...

The tougher I got with myself the more I was able to drink and drug, so being tough wasn't the answer for me. What I really needed was to soften my already harden heart, open my already closed mind, and reach out and get some friggin' help. As for being the only person in the world to stop me from using I agree the buck stops with me.

Hoping for enough failures so as to shame yourself into changing an addictive behavior into extinction is really not worth doing, and even if you manage to quit, you've also taught yourself that shame and failure are the foundations to your success. This strategy going forward seems to ignore the shame you already have for smoking, and since this shame hasn't already made you quit, its doubtful the shame game is working well for you, yeah?

Anyways, who am I? Well, I'm 33 years sober and I'm real familiar with shame and failure in my life. I've had some tough times. I'll have times again, lol. I can tell you using shame to get me to do something good always failed. You might want to tell me I didn't use it right, and that is okay. I do have decades of sobriety without using shame and blaming myself for my troubles, so I have that working for me.

Tough love, eh? Dee is right when he says tough love is mostly misunderstood. You really do need a working relationship with whomever you want to tough love. You also need their agreement things wont be pretty, otherwise, yeah, you're just some random guy on a soapbox talking tough and looking mean. Big deal.

I've worked in rehab helping ex-cons, paroles, and other street addicts. They are a tough crowd to help. These guys do tough love 24/7 everywhere they go when they are hurting. And when they are not hurting, they are some of the nicest guys around. Trying to get their hurt out and them not turning tough is not easy. Anyone who is hurting, the last thing they need is to be kicked around some more by some guy talking tough.

What did work was they would get tough with me as they got their hurt out and I would stay as calm as can be. I didn't cave, and I didn't quit on them as they spilled their guts getting that hurt out. It wasn't about me. It was about them. They needed to know someone cared enough to stand by them. They didn't need to get tougher...

Tough love. Yeah. Sometimes just standing by others is tough enough, yeah?

Anyways. Have a good day and so on.