Thirdtime

Moderate? Nope. No more than I can half way jump off a cliff. Once I jump and have that first drink, no stopping until I hit the ground. And if I tried again, the landing may very well kill me.

One only gets so many second chances. I can't jump in the cage with this lion called alcoholism anymore. I drink, I die. Period.

Soberwolf

This I have spent time thinking on this past week for those who believes moderation exists

If someone was drinking alcoholically and then cut down to the point it was just at weddings/celebrations it would still be in the alcoholics life its kinda like abstinence but every now and then I can have some

Here's the problem its not abstinence is it because of cutting back do you think it is truly possible that if it was a problem then and no matter how small the amount you drink now at weddings/celebrations that it has a massive chance of coming back because of such drinks at weddings/celebrations

And I'm not just saying this to ridicule I think a wedding/celebration is a absolute hotnest if you once had a problem and have now cut back for me alcohol is in the door it only takes 1 drink not for me but all of us and that's the point this person must have thought he/she had a problem to begin with by being here

I shouldn't say this but it is possible to possibly control it for a short period but before long it will bring you back to SQ1 I see it happen daily I'm under no illusion of what alcohol is and how powerful its become

The truth is this website and the souls that got sober only care in whatever way its getting said ppl here care

Wish I found this place sooner

Bailey3

Yesterday I commented on this thread. I tried to put some humor in my answer. If this offended anyone I apologize. My answer is definitely "no"to drinking in moderation. One would lead to many and, many would lead to months of drinking. If I were to keep drinking it would be the death of me.

Arbor

To play devils advocate a bit I think a lot of people stumble on to this site because they think they might have a problem. After some time and research they determine they are not alcoholic. Just problematic drinkers. Don't you think it's possible for these folks to use this site and information to seriously cut back, limit their consumption radically changing their lifestyle?

I'm not speaking for myself btw. I voted no.

jdooner

Someone criticized one of my posts bc I used Google to search some info, lol. In today's age of instant gratification and information, we need to acknowledge that self diagnosis is a big deal. It happens daily. This has led to massive wealth creation in big pharma, particularly now with advertisements. Most Drs are overwhelmed with Google Drs. as patients telling the Dr. what their ailment might be and what their prescription needs to be. In this same context, many find this site in my opinion as the first steps towards recovery. The anonymous nature offers protection, and the access anywhere offers safety for those concerned that they might have a problem to get more information. Not everyone that graces these pages is an alcoholic - that is just fact. Some might be able to return to moderate drinking. However, if the question is can the alcoholic or addict every return to normal use defined by moderation, well that is a wholly different debate.

I find this entire thread simple. It is providing a rather obvious result from a rather loaded question. To me what would be interesting is the science behind regrowth of grey matter or the ability to form new neuro pathways. In this sense it would then be interesting how one could over time rewire our brains. To me as a recovered alcoholic and addict, I find this discussion to be more academic, as I am creating a sober life and have no desire to ever go back to where I was at. I would also imagine that if I damaged my own brain and pathway systems over say fifteen years then it would figure it would take roughly the same about of sober time to fix things. By that time, I can't imagine ever desiring to go back and tempting the life that one creates and enjoys from being recovered. So it then becomes moot.

Therefore, my conclusion would be this entire thread is circular in nature.

anattaboy

Valid point Jd. The want to see others quit sooner is in everyone's heart but if arresting problem drinking early enough can save one from the pain I have seen, can it also offer moderation for those with the brain cells still intact? Is there a benefit? For those of us whose ship has sailed this is redundant but noting the expansive nature of this site, should it also include experiences of those at this stage? or should we have a singleness-of-purpose like AA?

Pete55

NO, there is no moderation

jdooner

Anattaboy - would you have abstained having known intellectually what you would eventually experience if you had a report that mapped things for you to begin with? Herein for me lies an important question.

Is this not what some religions do? The Mormon religion abhors alcohol for religious purposes, as well as swearing, sexual relations out of wedlock, etc. Is this not using fear to "save" those from entering Dante's Inferno? In a way this approach, which has been practiced for much longer than AA is a way to cast a board net to protect a few, is it not?

I wonder how many would believe this? I lived in Utah for a few years. I soon realized there were "Jack Mormons" who rebelled against the strict preachings of their parents. These were the kids that experimented with the unknown - a dance with the devil if you will. My friends. Some became addicts but not all.

Is this not the question of faith? I mean if you believe and I mean truly believe then you would never touch alcohol or drugs and therefore would never know if you were indeed an addict.

I find moderation such an interesting yet foreign concept to me, not just with drinking. I guess this once again highlights my true addict nature. Why limit something that feels good? If one is good is two not better?

Why is moderating important when dealing with a poison? Alcohol in moderation is all about social interaction. I mean alcohol is a diarrhetic, offers no health benefits and adds empty calories to a diet. Other than the social acceptance associated with alcohol I fail to see the benefits. Unless of course you are deficient and alcohol is providing something...in a way self medicating. I wonder how many alcoholics and addicts are actually dopamine deficient and using our shared DoC to self medicate? Here is where I believe science may help with addiction. Being able to determine if for example a B6, B12, Magnesium supplement may provide what alcohol is providing from a neurological perspective?

dsmaxis10

With GOD nothing impossible

dSober

Me too wolf, me too.

dSober

Me too, now that you mention it. I also wonder, sometimes, how many addicts, and others, are spiritually deficient. Other times, I think I have some idea, especially when I read the news.

dwtbd

I've thought about whether people who experience addiction may have different brain chemistries and how this may affect their emotional states. It seems on some level to perhaps be, if not an explanation , at least a path of research. But ..on another level, if it turns out that an individual is deficient or at least different in their levels in regards to others or the 'norm', whatever the levels may be are they not that individual's levels?
If one's brain chemistry is different , it is still the one they have. How would one 'know' something is missing, hence tha 'need' for self medication. Unless the levels vary or somehow change radically through one's lifetime.
Even if your brain chemistry is different from xyz,that does not mean you will have knowledge of the experience of it being otherwise.
Either way addictions can be ended by ending the use of the substance.

dSober

I agree, bring on the rats. Ain't gonna change the solution.

matt4x4

The solution for me is firm, and embedded in rock and concrete, and its been a proven remedy for the disease of alcoholism.

MrTumble

There should be third poll option:

3/ "Sometimes I think I can"

jaynie04

My integrative doctor did some genetic testing and found I had a mutation that is found in addicts at higher rates than the general pop.(FTHMR gene) It affects our bodies ability to synthesize folate. I was put on Deplin which has been labeled a medicinal food. Giving Antidepressants a Boost With a Vitamin - WSJ

I am not expecting a magic bullet in my lifetime but I do hope that future generations will continue to benefit from advances in this field.

MrSticky

Please excuse my phrasing - I am not a native English speaker.

I did not have a drink since last January and it took a great deal of willpower - many of you guys probably know what it takes to stop.
My plan is to continue totally sober until next January and then I MIGHT try to drink with moderation.
I understand that starting drinking would bring in a much higher risk of relapse and am not sure if it's worth it - I am getting more and more used to staying sober, so why risk it then? For the few social events when all the normal (non-alcoholic) people have a few glasses and I would very much like to join in? Dunno yet, I'll mull over it
If I will decide to go with it I will set some very strict rules - no more than 14 a week or 4 in a day and only on social occasions - never alone.
Right now I am following a very strict rule (do not drink anything) so if I will follow another one with the same resolve, all would be OK, I guess.

If I ever decide to do it - I will document it on the forum and let you know how it goes.

I found a study online stating that half of the recovering alcoholics in US are moderating with success, but cannot post the link because I'm new to the forum, but you can google for "alcohoolics can recover" David J. Hanson, Ph.D and find it.

DoubleDragons

Not to hijack this post, but Mr. Sticky, I am willing to bet that when you make it to year, some kind of mental shift will have happened where you will go, "Why would I put that poison into my mind, body and soul?" I am going to be one year sober on 9/29, and I can tell you that it wasn't until about a month ago that the final mental shift happened to me as to where I completely and totally like being a non-drinker and I see myself being a non-drinker for the rest of my life. It is so freeing!!

Mountainmanbob

it can take a while to be lifted
you must have fought a good battle
excellent
that is why they say " don't leave before the miracle happens"

for me not to want a drink today is a miracle

MM

Dee74

Hi MrSticky - welcome

Glad you joined us.

The idea that time off drinking can re-set us is a persuasive one...I think most alcoholics have dreamt of that.

Do read around tho - you'll read stories of folks who went a year, two years, 5 years, 10, 20 or more - without a drink, then drank again and the same old stuff happened...but worse.

Just my opinion of course, but I think the information here is more reliable and more compelling than any research grant-driven academic studies

D