fantail

So I tried my first AA meeting tonight. I'm at 75 days now and it's going pretty well, but this weekend I was really restless and although not wanting to drink, feeling frustrated with being sober. So I decided to try a new approach.

The meeting was OK! But, I'm not really sure what to do. I was raised Buddhist (more or less, not very devoutly) and it's not just that I don't believe in the Christian God specifically... the concept of anthropomorphic gods in general doesn't fit in my worldview. I mean, I know people say your HP could be the AA group, but I don't see that as really true... all the references to HP clearly mean an omniscient being that is paying attention to individuals and getting involved in their daily lives. I don't believe in that and after probably 20 years of discussing faith with everyone and anyone, I just am not going to change my view right now.

I also think that the program of AA doesn't work with my personality. E.g. the concept of "powerless"... for me it's been the exact opposite. When drinking, I felt powerless, so I went along because I couldn't fight my addiction. I was able to stop only when I accepted that I do have power over this, that it's my mind and I don't have to be addicted if I just assert my will to be sober.

Etc etc. Those are just some of the basics, but whenever I read AA stuff I just feel that it doesn't speak to me.

But! Some of the people at the meeting were really nice and interesting to talk to. And AA is huge... there are only a few LifeRing meetings per week, and the one I went to was all men who were quite a bit older than me. This group had some people my own age, and one guy told me there are specific young people's meetings that I can go to. And on the schedule there are meetings that are clearly geared towards people in my demographic (some with meditation, some that meet in art houses, some with silly names).

So.... is there such a thing as attending AA just for the meetings? I really don't think I want to work the steps. I'd be happy to do some kind of self-improvement program, but not the specific AA ones. Some of them sound fine but there are many of them that I just know don't fit with my philosophy of recovery.

I guess the question is, is it likely to offend people if I go but don't do the steps, or at least not all of them? I am totally respectful of the AA method for other people, I just know it doesn't fit with my thinking. And I wouldn't plan to talk against the method. I'd just kind of like to have a place to hang out with other alcoholics.

Mark75

Stay sober and happy, that's all that counts...

Most AA's I hear talk about powerlessness talk about it sort of like you do... "When drinking, I felt powerless, so I went along because I couldn't fight my addiction" ... um, yea, I believe that that is ENTIRELY consistent with AA's message.

You say that... "all the references to HP clearly mean an omniscient being that is paying attention to individuals..." I read the book, and that is not the message I read... Admittedly the Big Book was written by christians in a very christian environment, but even I, a christian, don't understand God like that either... I don't think the message is that God pays attention to individuals so much as the opposite... individuals paying attention to God .... is more in line with my conceptualization of my HIgher Power...

I think you should give it some more time and thought before you come to ANY conclusions about AA... and yes, you can go to meetings and never work a step and enjoy the fellowship... and, if that keeps you sober AND happy... then WELCOME!!!

AnotherPaul

I just want to point out that I'm a practicing Buddhist (Theravada) and I use the Dhamma as my higher power in AA (and it IS a higher power in a sense of having the ability to effect change in us on many levels, as I'm sure you're well aware). You just have to tweak the wording of some of the steps and the way you implement them, as in rather than asking a higher power to remove my shortcomings, I commit to using a higher power to remove the shortcomings myself.

There are quite a few Buddhist versions of the 12 steps that you might find helpful, like this one:

A Buddhist’s Non-Theist 12 Steps | Realistic Recovery

Anyway, yes, I suppose you could attend AA meetings and never take on a sponsor or work the steps. Who would know, right? And if that keeps you from going to the liquor store that night, more power to you.

doggonecarl

I commend you for being open-minded enough to give AA a try, despite your reservations about "God as we understood Him."

I look at it this way. The Big Book pretty much nailed who the alcoholic is and the malady called alcoholism. If AA got that part right, assume their solution has some credence.

Grymt

I'm a practicer of the meditation technique as taught by Guatama the Buddha the aim being the eradication of ignorance. (of self). Buddha himself did not discuss the existence or non existence of god. He did say in pali that the concept of no-god exists. His first words were that he had 'seen' 'the creator' meaning he had 'seen' the process whereby the existence of self is formed. He found this by perfecting the art of doing nothing. This meditation technique is freely taught in many meditation centres throughout the world to anyone who wishes to learn about it. The keywords for finding a centre near you are vipassana, goenka, dhamma. It's free and takes ten days. The techniques you learn are good for maintaining sobriety. It does not ask you to believe or not believe in your god.

bbthumper

Your Higher power of course can be anything or anyone you wish provided it makes sense to you. It can be a life force, nature, a God, AA as a whole, whatever you want. we just have to come to the realization that if we cant beat alcohol on our own, there better be something greater than us to help us with that. What one calls it seems to be of very little importance as long as the program is worked to the best of ones ability. Many of the principles of AA are rooted in Christianity, but they are pretty much found in any religion or belief system. Broken down to their simplest form they promote love, tolerance and service.
The idea of powerlessness is presented once in the Bog Book of AA. In the 1st step. What the purpose of the 12 steps is is to allow us to tap a new source of power which will allow us not only to be free of the desire to drink alcohol, but also allows us to live a rewarding, joyous life filled with purpose. We are rewarded with the power to help others and see their lives change. Its a beautiful deal.
There is such thing as attending AA just for the meetings, but that's all you'll get out of it. Meetings. The true, lasting rewards of the AA way of life are received when we apply the spiritual principals to our daily lives.
Best wishes to you!

freshstart57

That is not my understanding of AA at all, Fantail. Entirely inconsistent. A 180. Diametrically opposed. And praying only for knowledge of His will for you and the power to carry that out, asking Him to remove your shortcomings and being ready at any level to have Him remove your character defects seems to indicate some necessity of God's attention to you.

But that is OK, understand. I agree with you wholeheartedly because I see things as you do. The 12 steps are not a requirement for sobriety.

What I needed to achieve and maintain sobriety were some new tools to deal with and accept life without recourse to numbing my brain and getting angry and depressed in the process. The first step was understanding that things really are better sober, and that I am not powerless over alcohol. You seem to have that one down solid.

Believe in yourself and your ability, and that you deserve a life without the mental and physical illnesses that are caused by alcohol addiction. Onward!

ElegantlyWasted

I look at the Powerlessness thing this way. While drinking I was powerless over some really negative outcomes that I would have had power over while sober. Personally, I'm about to go back to AA and do the 12 steps. My observation re: the people in AA is similar to yours, in that there are a lot of really great sober people there. All I can say is figure out what works for you. If you can figure out a constructive place within the AA community, awesome, if not that's more than OK.

honeypig

Fantail, I recently stumbled across a "Buddha and the 12 Steps" group, which is held at the local Unitarian Universalist Church. It is a small group but wonderful. They are a book study group, currently doing "One Breath at a Time."

The Alanon meetings I have been to have been good, helpful, welcoming, inspirational and all that; I really have no complaints, but for whatever reason, this particular alternative group just really feels like home to me.

I wonder if you might be able to check some of the various churches, or as I see someone else posted, simply google Buddhism and 12 steps and find something similar?

Wishing you well.

caboblanco

you should post more stuff about buddhism fantail. I think it's great for recovery

sugarbear1

When I chose to have "just one drink" I often never truly knew if I would stop at one or if I would stop at 30. I often chose to drink over accomplishing more than I had, even if it meant missing gatherings, not opening mail, not taking care of the next right thing to do, they would wait until I drank, then usually didn't get done. That was my powerlessness.

No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't seem to control or stop drinking.

I have a higher power today because once I worked those steps, something happened and I lost my obsession to drink, haven't had a craving or desire since then. I even tried to "will" it back at 3 months of sobriety and couldn't. Gone.

My higher power is more or less Love.... I can't define it more than that at this time.

I did not grow up with much religion and it definitely wasn't Christian. My higher power does not resemble a human form. AA works if I am willing to work those steps into my life.

Try these:

Rational Recovery
AVRT
SMART
SOS
Power to Quit
Life Ring
Women for Sobriety

They all have their own websites.

I wish you well on your sober journey!

Deckard

Fantail, this sounds like a paraphrase of some of the AVRT/Rational Recovery philosophy. Have you looked into that? If this is where you are coming from then you might find it interesting...

I think it is awesome that you are being so open-minded and thoughtful about what tools you need and where to get them. Good luck!

LadyinBC

People shouldn't be offended. I don't know why they would. I've been going to AA meetings for awhile now and I haven't really done any steps. I like going because there is always a meeting available and it's nice to be with people that understand what I am going thru.

Most people leave their judgement at the door. Whether we do the steps or not it is up to us, not anyone else.

AA isn't the only program I go to, I also go to SMART and Women for Sobriety because I find I get something out of every program. I don't agree with everything in each program, but I take what makes sense to me and leave the rest. I am doing what works for me and that is exactly what you should do.

As long as you are comfortable going to be with others, that is all that matters.

dox

The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

That's part of the preamble that is read out at the meetings I go to.

Knowing the only requirement helped me to attend, even though I sometimes thought that I was not sufficiently alcoholic to be there.

As far as the steps are concerned: At first I thought, "I'll never do steps 4 and 5."

It was important to me to get the one day at a time philosophy (One breath at a time would be great!). IMHO the philosophy could be: one meeting at a time. If we leave our preconceived notions at the door and listen, who knows what we will be doing in a year's time? Beyond our wildest dreams indeed!

I guess what I am trying to say is: Never say never.

Johno1967

The key here is to consider that the "Higher Power" is as you conceive it to be. It can be internal, external, dualistic or non-dualistic. It can be non-theistic or atheistic or agnostic. It can be anything you want it to be other than ones own ego or self will. My view is that there is no one recipe for everyone just need to keep an open mind. I believe that the 12 steps can be applied by someone who is religious or strictly spiritual or humanistic in their views. There are plenty of books by those that integrate their belief systems be it Buddhism, Advaita, Christianity etc. I'm currently reading 12 Step Buddhist (Darren Littlejohn) and Dharma Punx (Noah Levine) and have read One Breath at a Time by Kevin Griffin. There are countless ways to approach this, so I would not necessarily be put off by the Judeo-Christian slant of the AA literature. What is more important is the message that underlies the rhetoric and trying to live the simple principles, that is one of respect, humility, honesty and temperance.
People can get tied up and hesitant about the religious overtones, turned off by the rhetoric and reminded of the negative influence of religion in their youth. I for one suffered as a child in the catholic care system in Australia and was physically and mentally abused by Nuns who were meant to nurture us. I hated the church for years as a result. My distaste for the negative aspects of religion on society (war, sexual abuse, sectarianism, persecution, theft and abuse of power) is offset by many of the positive things truly spiritual people have done like campaigning for civil rights, crusading for peace and advocacy for the poor and persecuted, often at the peril of their own lives. I don't consider myself religious but I do consider that I'm on a spiritual path inspired by the 12 steps and elements of other philosophies which I can relate to. It works for me because I'm sober today.

tomsteve

good on ya for investigating! there may be a misconception on the powerless thing.
heres the 1st step:
admmitted we were powerless over alcohol.....
this is what helps...
"but there is one who has all power...."


keep gin back.. the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

fantail

Wow, thank you everyone! Really good responses. I really appreciate it. I've come to rely on this forum so much and I really trust the information that I get here. It's like having hundreds of cousins to go to for advice.

I should clarify that I'm not much of a Buddhist... I was raised in a Zen-based tradition but as a child of course my understanding of it was pretty basic. I'd say I'm Buddhist the way that friend of yours who was raised Catholic but can't remember what Ash Wednesday is all about is Catholic. My worldview is based in Buddhism but I'm not practicing. That might change; like many people this experience is causing me to do a lot of spiritual investigation.

AnotherPaul: Thank you for this: "You just have to tweak the wording of some of the steps and the way you implement them, as in rather than asking a higher power to remove my shortcomings, I commit to using a higher power to remove the shortcomings myself." That's been kind of what I've been thinking... that maybe the steps could be good for me if I found a way to reinterpret them.

HoneyPig, thank you, I will go read about that right now! Seeing it presented through a spiritual lens that's more familiar might help me get a better sense of whether the steps appeal to me or not. I definitely find it hard to assess the steps well because while I'm reading them I just get caught up in the religious stuff.

Deckard, I've read a little of the AVRT stuff and really connect to it! I didn't realize I was paraphrasing there but I probably read that along the way and absorbed it. If AVRT had meetings I would definitely go to those.

Freshstart, Yeah, that's my concern. I feel like my instincts run contrary to some of the basic philosophies (as I understand them). But the non-AA meetups are surprisingly slim pickings. And I really would love to have some in person support.

BBThumper, I guess the wording of the steps just strongly suggests to me that this higher power needs to be some kind of an entity. I struggle with the idea that anyone but me is going to be involved in my sobriety. I kind of think I can do it on my own, that it's my responsibility and I have to. Like I can be a better person and a better vessel, but it's my job to keep that door open by living better than I have. It's hard to tell if that's at odds with the AA message or if I'm just getting caught up in the semantics.

Sugarbear, TomSteve, Johno, Dox, Caboblanco, Elegantly Wasted, Grymt, DoggoneCarl, Mark, Lady in BC -- Thank you all so much for your posts, too. This thread has given me a lot more to think about.

fantail

Also, I went back again tonight. Really good people. I'm going to keep giving it a try. One woman gave me her phone number so when I work up the courage I might ask her some of these questions, too.

venuscat

fantail, our SR friends have given you some awesome thinking material...

Just remember what we hear when we come in the doors of AA:

"Take What You Want and Leave the Rest".

Love V xx

fantail

As always! Man in my first attempts talking about alcoholism with people in person, I sound like someone annoying in a new relationship.

"Well my online group says...."

"I thought about that, but then I asked my online group and..."