tomsteve

if yer concerned about people who cant read, instead of yer condescending 'fat chance" mumbo jumbo comments,you can offer a solution, which there is. you could do what I did and get copies of the BB on C Dand tape for just such occasions.
but then im thinkin im gonna read,"fat chance that would do for someone who doesn't have a CD or tape player.'
which theres also solutions for, like having spares on hand.

dSober

Me too. I had to stop trying to run the show; I'm a lousy director.

Zencat

I played the fool under the direction of alcohol/drugs. I am but an actor involved in a health welcoming play. The director is of my kind. Understandable and evident in my daily life. We share the same goal, betterment for all involved.

desypete

of course i offer a solution, i tell people to go to aa there is where the solution can be found if you can read or not.
in aa they will find people just like them
in aa they will find there not alone anymore
in aa they will find there own path and not one that i will tell them to take or try to make them take, by forcing a book under there nose. or trying to make them repeat it word for word and tell them this is the soloution as thats just controling in my eyes and the people who try this way are just interested in controling others not helping them

desypete

for example
i often say sorry when i break wind loudly with a smile on my face, people dont believe i am sorry at all : )

Zencat

Yea, pushing, controlling, suggestions with direr consequences of a fail to follow alienated me from a program promoted from Any-O-Joe of AA.

I discovered some meaningful use of AA 12 Steps on my own. Independent of HP/God, a simple plan emerged. Do or Die. Stop drinking regardless of powerless, and other interesting concepts that ultimately proved useless in my release from alcohol.

dSober

I wouldn't either, proud maybe.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, assumptions are common when forming valid arguments. Your assumption there is time to train, not so much holds validity.

Nitpicking semantics is it? This would be a convenience for you if it were so. My opinion holds its own. Yours seems to speak to me as a person. How did that add to the conversation?

dSober

So... Nice day here today. How 'bout elsewhere?

desypete

lol well they told me in aa to ditch the ego and be who i really am : ) and most of all be honest
sometimes maybe i am a little to honest ? as i admit it was me these days who broke wind instead of trying to blame others : )

now back to this never ending argument.

i am powerless over other people and how they see things. but i am not powerless over myself or my actions.

at one time in my drunken mess i was totally powerless to even get up in the morning without first reaching out for the first drink to steady myself or my shakes, i would even throw up first to get that drink inside of me
such was the insanity of my thinking.

today its not like that anymore and i can only thank all the people in aa who shared with me and helped me grow and still help me grow, even the people i dont agree with in aa help me grow, as i dont want what they have : )

my promise to those guys is i will help anyone were i can and i will help the fellowship of aa as i believe in it with all my heart

when i look back today at where i have come from and how it all changed from the first day i entered the rooms of aa i dont need any more convincing that aa works

have a quick look at this thread and see from others how happy they are at finding out that they can do normal everyday things sober
i can remember being just like those guys when i came to see i could go out of my front door without the need for drink ( i take that for granted these days)
i enjoyed reading this thread and it wasnt about aa or god etc it was just people waking up to there first days being sober : )

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-saturday.html

that is all i am interested in really is seeing others find sobriety. what a buzz : )

dSober

I prefer discussion.

SoberHoopsFan

Nope. I have as much alcohol as I want every single day, and that amount is zero. That is power. That is control. It is those that still drink despite knowing the negative consequences that alcohol can lead to, and choosing to drink anyway, they are the ones who are powerless over the drug.

Here's an analogy - if you knew someone that sometimes used heroin, but only on Friday or Saturday nights, or on special occasions, or on vacation, or on a birthday, and only in moderate doses (but occasionally the night where they did too much and felt sick). And then you knew someone else that never used heroin. Who would you say had power over heroin and who would you say was powerless? Insert alcohol into the equation. And there's your answer on whether you have power over it in sobriety.

LBrain

After steady rain for what seemed like 20+ hours, the sun is shining brightly here. decisions, decisions

Am the only one who can say I was NEVER powerless over alcohol? The day I was sent home from work, I made a vow then to never drink again. That is the only time I said I would never drink again. Except going forward from that day. It hasn't been a struggle really. There were times in early sobriety I questioned whether I could drink again. That didn't last long. I knew I couldn't/shouldn't drink because of how it changed my life. And from all of the time I spend on this forum reading about others' experience, I am reminded constantly that if I CHOOSE to drink again I am an idiot. End of conversation for me.

RobbyRobot

Alcoholism as an illness is one school. As not, a wholly different school. And everything in between. I've experienced powerlessness in my alcoholism. I have while drunk not been able to bring myself to stop drinking. I would in fact drink even more so as to blackout or at least pass out. In these times I could clearly appreciate that when I awakened, I would have no better answer to my drunkenness then I already didn't have. I was clearly powerless within this kind of alcoholic mind to decide to quit for good and all. I could at times put the bottle down for a time. This is not quitting though, more like taking a break between drinks.

I haven't drank now for decades. My alcoholism illness has survived my quitting albeit in a state of remission. I'm powerless against my alcoholism. Alcohol itself has no meaning either way for me since I quit. It is remarkable to me how many persons make such a huge deal claiming what is so obviously true about alcohol consumption. Unless one has alcoholism as an ongoing active state, how could alcohol be of any importance relative to oneself being or not being powerless over?

Alcohol fueled my alcoholism. End of story. Without alcohol, the engine of my alcoholism is stopped. Being an illness of mind, body, and spirit, quitting was not enough for me to cause my alcoholism to be in remission. Alcoholism is not just another word for chronic alcohol consumption, for me anyways. I subscribe to the AA suggested understanding of alcoholism. I also enjoy the suggested remedy too.

Boleo

Well first of all, YES would indicate power, not powerless. So the results would be reversed.

And in my case, not having a choice would still be my answer. Before and after getting "recovered". It may be difficult to see for those who not experienced it (YET), but having to choose sobriety ODAAT is not all that powerful. If I had to choose not-drinking every day for the rest of my life, the chances of making the wrong choice would still be pretty high.

A much more reliable way for me to make it through life sober is to not need to choose anything in the first place. That's what a "Spiritual Awakening" did for me. It makes the choice for me. Before it even gets to that level of temptation.

Powerless = no choice.

Spiritual Awakening = no choice necessary.

desypete

you even argue over if its an argument or discussion lol : )

silentrun

Now you have done it!!!! The next poll shall be...are we arguing with each other or discussing? This is on you Desypete.

desypete

yep i guess i will have to do a quick amend before he reads my post : )

dSober

Lol, great idea! Yeah, on you Pete, too late.

dwtbd

Semantics of the question aside, it's not whether you are, it's do you think you are.