esinger

Alcohol is an inanimate object and has no power. It is a conscious decision to drink. If you drink too much for too long you become physically addicted. It is an escape mechanism that appeals to our animal instinct of fight or flight. Some people are stronger emotionally than others and don't give into these instincts when there insecurities and anxiety gets the best of them. Unfortunately this was not me and I chose the easy path and became physically and mentally addicted to my drug of choice vodka. Almost two years sober now and it isn't always easy but it was my choice. I had wreaked my share of destruction. Only I have the power to change my dysfunctional behavior. I don't have a disease or an allergy or the devil to blame I have me and only me and I AM NOT POWERLESS! Give yourself some credit recovering people! You deserve it.

MaidenNZ

Interesting results

dSober

EXACTLY! That is exactly what "Alcoholics Anonymous" said in 1939 when it documented the problem and a solution. It describes a step by step, methodical method for digging out and listing all the crap that we've been trying to cover up with the consumption of alcohol or a billion other possible destructive, obsessive behaviours.

Many people find that they simply can't do that kind of thorough soul searching "alone". That's why some kind of Higher Power is suggested and the idea of our own powerlessness is brought up. By humbling ourselves, by admitting powerlessness, we reveal the need for a Higher Power. Some find they can do without but many, like myself, tried, hard, but found, repeatedly, they just couldn't. I had to get humble and I found I'm a hell of a lot happier, and more at peace with the world, than I ever would have been had I not.

The common link seems to be you gotta want it, real bad. You gotta want peace and sobriety bad enough to change yourself and do whatever it takes to get it.

BackToSquareOne

With a very strong addiction there is a perceived sense of powerlessness, science clearly understands the brain chemestry behind it. I don't think AA was really that far off base when they used the term, had they of said "We perceive ourselves to be powerless", would it really have mattered? Don't forget the brain science was not that well understood when the book was written.

dSober

And what is science's solution?

Zencat

I think Sigmund Freud and Carl Jung therapies were popular at the time.


I go with the 'high-jacked' brain theory. Drugs change both brain structure and function in a really ******-up way.

FeenixxRising

Just Google "secular recovery" for your answer.

dSober

Done that. Whatever works.

dSober

I believe Freud stayed out of it. Jung threw up his hands and referred to the spiritual solution being pursued by the Oxford group, later to become AA. Entrepeneurs came along with scientific solutions later.

FeenixxRising

If you've "done that", then you know there are recovery methods based on science. So there was no need to ask the question. Unless you just wanted to push buttons?

jaynie04

What I find disconcerting is the reification of a concept that was borne out of fluid thinking. From my understanding, AA evolved during the course of Bill W's lifetime. He was fearless in his search for answers. He also understand the finiteness of his life and the fact that having something that presented an organized outline (the BB) would allow his concept and methodology to endure and to be disseminated even after he was gone.

I wonder where the program would be if he had lived 200 years? I am by no means a scholar on the BB, but I do believe there are allusions and acknowledgement that there was always room for more learning.

I think that seeing "entrepreneurs" with scientific solutions as a separate camp is likely where much of my resistance lies. In his day, Bill W would have been included in that camp, he was an innovator, but the pickings regarding addiction and science were slim. I think the BB in many ways pulls at the concept of neuroplasticity, and behavioral modification. Our knowledge of these processes was much more rudimentary 100 years ago. And in 100 years what we know today will likewise appear parochial.

I have often wondered..where would AA be today if Bill was still alive? I think he would be first in line to embrace scientific findings, and I think he would have maintained fluidity and shunned reification of his initial concept.

jdooner

I attend AA and have completed my steps too. I have also mapped my genome to gain insight into genetic mutations. I have learned from this process - conclusively that I am dopamine deficient. I take vitamins and I feel better with this regimen. I see a therapist and I have practiced parts of Rational Recovery - I leave out the rhetoric in both programs.

A good and true alcoholic will argue about how the elephant looks with blinders on. But the elephant still exists. Just as there is no one program for everyone there is no one program. There are parts that can work. I needed the steps to change how I lived my life not just abstain from a drink RR's AVRT would have worked fine with that. I believe I need other things too to give me what I need for this part of my journey.

DSober, careful whenever you say "been there, done that." It implies being closed and our program suggests remaining open. Even science is teaching us that we know less than we think we know. What science can't explain is often referred to as spiritual. It could be things that are spiritual now will be scientifically concluded later.

Besides if we knew al the answers what would be the point of journeying?

Boleo

IMO it would have been a lot clearer to have said:

"We are powerless to get the obsession out of our head".

dSober

I said "done that", not "been there". I googled "secular recovery". I've also read about it here. That's what I meant.

dSober

This whole thread is to ask a question; not expect a definitive answer.

esinger

Wow, turned into a heated debate of ideals. You can tell those who are seeking the ever illusive blinding white light from those that figured out they can just reach over and flip the switch.

ForgetfulKevin

I'm as powerless over alcohol as I am over pet rocks, high-efficiency detergent, or robo-zombie cult evangelists.

Dee74

A little mutual respect for opposing ideas or differing schools of thought would go a long way in this thread methinks.

Dee
Moderator
SR

ForgetfulKevin

It's a flat world after all.

MrDavid

The answer is a resounding, yes. I’m still powerless of alcohol, even today. In fact, I’m powerless in more ways than you can imagine.

Think about it; how many times have we heard that phrase before? Numerous times I bet. Would we take it at face value without realizing the consequences? Well, would we? The relevancy here is mind blowing. Just imagine what would happen if a diabetic forgot their insulin shot. The consequences would be endless.

Now imagine what would happen if a recovering alcoholic felt empowered again. Can they go through life without feeling the strain of untreated alcoholism? Can they overcome any obstacle without the slightest hint of remorse, or will they fold under the pressure and become addicted again? It’s a lot of ‘questions marks’ in my book.

The truth is; I would rather remain true to my cause then to question my sobriety ever again. It’s the only way to put the past behind me.