markz

Learn to drink less does not compute to an alcoholic!!!!!!!!
I would suggest to learn just not drink.

You can sure try and see how it works out by controlling or moderating your drinking. But I have found for myself that does not work, I have also heard many others say it does not work!

Nonsensical

I like drinking less less than I like not drinking.

Aellyce

My experience. I kept trying to drink less (or at least not to drink more) for about 4 years - zero success. It was becoming more and more instead. When I decided to finally take complete quitting seriously, I have been able to maintain it now for nearly 10 months without relapse.
I guess it proves the math: zero is more (successful) than a small positive number.

KChance

That is why I came here, I don't believe I have crossed that line, don't classify myself as an alcoholic. I want to prevent getting there.

markz

I wonder if I can give a slightly different angle to this common question.
Alcohol is actually a poison.
So if you drink Bug Poison, why would anyone try to drink less of it?
Wouldnt you want to give it up completely?

I realize today that alcohol is exactly that, its poison.
When I drink it, strange things happen. Then those strange things that happen become more and more frequent and they are not so strange anymore, they are "Normal" to me. But not normal to the average population.

A regular "normal" drinker, never blacks out. They do not come to an addiction website to learn how to drink normally, or moderate their drinking. They do not go to jail, or even the drunk tank. They loose very little, due to their drinking. They might lose, $10 for a 6 pack where they drink 3 cans, they get a little light headed and stop. They put the other 3 cans in the fridge where it sits for months on end, or they throw it out.

We dont come here by accident.

LexieCat

K, give it a shot if you must. The Big Book of AA suggests that if you want to figure out if you're an alcoholic, try a little controlled drinking. Try stopping abruptly a few times. See how you feel.

Just a heads-up, though, most people who find themselves concerned about the amount they are drinking HAVE already crossed that line. I'm not saying not to try it, but if you do, be very VERY honest with yourself about how you feel when you try it.

Because, trust me, things can get a LOT WORSE, very QUICKLY.

And if you find that out about yourself, guess what? It isn't the end of the world. You just don't drink. Lots of people don't drink for a variety of reasons, but knowing that there is something about the way you respond to alcohol is the very best reason in the world.

KChance

I will say I haven't blacked out since college. I don't drink to the point of being drunk every time. I drink till i feel the buzz. sometimes i try and keep the buzz going throughout the night, sometimes not, just dpeneds on if I get a headache or not. Usually try to preven those from happening.

dsmaxis10

It could work for a while it did for me then I was as worse off as ever. Six days today I struggle to stay sober harm reduction doesn't work for me. Had four years sober in AA then I drank been two years since then the longest I got was 4.5 months since that first relapse.

Another

Great question! I based my happiness and reward of hard work with being able to drink and get drunk. For years the effect became less and I followed my gut to change for the sake of a new experience. (everything gets old after a while lets face it) Blowups with a hot temper and high anxiety along with physical health declining before my time were huge motivators. Living alone really allows you to face the truth of ones own actions. I think from 25-30 weaning back was a desire but it got old as well. Secret here was that I was drinking less which lead me towards where I am now. Not drinking intoxicants is a virtuous act, Having a clear mind to help someone which needs to be heard is as well.

Whats cool now after 5 years sobriety is I see that anything is possible.
Good luck

Crossfitdad

This is a very long post and may constitute a manifesto. Also while reading it, please understand that it is jaded from previous comments on this site regarding moderation and may come off a bit defensive. If you read defensiveness, understand the background. So, here we go:

I haven't posted here in quite some time - I think late spring or early summer. And when I did, I posted about moderation and got slammed with the common remarks:

1. If you don't have a drinking problem, you wouldn't be here.
2. If you think you have a drinking problem, you probably do.
3. An alcoholic cannot moderate.

Regrettably, I let those folks get to me and I fired back in an improper way. I haven't posted here since because I haven't really concerned myself with this forum and also any post I would make would be in regards to moderation. I see no sense in posting about moderation unless a thread invites it - which this one did. Looking back, you're not going to get the answer you want starting a thread about moderation - the answer lies within yourself, your self discipline and your outlook on life. Nevertheless, the question was proffered and I will answer with my experience. I will recap my whole life in drinking for those who don't know.

I started drinking when I was 20. Before that, I never had an interest in it. We would go out and drink Thursday night through Saturday night in college - no big deal, we were young and would get drunk. On only one occasion through college did I get blackout drunk, but we had our hangovers, etc. After college I went back home to attend professional school. I probably went two or three weeks at a time without a drink and then would have one night when I'd meet my future wife (she was still in school in another town) and we would drink - nothing serious, maybe 7-8 beers.

My wife and I got married about 13 years ago. I would drink maybe once or twice a week - sometimes I would pile up 10-12 beers (natural lights - weak stuff). My wife would laugh because she'd come downstairs and I had made a stack of beers from the floor about 5-6 feet high. I had a few hangovers - nothing serious. Then we moved to another town which I did not like at all. I got to the point where I was really stressed over work and would drink a six pack of natural light tallboys every night. Everyday I would feel like hell and I would want to drink to make it go away. It became a cycle: wake up feeling like hell and feel better by noon, but filled with anxiety. I'd drink at night to make the anxiety go away. I was young and ignorant and I didn't realize that the drinking was causing the anxiety, which caused more drinking.

Finally we moved from that town to where we are living now. We couldn't immediately sell our house in the former town, so we lived with family for about 2 months. I went for those 2 months without drinking. We finally moved out and bought our new house after the old one sold. I practiced with a group for a few years - I was very successful. I would still drink my 6 pack of tallboys every night - some nights I wouldn't touch a sip, some nights I'd have 3 some nights 4 and some nights 5. Mornings would suck on the 5+ drink nights. I still had the anxiety. I would drink some hard liquor every now and then if I was gaining weight.

Then I opened my own business and by chance discovered that there were different and tastier beers than Budweiser, natural light, etc and I eventually made my way to India Pale Ales - God I love IPAs. I continued drinking 5-6 of these a night (sometimes 7 because they were smaller than the tallboys I was used to). At that time I didn't realize that these beers were carrying an alcohol content of 5.5% to 7.5% while natural light was around 4.2%. Once I learned that, I starting figuring out that even though I was drinking a 12 oz beer rather than a 16 oz beer, there was probably a little more alcohol in it. I had an idea that I was drinking too much, but I never thought too much about it. I was still going to work, it wasn't causing family problems, nobody said anything, etc. Then I started to notice that I was having a lot of anxiety and trouble sleeping. If I drank 6 of those higher abv beers, I would wake up around 3-4 in the morning with terrible anxiety and couldn't sleep. It took me a while to figure out that it was the alcohol doing it. I got sick and tired of the hangovers. So I decided to cut back a little. Then I noticed when I didn't drink I couldn't fall asleep - I wasn't normally falling asleep, I was pretty much passing out!!

Then one Lent I decided to give up drinking for 40 days. I did that no problem. After that was over, I resorted back to my ordinary drinking. Hangovers pretty much every morning. It was taking a toll on me. I didn't want to quit, but I knew I couldn't go on the way I was. So, I found this site when I googled alcoholism (my great uncle was a terrible drunk - he would binge for weeks at a time). After reading all the threads on this site I started to think "damn, I'm an alcoholic". (note to folks: Dr. Google is a very pessimistic health care provider). I decided to quit for good and went to an AA meeting. I couldn't identify with those people - these were people my age who had destroyed their lives and ruined their families and businesses. I couldn't sit around with a bunch of people each trying to outdo the other with war stories and battle scars. I decided that a personal threat that if I didn't control my drinking I would have to go to an AA meeting for punishment. My wife (who drinks very little - about 1-2 beers per night - only seen her drunk once in my life) was flabbergasted - she said "you're not an alcoholic, but if you are concerned, you just need to control your drinking". But after reading this site I thought that was impossible and that it was an all or nothing type thing.

So, I set off on a life of sobriety. I felt some pangs of withdrawal: sleepless nights, night sweats and a pounding heart rate. Nothing too bad. I spent at least a month in sobriety. My wife really started to get annoyed with me. I was too serious and always wanting to go to bed early and my sex drive plummeted. I became judgmental of those who drank. I figured that I was becoming someone I didn't want to be. Although I felt great - no more anxiety, blood pressure dropped, etc I decided I couldn't live a life of complete sobriety.

So, I decided to start drinking in moderation. Before I knew it, I was back to 4-5 beers about every night and 5-6 on the weekend nights. Then I found myself here again and really pissed off. I thought I could moderate, but I really couldn't. Then I started to notice that I really wasn't feeling well - I started imagining that I had pains in my right side (liver!). I made a promise to myself and my family that I would make a change.

Since about April I think (I'm not really counting so I can't really remember), I've been trying to moderate. I started off drinking 4-5 beers per night and 5-6 on the weekend nights. I did that for about two weeks. Then I moved to 3 -4 per night and 4-5 on the weekends, slowly tapering off. Some nights I would have 2 glasses of wine instead. I visited my brother and got tipsey once or twice over that time period - nothing crazy like I used to when I was young, but had a good time. I still allow myself that freedom - I've never hurt anyone and I don't get out of control.

For the past 5-6 months or so, I have been tapering to a point where I can easily move to not drinking every night. As of the past month or so, I'm down to drinking 2 beers per night. I'll have those beers and think "man another one would really put me where I want to be" and I'll have a little brief conversation in my head and pass knowing that it will make me feel worse the next day and will probably end up escalating the next day. I have the same conversation when eating too much ice cream - but I usually lose on the ice cream negotiations. I should be to 1-2 beers per night here pretty soon.

I've always struggled with my eating over the years. I love food. I know that if I really let myself, I would eat until I was 350 lbs. I view drinking the same way. I've got to have some willpower. Drinking is a dangerous game for ANYONE and if I don't remain vigilant, I'm going to end up in the same place I was two years ago and I don't want to be there. Drinking is a privilege and with that privilege comes responsibility. I want to get to the point where I don't drink every night during the week, but I really like having that relaxation of 2 beers - it's a mental thing right now - I deal with people's problems all day long and I should be allowed to responsibly enjoy life. I am a very analytical person and I analyze ever freaking thing in my life. I've created the person I am over the years by drinking too much - it now is who I am.

I will have my rare occasions where I overindulge (once every other month or so) - that's life. Everyday as I see my kids grow up and I grow older, I realize that life is very very short. If you enjoy something and you're not hurting yourself or anyone else, you should be able to do that in moderation - if you can handle it. I'm handling it now. I never had a drink during the day - never missed work - never hurt anyone -never been on a binge and I'm under control. So if you think you can moderate, try it.

I will end this post by laying out all of the expected comments I can imagine from the neigh-sayers along with a quick retort:

1. Wow! you really think too much about your drinking than a normal person. You're alcoholic just like me! Well, I also think about the following things more than a normal person : 1. am I eating healthy?, 2. did I love my family enough today?, 3. did I work out enough today?, 4. did I give my all to my clients today?, 5. did I spend too much time on the internet today?, 6. what grade do I give myself for my performance in life today? why am I such a bum - I didn't mow the lawn like I should have?

2. your idea of moderation seems like too much work I'd say it's not for me. I enjoy what I do and if I have to remain responsible and vigilant, so be it. I'd say that counting days and earning chips for sobriety is just as much work and just as much nonsense.

3. if you think you have a problem, you probably do Nonsense. I worry about all kinds of stuff - that doesn't mean it's true. It's called being a human being with the ability of abstract thought.

Gottalife

Crossfitdad,
I agree with almost everything you say. You probably have some level of diagnosable alcohol use disorder as per DSM IV, but the phenomenon of craving doesn't seem to be a part of it. That might suggest that the problem as such is at a lower level than full blown alcoholism. Moderation could well be a solution for you. This, of course, would be music to the ears of an alcoholic, this being the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. But moderation is usually the first line of attack by the mental health professionals.

The bad news is that even controlled drinking, at the levels you are talking about, will put you in an early grave. Alcohol is the same class carcinogenic as cigarettes. Two standard drinks a day is equivalent to five cigarettes a week.

You sound like the AA hard drinker. They can stop or moderate if they have a good enough reason. I always wanted to be one of these, but I lacked the control. The hard drinkers I knew, by the way, all died in their fifties, cancer and heart disease, so be careful what you wish for.

The idea that just being here and asking questions means you have a problem doesn't make sense to me either. Over the years I have met dozens of non alcoholics in AA meetings. Some are responding to publicity about excess alcohol consumption and making a sensible investigation, many are lonely hearts and mental health patients who come for a cup of tea and a bit of a social life. We don't turn anyone away. And of course we get people with other addictions.

The term alcohol use disorder is very wide ranging. It covers everyone who exceeds the recommended daily intake. The the impact may be mild to severe, but only a small minority are in the class I would understand to be alcoholic. The majority will stop or moderate, grow out of it, and live normal lives without much in the way of outside help.

While I couldn't in all conscience suggest that your level of consumption isn't a health problem for you, it may not be a mental health problem.
All the best.

Crossfitdad

Thank you for the insight. I realize it isn't heathy. That's why I am slowly trying to reduce to not drinking during the week. I'll check in in a few months.

andyroo72

Hey Crossfitdad,

Thanks for your post. I'm still digesting it. I know your slant doesn't work for me personally, we're different people.

But it made me really really aware that we really need to be kind to each other. There's something about problem drinking and alcoholism that seems to bring out the combativeness in people. We create in-group out-group stuff, we come up with monolithic statements about everyone and try and 'enforce' them. I think there's something we're just not doing right when you get excluded for thinking what you think. I'm truly sorry for that. Maybe we all need a kick in the ass.

tomsteve

One thing I believe is that people that ask about Learning to drink less over completely stopping are past the point of being able to moderate.

am658

I was drinking a half bottle of vodka per night for a year, when I found "this isn't giving me the same buzz", so I decided I'd drink NOT more than an extra serving. I woke up the next morning and I'd consumed 3/4 of a ten glass. This continued until it was nearly a full ten glass. For me, the ONLY thing that will work is stopping completely. I'm cursed with an addictive personality I'm afraid.

But who knows, try it and see. But DON'T try it for too long. I know the feeling of denial...

All the best to you

Dee74

CFD it's taken you 5-6 months to cut down to 2 every night.

Genuine questions:
How long do you expect it to take for you to cut down to drinking nothing in a week?

and are you seriously presenting your method as 'successful' enough to present as a possible manifesto* for others (*your word not mine)?

D

LexieCat

Yeah, takes me back to my four years or so of "moderation". I still have the little sticky note pad I used to mark my drinks on. It was, to put it mildly, more "immoderate" than moderate.

It SOOOO wasn't worth the trouble. We all gotta do what we gotta do, I guess, but I wish I had those four years of my life back.

Fly N Buy

It depends......

If you're a pickle, you'll never be a cucumber again

barefootjunker

Kchance, let us know how all this goes. This is a novel concept to try and not become an alcoholic, none of us have ever tried this before. We all want to learn how.

That being said, the rest needs said. Not going to be nice and enabling either.

Your wasting your time with asking a bunch of drunks how to moderate your drinking. If this is what you want to do we do not have that answer. I honestly see this whole thread as nothing more then a help me by a person that knows deep down that they need help. Moderation from drunks is not help. Better to ask the qualifying this same question, they will have all types of theories, I promise.

So now you have multiple suggestions to just not drink and know that there is help here to do that. We are not here to learn how to drink, we are here to help each other in a path that is alcohol and drug free, living a better life then we did when drinking. Myself, I will help when and if you decide that a non practicing lifestyle is what you want. I can't even begin to help you moderate.

LadyinBC

This question alone should raise a red flag for you. People who don't have a drinking problem don't obsess over when, where and how much they should drink. It wouldn't occur to them to even do this. They can take the drink or leave it, they don't worry about when they can have it.

The less I tried to drink, the more obsessed I became with when I could drink and the more I drank when I finally did allow myself to drink. Moderating is a losing cycle for the alcoholic, at least it certainly was for me.

Quite frankly it's a relief to be off the merry-go-round.