RobbyRobot

I don't think I misunderstand as much as I realize humanity is not just another species, so we philosophically just see things differently, you know? It matters like life n' death that our behavior is different than lower species. Top of the food chain doesn't afford the luxury of practicing equality with all other living things. There is philosophical merit in being one and the same as an end table relative to the universe, but that philosophy doesn't subscribe to food chains analogies, lol. It is no surprise that human history records the weakest and most vulnerable of life cry for equality, while the strongest and most protected as often choose to be philosophically blind and deaf as a practical remedy. Do any of us actually believe starvation is a natural consequence for millions of humans? And yet, there it is day after year after century and so an and whatever.

My psyche is unique since it is created and shaped by my experiences not only in time but also in space as well ie spacetime. As such, so are my observations. Einstein proved the universe is relative to the observer, so what I choose to distil as a workable reality is also on me. How we work with our observations and experiences relative to everything else that is not of ourselves is what makes us different from all other life on earth (at least) and from each other as well. Since we collectively will let our own starve to death, it is not surprising what we are capable of when it comes to ruling the planet, yeah?

I'm so much more than just another something. Life, with all its experiences is not just a weird arrangement that plays out until the dance is over. I understand how some want life to be all done when death comes knocking. For me, death can have my flesh. As for my psyche, not so fast, lol. For my psyche, death is a whole other dance if you can hear the music. Life finds a way kind of thing for me. For me, its loud and clear, and it has a beat you can dance with

And if anyone can't or doesn't or won't hear the music, so what, you know? You can't miss in death won't you don't realize in life, so what is the difference then anyways.

Soberpotamus

Send me some of that music, Robby I need to get in on this quickly, lol.

Cow

Okay Robot, yes, we has fundamental differences, but I still adores you, okay? For me, when you particular arrangement of atoms decay and disperse, you DONE. Stardust to stardust. Fair enough, I think. Universe have other thing to do beyond, as Hulk would say, "Puny human!"

And I does see human as "just other species." I know we really total into our extra glob of neocortex, and all it cogitating ability, but I think is hubris to think we all that and bag of chips. I say, give it couple million year and then assess how very special we is. Maybe we get prize like early newt for having "first legs" or something.

Einstein very intelligent as human go, but still he early human who perceive maybe 2% of universal energies. So does he end up to be correct about much to do with universe. Mmmmmm, maybe, but that would be long odds. I thinking probable not. LOVE the hair though.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, I'm lovin' you too, Cow

As for what makes up universe, don't get me started on dark matter and dark energy, lol. Most of universe is totally invisible to our science. Only theoretical laws of gravity even allow for appreciation of the darkness all around...

I enjoyed our little chat. As for stardust, yes my flesh is from such, and to such it will return. What makes me me though, not so fast, hahaha.

Cow

Moo Mwah, Robot, and I does hope you stays you, and plus also all infinite other things you was and forever will be. I mean, we probable not be forum chatting during all this times, but still.

fini

no, we're not.
and when people say "don't worry, you did your best", i'll sometimes say "no, i doubt that. in fact, no, i know i didn't". and the more, uh, rosy-glassed ones will insist we all do our best. all the time. it's clever. i can't very well then go and say" i think you could have done better!"

sometimes i do my best. and when i do, wow, does it feel satisfying. no matter how small the thing, no matter how imperfect it was.

these whole last posts have reminded me of Jean Vanier's book "Becoming Human". interesting concept, no? most of us probably think we already are

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...71667212,d.cGE

Cow

fini, I think main question of that book (What is it mean to be fully human?) is flawed and maybe even irrelevant. Cuz we is what we is and we does what we does. And so it has been and so it shall be. So many peoples want to wish and believe that they is some greater "ideal" that human is somehow meant to be. But just cuz we can dream of such ideals, is not mean we ever gonna be that. Is endless ancient fable and fairy tale and religious text that we never able to rise to.

I also total HATE when somebody say, "You did you did you best." And plus also ever popular, "When you know better, you do better." Um, I freaking know better, bitches! I has ability to think and reason and cogitate what would be better course of action, and, sorry, I not always do it, okay? But, again, how is this to be judged? I not sure, cuz, we do what we do (or not do) for whatever reason and all those reasons is still "fully" human.

alphaomega

You gotta lotta excuses to back up your reasoning why you can't, and you won't, cuz you can't and you don't, cuz you can't and why bother anyway ?

All Judgement aside, let's just say you are right. And we suck as a species and just because we have extra blob of neocortex and stardust, and atheist, and waste of space, and blah.

Ok, Cow, You are right.

Now what ?

The exact thing you are holding out for which disguised behind walls of prose and vitriol, is you want someone to understand you, to love you for who you are and who your are not. You want to be validated. And accepted for who you are. You are the most frustrated when you wanted a friend to understand you yet they were too caught up in themselves to hear you. I've seen this at least 3 times in your posts.

Yet, you go on an on about how you really don't give a single sh1t about anyone and their issues. And if you do find the energy to care, the ONLY one you are putting your energy into is YOU.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, - if you don't appreciate what you already have, what the hell makes you think you deserve more ?

Humans crave connection and understanding.

You say you don't care about others, but your posts drip with neediness.

Tell me, how exactly does that work ?

Cow

AO, we just having intellectual discussion/debate here about personal interpretation of universe and such, so I put forth my point of view. You not has to agree. And I not presume to be "right."

Yes, is nice to has some community. I does realize my perspective is share by very much small percentage of human. But few of them is here, so yay for me! I sorry if my perspective hurt you or bum you out. It only one I got.

I not wish to diminish you hopeful or positive nature, AO. I envy that, I would aspire to that, but: "Given how long it's taken for me to reconcile my nature, I can't imagine I'd forgo it on your account, Marty."

I not sure why you keep say "If I not appreciate what I already have, why I deserve more." First of all, I severe anhedonic/depressive and is hard for me to "appreciate" anything. Second, I has say many time how I appreciate little thing like my plants and hummingbird and caterpillar and coloring books and tiny dinosaur and various poem and good TV show and such. I sorry, that all I got for now. If that mean I not deserve to be happy, so be it. But that still my crazy dream.

RobbyRobot

Deserve hasn't much to do with getting, you know? Life isn't an example of fairness and deserving the way I see it for any of us I suppose.

Its not about getting more either. Maybe its more about working with what we got to work with.



((alphaomega))

dSober

Yes, life is hard. But it is doable.

Gilmer

It's best for your health and integrity to be sober and caffeine-free, Cow.

You have toughing this out for quite a few weeks now, I think, and you seem a lot more composed these days.

How is the productivity going on your job? Have you been riding your bike lately?

Feel free to answer when the metaphysical discussion runs its course!

trachemys

Got to add "enjoy a good apple and manchego" to that list. When chasing a dream, it helps to remember every little dreamlet.

alphaomega

You get what you give Cow.

Or at the very least, what you are "willing" to give.

What are you giving Cow ?

walkbeformakrun

Amen Sister, Amen!

fini

fini, I think main question of that book (What is it mean to be fully human?) is flawed and maybe even irrelevant. Cuz we is what we is and we does what we does. And so it has been and so it shall be. So many peoples want to wish and believe that they is some greater "ideal" that human is somehow meant to be. But just cuz we can dream of such ideals, is not mean we ever gonna be that. Is endless ancient fable and fairy tale and religious text that we never able to rise to.


main point of the book and his life is that we CAN do better. that "we is what we is" and CAN work from there. could i? yeah. do i? sometimes.
you and i have both admitted here that we know we can do better a lot of the time.
i didn't "aim" the book link at you. i often just think of stuff i've read that relates to the conversation i'm in, and i put it out there. it's not because i'm aiming it at someone or using it to make a point.
don't know if you have read the book, but the very last thing that anyone could honestly say about Jean Vanier is that he is one of these: " So many peoples want to wish and believe that they is some greater "ideal" that human is somehow meant to be. But just cuz we can dream of such ideals, is not mean we ever gonna be that".
he doesn't dream about doing and ideals, he DOES.

gardendiva

One thing I loved about Jack Trimpey's Small Book was his insistence that we don't have to earn the ability to like and respect ourselves. Being born and existing is enough. Still need a reason? Because it feels better than the alternative. I like that. I'm not going to save the planet or end world hunger but I can like myself anyway, simply because it feels better than hating myself.

That said I abhor our "everyone gets a trophy" culture. If anything makes me want to drink it's attending one of my kids' award ceremonies and watching 200 mediocre 9-year-olds accept their certificates of participation. Jesus just stick a fork in my eyeball instead.

RobbyRobot

How is this helpful, Alpha?

You know, I'm on board with you on a lot of things on how you push yourself, work yourself, and so on. I absolutely think you have it going on for YOU.

I gotta ask though... why do you want from Cow what obviously and carefully isn't going to happen? I'm all for tough love when it has been setup as a mutual agreement and those involved are readily participating working towards realistic goals. I don't see you and Cow agreeing on much around what your asking from her.

What am I missing in your approach with Cow, Alpha?!


Nicely said, gardendiva.

Soberpotamus

I like that too, Gardendiva. Well said.

Cow

Haven't read book, fini. Right now, I not care about anybody, and barely care about self. If someday I feel able to do "better," I has to be honest and say I quite sure it gonna be in service to self and not humanity. I promise to be first one to announce if I ever become less crappy person. Until then, AO, you maybe has to let go of try to save my soul.

Gilmer, I not able to work in my field and stay sober. At least not now. Or probable any time soon. So is jeopardizing career, but is what has to be done if any chance sobriety gonna stick. I not at cabin so not riding bike. I not really composed, I actual having very very difficult time. But, you know, I have whole lifetime of faking composure.