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Naltrexone & Campral - Abstinence vs Controlled?

Old 08-05-2012, 02:46 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Zany...
you are still drinking. ... how can you recommend anything?
Our Alcoholism Forum is about how to find a way
to stop drinking and stay stopped.

We are not here to condone controlled drinking.
We do not link to sites that use that concept

however... SlimSlim did provide a link from a discussion
that went on 5 years ago.
Many of those posters are no longer here to share with.

I do hope they all found their way into sobriety ...

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Old 08-06-2012, 07:01 AM
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Well i had tried that last night after being sober for a week... in comparison to my last drink which was where i bought 8 cans, drank 2 and realised "this isnt going to be enough", compulsively went and bought a 3 litre bottle of cider, and 2 pint bottles of beer, drank that, couldnt sleep for craving more, got up the next day and bought more cider and ended up drinking for 3 days - i had 6 beers last night, had a good nights sleep, didnt get much satisfaction out of it and am up today without a craving whatever

The sinclair method is not about controlled drinking, it is about blocking the pleasure centre in the brain that alcohol binds to, so that when an alcoholic drinks there is no rush of endorphins, eventually leading to a new learned behaviour which is - it isnt worth drinking

I know for myself that no matter how bad my benders got after a while i always felt the need to try it again whatever way my brain works, so if this method can change the way i think and cause me to re-learn the old patterns into not even thinking about alcohol then im willing to try it. its about quitting not controlling

Like i said: AA or the high way so sorry for posting anything that has a different view point whatsoever il know for the future to stick to only what people want to hear
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:01 AM
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and before you say "a week", prior to that bad one, i had 6 weeks of non drinking aswell... i was never someone who drank all day every single day 365 days a year
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:09 AM
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Hope you're not talking about me when you say "AA or the highway". I don't feel like I'm an AA pusher in the least. In fact, I came to it kicking and screaming. I am just saying that for today, it's working for me. Also, I was an every day, all day long drinker. Probably makes a difference. I truly hope the SM works for you (said with NO sarcasm). I would have done anything to make this problem go away. Now I just have accepted that it's with me for life.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:32 AM
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It sounds like you are trying to create a non-alcoholic out of an alcoholic.

Alcoholism has little to do with how much or how often I drink (drank).

For me, it's drinking or abstinence and I choose abstinence. There's no point in drinking just a couple. Just no point. I was my own scientific experiment for many, many years. I'm done with that.

I go to one or two AA meetings a week. I've worked the steps and keep working them into my life. That was all I needed. Life is beautiful today.

I think there's something amiss with someone who "needs" a daily meeting. Meetings don't keep me sober. That's where I either find a sponsor or find a sponsee.

My higher power helps me out daily and can be found anywhere I am, not just in a meeting. Just my opinion.

Of course, I'm still posting daily at SR, so I apparently need some connection with others in recovery, huh? At least until work starts again, I'll stick around here!

Choose what you will, zany, it's your life.

You don't seem ready to stay stopped yet, and that's okay.

I wish you well.

Love & hugs,
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:48 AM
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People just are not understanding TSM what so ever

It is not about creating a non-alcoholic out of an alcoholic. It is another method of quitting that goes against the traditional 12-step, detox and absintence models and people just cant keep an open mind enough to accept that it could work.

It is the most scientifically proven method to date, it was started in the 1980s and a hell of alot more research put into it than one doctors "opinion" from 1934.

I am also a member of AA, but i am the type of alcoholic that no matter how bad a spree gets, i always get the desire to go back no matter what.

How TSM works is by blocking the endorphin rush in the brain that an alcoholic experiences, by binding to the receptors that ethanol alcohol does, thereby blocking the alcohol from binding. The result of this is that when the person "slips", as long as they have taken naltrexone they gain no pleasure from drinking alcohol. The effect of alcohol is present, but not the euphoric rush and addictive endorphin rush that an alcoholic experiences.

The result of this is that after a number of slips (which are a learned behaviour of buying or drinking alcohol in certain situations or under certain moods), the act of drinking the alcohol no longer gives the effect desired... so all that is left is the cognitive behaviour of buying and drinking the stuff... Eventually, the person LEARNS (or re-learns) that there is absolutely no point in drinking alcohol, because there is nothing in it any more - thereby leading them to complete abstinence without the craving for the euphoria or endorphins. Eliminating the mental obsession they talk about in AA.

The reason being that as long as the person stays on the medication, they can slip hundreds of times and get absolutely no great effect or loss of control, so eventually the wiring of the brain under the trigger situations will say "theres no point in drinking alcohol" rather than trying to fight it or have to phone someone to talk about it...

The obsession becomes removed, the person becomes abstinent, all without having to fight that urge to take the drink - they can take the drink if they want, but they get nothing from it... it just ends up being a waste of money...

I am in close contact with AA, harm reduction and community addictions, all are different methods of recovery - so is the sinclair method using naltrexone... its just because its the complete opposite of the standard methods of recovery that people cant wrap their minds around it at all
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:37 AM
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I hope this really works for you, it sounds like it just might!

Have you worked all 12 steps?
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:21 AM
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RE: Naltrexone and Campral

I have personally used this combination before. No alcoholic can have "controlled drinking". Whether you drank everyday or had binge drinking, that is still an alcoholic. Your disease is still working out in the background, getting stronger than you everyday! If you try to use these drugs to control it, the disease will win, because it will eventually tell you to stop taking the medication.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:36 PM
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I know what I would have done, stopped taking it so I could get the euphoria back. There is no pill that can make me forget that feeling.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:37 PM
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I didn't have the time to read through the entire thread, but my last time getting sober I was prescribed Naltrexone for about three months. I familiarized myself with what the Sinclair method was all about, but at least on the forum dedicated to it I read far more stories of misery than I did success. Personally, I think claims that it can "cure" alcoholism are horseshit.

Having said that, I freely admit that I never tried to apply the Sinclair method myself. I used Naltrexone as a safety net, with the idea that if I did slip I wouldn't get the same rush of euphoria and urge to keep drinking into a binge. I drank once on it on the first or second day, and that was it. By the time I quit, I was more than ready to be done.

If you decide to try the Sinclair method, I wish you success despite my skepticism. Even so, my strong personal recommendation is to use it as a tool to get sober, and not as an aid towards drinking in moderation. Honestly, the idea of taking a narcotic just so a person can have a couple of drinks without slipping into a binge sounds perfectly awful, and a hell of a clear sign of alcoholic drinking. All the best, whichever way you go.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:48 PM
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I know, right, Groucho. Nice post.

I have to admit that I was getting all excited to read this thread because I thought that maybe there was a pill out there that would enable me to drink again.

Yep, that is how my brain works *fiend*

But hey, whatever works for some people is great
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:50 PM
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Sorry that should be:

"But hey, whatever works for some people is great." Sorry that should be a
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:15 PM
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LoriG.....thanks for joining us
Welcome to our recovery community
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:28 PM
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Zany...
You did title this thread

Naltrexone & Campral - Abstinence vs Controlled?
ergo some members might think you were interested in control..

No one here is trying to argue and of course you are welcome
to your opinion on AA.....even the BB says AA is not for everyone.


Other members are also welcome to share on the benfits of our expereinces..

Please relax... and enjoy your life.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:29 PM
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Zany,

"I am also a member of AA, but i am the type of alcoholic that no matter how bad a spree gets, i always get the desire to go back no matter what."


I thought we were all that type of alkie?

I was just thinking that unfortunately my alcoholism has rendered me too broke ass to afford these fancy medications. I am going to have to stick with the free stuff, e.g., the free clinic, AA Unless they are paying for test subjects *smartass

But really, I am all for anything that works to keep a person sober, Zany.

Take care
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:48 PM
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How much do those meds cost?
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:58 AM
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I didn't use drugs to get and stay sober, and I didn't have the desire to keep drinking. Honestly this sounds mind numbingly complex, and probably would have extended my obsessive thoughts about drinking.. when I put it down for good, it was such a huge relief to not even consider drinking anymore. I think there's a lot of 'ways' to achieve sobriety and recovery, I didn't use a 12 step program, I didn't take meds.. but that's just my story. I hope that it works for you, and that you continue posting about your experience.. if nothing else we can sure learn a lot about recovery methods from each other. To me there was no other 'method' than never drinking again, and though I considered myself a 'real' (hate that term.. but whatever) alcoholic, my desire for recovery/abstinence became stronger than my desire to drink.. and that for me was a life changing moment.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:38 AM
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After drinking on naltrexone the other night i realised that if used during a slip, it would eventually lead me to abstinence which is what i want anyway - im sick of the drinking and hangovers - the problem is filling that void in life that buying some alcohol and drinking used to fill but now during those times with this med it will not be worth it anyway - so i am going to use it as a tool to get sober and not a tool to control my drinking. before i tried it i also hoped that it was a magic pill that would enable me to drink normally again but then i got real, especially after trying it and realised it is rediculous to have to take a pill every time you want to drink just to be able to control it, especially since it takes the "uumph" out of the drink, so i think even people who wanted to use it to control their drinking if they used it properly would eventually end up abstinent in the end because its just not worth it

as for how much the meds cost - i live in the UK so i get all my medications free on the NHS im not sure about america etc
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by flutter View Post
I didn't use drugs to get and stay sober, and I didn't have the desire to keep drinking. Honestly this sounds mind numbingly complex, and probably would have extended my obsessive thoughts about drinking.. when I put it down for good, it was such a huge relief to not even consider drinking anymore. I think there's a lot of 'ways' to achieve sobriety and recovery, I didn't use a 12 step program, I didn't take meds.. but that's just my story. I hope that it works for you, and that you continue posting about your experience.. if nothing else we can sure learn a lot about recovery methods from each other. To me there was no other 'method' than never drinking again, and though I considered myself a 'real' (hate that term.. but whatever) alcoholic, my desire for recovery/abstinence became stronger than my desire to drink.. and that for me was a life changing moment.
i wish i was like you i really honestly do - but i have battled this addiction for 9 years, it has landed me in so much trouble yet no matter how bad it got, or how bad DTs got after 9 days of drinking vodka and no food or water 24/7, for weeks i would claim never again but then the desire ALWAYS comes back, tricks my mind, and i try it again not even remembering the circumstances... thats why im really hoping this method will help me because when i put the glass down "for keeps" its only a matter of time, and usually only days or weeks that the desire to pick it up again over rides any bad experience ive ever had. thats why im hoping naltrexone will work since if i do pick up the glass, i get nothing from it anyway - and it would help to kill the obsession..

im not willing to stop taking the tablet to get the euphoria back because as strange as this may sound, as an alcoholic i detest being "Drunk", i always liked a few drinks but not drunkenness, so if i drink on this considering there is no euphoria (the bit that got me into trouble) im hoping i wouldnt desire to go on and on until i was in a mess again.

I still havent had a drink since the original post, although i do desire one today. I will try my best not to take one, but i know if i do i will most definitely take the naltrexone first. It isnt going to be a miracle cure either though because it will be about learning to buy only 6 cans, and eventually 5, then 4, then see what happens (possibly the desire leaves completely after my experience on nal) but DEFINITELY take the naltrexone before hand. This is also being used in conjunction with addiction support as well.

Im in my action stage so not delusional enough to think "uck sure il pop a naltrexone and go and buy a litre of rum" because i dont want to be that way any more, i just seem to get it really hard to put it down for keeps, in fact never have been able to . so this way if i slip its about making sure to only buy a small amount and take the pill, and realise after drinking "wow that wasnt worth it"... time and time again of not getting anything out of alcohol reward ways, it becomes pointless..
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:46 AM
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By the way im also using acamprosate on a daily basis (alongside addiction support as mentioned) to keep me abstinent on most days i can, the naltrexone is kind of a "Safety net" if i do slip as someone else mentioned
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