Getting Sober & Staying That Way Without AA
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I looked into AA after I decided to stop drinking, and found that there were some things there that did not appeal to me, some things I thought were contradictions, and others that I thought were wrong. It has worked for thousands of people and more power to em, but it is not necessary for sobriety, nor is it sufficient in my view.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by freshstart57 
I looked into AA after I decided to stop drinking, and found that there were some things there that did not appeal to me, some things I thought were contradictions, and others that I thought were wrong. It has worked for thousands of people and more power to em, but it is not necessary for sobriety, nor is it sufficient in my view.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
Originally Posted by freshstart57
I looked into AA after I decided to stop drinking, and found that there were some things there that did not appeal to me, some things I thought were contradictions, and others that I thought were wrong. It has worked for thousands of people and more power to em, but it is not necessary for sobriety, nor is it sufficient in my view.
I too am self recovered. I went to one AA meeting on my 5th day of sobriety...I figured that's what you do, right?
I have to say that I owe my recovery to SR. It was here that I discovered that there are all sorts of paths to recovery. My method has been a melting pot and continues to evolve as I read and learn more.
It is glorious to know that I am 100% in charge and that I will guide my recovery on my own terms - however many steps that may take!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
TheJungianThing--If AA is working for you, why would you want to try a different method of recovery?
I think most of us who use other methods tried the 12-step path. I wish it would have because it would have been so much easier to have those groups and that framework and all that literature.
You find your own recovery because you have to. If what you have works for you---then why do you care about other paths of recovery?
I think most of us who use other methods tried the 12-step path. I wish it would have because it would have been so much easier to have those groups and that framework and all that literature.
You find your own recovery because you have to. If what you have works for you---then why do you care about other paths of recovery?
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 449
Originally Posted by miamifella
TheJungianThing--If AA is working for you, why would you want to try a different method of recovery?
I think most of us who use other methods tried the 12-step path. I wish it would have because it would have been so much easier to have those groups and that framework and all that literature.
You find your own recovery because you have to. If what you have works for you---then why do you care about other paths of recovery?
I think most of us who use other methods tried the 12-step path. I wish it would have because it would have been so much easier to have those groups and that framework and all that literature.
You find your own recovery because you have to. If what you have works for you---then why do you care about other paths of recovery?
I presumed the OP had been in the AA fellowship and perhaps followed the AA program - was sober (in the purest sense of the word) but took issue with a specific AA group.
So, sober (in the purest sense of the word), was asking about other programs. So my question was - if AA was the path that got me sober - how could I truly speak to someone else about the effectiveness of another path ?
Would I have to drink first ? Simple question, based in intellectual curiosity, that's it. Probably best left as a rhetorical one I guess but if anyone wants to answer it it's cool too.
Why do I care ? I care because I work with alcoholics. They initially come to AA because I go to meetings. Sent to AA by doctors or some sort of court mandated alcohol thingamajig I get asked "Are there other ways to get sober".
To which, my answer is, "I've heard of other ways but I have no experience with them". The AA Tenth Step suggests my next function is to increase my effectiveness and understanding. Since the book I'm reading deals with alcoholism and since "helping others achieve sobriety" is suggested, I think I would be more effective if I could answer these folks with more precise answer. "Yes, there is AVRT, there is a book by Allan Carr, etc, those are methods I"ve read about but have absolutely no experience in".
At that point the person can then make an informed decision if they want to pursue the AA PRogram of Action - which I can help them with. Or - pursue one of the other methods out there, which I cannot help them with.
Contrary to what seems to have been put forth from time to time, there are no points for "recruiting" newcomers. At least in my area and under my sponsorshop lineage. We're there to help - if someone wants help with AA - if someone comes to AA looking for a different program, it's not that we don't want to help - often older fellows don't know. I do, because I read. Now I know more. I can always point to the other programs. I just can't help them with it. Not because I don't want to, but because I haven't done them. Yet.
I'm not parochial about these matters. They're life death for most, my sincerest desire is that the person wanting to stop drinking - stops drinking and enjoys sober living.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Good for you, TheJungianThing. I have to say, you get it! You like AA, you're able to state (quite colorfully) why you find it helpful, but you don't seem at all motivated to suggest that someone who doesn't find AA helpful is missing something or doomed to death or "dry drunk" status.
My former sponsor is a lot like you. She's introduced several of her sponsees to me and I've introduced them to SMART Recovery. She loves AA and has no clue about SMART, but she's got an open mind.
My former sponsor is a lot like you. She's introduced several of her sponsees to me and I've introduced them to SMART Recovery. She loves AA and has no clue about SMART, but she's got an open mind.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 600
I can only talk of my experience and I can't do without AA, i've tried.
When I first came into AA I was turned off by the 'god thing', I felt it was a cult, didn't like some of the negativity, wanted to do it on my own, read all the criticism of Bill W and just felt this wasn't for me. At the same time though i met a good proportion of members who i felt had something that I wanted, whether that was a piece of mind, serenity, calmness, positiveness I don't know.
Because i was looking at the differences and concentrated on all the negative aspects of AA i left to try to do it on my own on a few occasions and still kept posting here, albeit of my concerns of AA. I never drank on those occasions and when things were going great i'd ask myself why do I need AA? The times I knew i needed AA was when things were going bad, I'd face a situation and didn't have that mental defence as to how to deal with it, I needed to be around people who like myself were recovering alcoholics without drinking.
At the end of the day if AA is a cult, so what? ... I don't believe it is, but if it is, it keeps me sober. If Bill W was all those things the internet says he was, then good, as the 12 step program and that Big Book could never have been written by a Saint. If there is no Abrahamic personal type God, then i'll choose a god of my understanding. If there are negative types in AA who can bring people down, i'll look for the positive types. AA works for this alcoholic because I work it, no other reason...it keeps me sober and I couldn't do it without it.
If you want to try other ways or other routes go for it, I'm certainly not of the type to tell you that there aren't other alternatives. Part of the preamble states that AA ... 'does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes.'.
So work whatever works for you, all that i'd add is don't close the door on AA and rule it out if things were to get bad in the future, or you were thinking about that first drink. If you feel that the programs or routes you're working suddenly stop working for you, AA isn't going anywhere and the door will always be open.
Paul
When I first came into AA I was turned off by the 'god thing', I felt it was a cult, didn't like some of the negativity, wanted to do it on my own, read all the criticism of Bill W and just felt this wasn't for me. At the same time though i met a good proportion of members who i felt had something that I wanted, whether that was a piece of mind, serenity, calmness, positiveness I don't know.
Because i was looking at the differences and concentrated on all the negative aspects of AA i left to try to do it on my own on a few occasions and still kept posting here, albeit of my concerns of AA. I never drank on those occasions and when things were going great i'd ask myself why do I need AA? The times I knew i needed AA was when things were going bad, I'd face a situation and didn't have that mental defence as to how to deal with it, I needed to be around people who like myself were recovering alcoholics without drinking.
At the end of the day if AA is a cult, so what? ... I don't believe it is, but if it is, it keeps me sober. If Bill W was all those things the internet says he was, then good, as the 12 step program and that Big Book could never have been written by a Saint. If there is no Abrahamic personal type God, then i'll choose a god of my understanding. If there are negative types in AA who can bring people down, i'll look for the positive types. AA works for this alcoholic because I work it, no other reason...it keeps me sober and I couldn't do it without it.
If you want to try other ways or other routes go for it, I'm certainly not of the type to tell you that there aren't other alternatives. Part of the preamble states that AA ... 'does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes.'.
So work whatever works for you, all that i'd add is don't close the door on AA and rule it out if things were to get bad in the future, or you were thinking about that first drink. If you feel that the programs or routes you're working suddenly stop working for you, AA isn't going anywhere and the door will always be open.
Paul
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Mound, MN
Posts: 154
JeanaJo,
I don't use AA either. Somedays I feel better to have stopped AA than to have stopped drinking. Go figure. Anyway, I'd recommend alternatives to AA. It just seems too unhealthy. SMART would be a great place to start looking. Best of luck to you.
I don't use AA either. Somedays I feel better to have stopped AA than to have stopped drinking. Go figure. Anyway, I'd recommend alternatives to AA. It just seems too unhealthy. SMART would be a great place to start looking. Best of luck to you.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
Having worked the steps (fanatically) in AA for the first six months of my recovery, then using the next year and a half to develop my own recovery plan, and now recently having gone back into the program (not so much for a spiritual message, but for social support during a rough time in my life) my opinion is that although I disagree with some of the tenets of AA, my recovery is strong and my life satisfaction is good enough as long as I:
1) Have some kind of social support system where I can talk about alcoholism face-to-face on a regular basis (with a counselor, other alcoholics, sponsor, etc.)
2) Set and pursue long-term goals.
3) Recognize when my thought patterns, actions, and life circumstances are dangerous and potentially putting me on a path to relapse. If I can't look inward and put a stop to those thoughts, I'm in big trouble. This is where AA comes in nicely - not so much for the spiritual aspect, but for the understanding of a sponsor who knows how we think and can look into my life and offer advice from an outside perspective. Keeping my biases in check is a large part of what helps me stay in shape.
Long story short: AA can be beneficial even if you don't "go to any length" to get the message. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I'm 2.5 years in and doing just fine.
1) Have some kind of social support system where I can talk about alcoholism face-to-face on a regular basis (with a counselor, other alcoholics, sponsor, etc.)
2) Set and pursue long-term goals.
3) Recognize when my thought patterns, actions, and life circumstances are dangerous and potentially putting me on a path to relapse. If I can't look inward and put a stop to those thoughts, I'm in big trouble. This is where AA comes in nicely - not so much for the spiritual aspect, but for the understanding of a sponsor who knows how we think and can look into my life and offer advice from an outside perspective. Keeping my biases in check is a large part of what helps me stay in shape.
Long story short: AA can be beneficial even if you don't "go to any length" to get the message. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I'm 2.5 years in and doing just fine.
Hooligan
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Snowy North-Eastern U.S.
Posts: 321
I do not use meetings of any kind, and i have been decently success full or so i feel. Originally I slipped up a few times, but once i really committed to not drinking it has been smooth sailing. I am around a year and a half without drinking, but the beauty the situation now is that there is no more craving. I have simply come to terms that it is not an option for me so why worry about it or want it at all. I hope you achieve success in what ever path you decide to take too.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,180
Hello,
I'm new to this also and not using AA. I have been before and I felt uncomfortable. There are also practical reasons now why I am unable to attend. I know it works for many many people but it is good for me to see that many people have become and stay sober without AA so it is not the only way.
I'm new to this also and not using AA. I have been before and I felt uncomfortable. There are also practical reasons now why I am unable to attend. I know it works for many many people but it is good for me to see that many people have become and stay sober without AA so it is not the only way.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Given the nature of the contemporary addiction recovery world, I do understand why people feel inclined to ask this question, but AA was founded in 1935. People have been drinking alcohol for at least 10,000 years. Does anyone seriously believe that nobody became alcoholic and subsequently quit drinking prior to 1935? That nobody read, for example, "The Common Sense of Drinking" before the Big Book was published?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
AA is only one path to finding serenity, purpose in meaning in one's own life.
That can be a tall order, ya know? Serenity, purpose, meaning... Some just seem to naturally have it, or at least know how to get it... some of those people are alcoholic and they just need to quit drinking... others are not alcoholic, like many of my good friends and close family... they have their days, but they don't have that dark hole.
As TU said, people have been drinking and quitting the drink for 10,000 years.... well... people have been trying to find serenity... spirituality... enlightenment for at least that long... even the Pagens, no?
AA is just one of those paths... it was a gift from Bill W. and Dr. Bob... Here is a way for ALCOHOLICS to find peace... But then, Matt Talbot predates AA, no? An alcoholic who became a devout catholic and is considered by many to be a patron for the addicted. He found his way towards enlightenment in the church. I am sure there are many more such examples.
Remember, only the first step even mentions alcohol... the rest are a spiritual journey... a roadmap, 12 simple steps toward that awakening.
Stop drinking... if you are fine, at peace with yourself and the rest of the world... AWESOME!!!!!!!! If not, if there is something missing, then go find it... there is church, self help, education, mountain climbing, triathlons.... and there is AA.
That can be a tall order, ya know? Serenity, purpose, meaning... Some just seem to naturally have it, or at least know how to get it... some of those people are alcoholic and they just need to quit drinking... others are not alcoholic, like many of my good friends and close family... they have their days, but they don't have that dark hole.
As TU said, people have been drinking and quitting the drink for 10,000 years.... well... people have been trying to find serenity... spirituality... enlightenment for at least that long... even the Pagens, no?
AA is just one of those paths... it was a gift from Bill W. and Dr. Bob... Here is a way for ALCOHOLICS to find peace... But then, Matt Talbot predates AA, no? An alcoholic who became a devout catholic and is considered by many to be a patron for the addicted. He found his way towards enlightenment in the church. I am sure there are many more such examples.
Remember, only the first step even mentions alcohol... the rest are a spiritual journey... a roadmap, 12 simple steps toward that awakening.
Stop drinking... if you are fine, at peace with yourself and the rest of the world... AWESOME!!!!!!!! If not, if there is something missing, then go find it... there is church, self help, education, mountain climbing, triathlons.... and there is AA.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
An amazing thread, this one, and most welcome. There is an abundance of the best kind of truth here, and that is a recounting of our personal victory over our addiction, and our ongoing affirmation of the best part of ourselves. This is being done in a respectful and mindful way, which is way cool too.
Many thanks to the posters who have shared their most personal journeys for the benefit of all. You're all invited to my place for dinner next weekend, it should be a great time. Snacks at 6, dinner at 7 OK?
Many thanks to the posters who have shared their most personal journeys for the benefit of all. You're all invited to my place for dinner next weekend, it should be a great time. Snacks at 6, dinner at 7 OK?
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 364
I'm not allowed to link to this so will quote verbatim from a secular recovery article:
I'm proud to be part of that self-recovered majority. To me* any treatment would just be a way of side-stepping the solution: don't drink.
*I'm not saying that's true for everyone.
Originally Posted by Jack Trimpey
In May, 2001 The Grapevine reported that over 60% of all successful recoveries occur independently, without the use of recovery groups, professional counseling, or addiction treatment programs. We think the actual percentage is 100%, a view supported by AA's 1989 Triennial Membership Survey, which disclosed that about 2% of newcomers are consistently abstinent after five years of program participation
*I'm not saying that's true for everyone.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
Before I got clean, I did a great deal of reading, writing. long walks in the woods, thinking etc about what my issues were, why I was having trouble addressing life, where i kept getting hung up, etc.
It became clear to me I needed to quit using, not even allow it to be an option, AND address those other life issues.
I had avoided 12 step like the plague, thinking I knew what they were all about, and that there was NO way that was for me, Free thinker that I am.
But then I took a look at the steps, did a little reading about them and pretty much saw that they are the same process suggested by nearly every noted spiritual leader or program, and most respectable self help books and programs. There is nothing new, special or magical. It's a program that takes human nature into account and lays out a plan for recovery.
At that point, my life and spirit being as beaten down as it was, I figured it was just easier to get myself into a program that provided free and readily available support.
I continued to use my other reading, ideas, and practices from various recovery programs and spiritualities, along with my journaling of my own particular issues, made while I was still in active addiction, to help me address my life.
I honestly don't believe that there is a dichotomy as in AA or anything else. As if AA is so vastly different, unique or somehow opposed to everything or idea that is not in their particular literature.
That is a false dichotomy that ends up putting a lot of people into a "chasing their own tail" energy wasting cycle. People get into a "pro AA/antiAA" struggle, rather than relaxing into sobriety.
I feel it's not only pointless, it's unecessary.
I find the God language and certain common rituals in AA meetings hard for me to get past. SO I use the 12 steps as presented by other 12 step groups where those things are not highlighted. There are so many options out there.
The "secret" is this...it is not a particular program that keeps us clean, it is our choices on a daily basis, our willingness to do something other than use. For me, a program is a map but at any point I can still go whichever way I choose. I get to decide on my chosen destination, and the road I use to get there.
It became clear to me I needed to quit using, not even allow it to be an option, AND address those other life issues.
I had avoided 12 step like the plague, thinking I knew what they were all about, and that there was NO way that was for me, Free thinker that I am.
But then I took a look at the steps, did a little reading about them and pretty much saw that they are the same process suggested by nearly every noted spiritual leader or program, and most respectable self help books and programs. There is nothing new, special or magical. It's a program that takes human nature into account and lays out a plan for recovery.
At that point, my life and spirit being as beaten down as it was, I figured it was just easier to get myself into a program that provided free and readily available support.
I continued to use my other reading, ideas, and practices from various recovery programs and spiritualities, along with my journaling of my own particular issues, made while I was still in active addiction, to help me address my life.
I honestly don't believe that there is a dichotomy as in AA or anything else. As if AA is so vastly different, unique or somehow opposed to everything or idea that is not in their particular literature.
That is a false dichotomy that ends up putting a lot of people into a "chasing their own tail" energy wasting cycle. People get into a "pro AA/antiAA" struggle, rather than relaxing into sobriety.
I feel it's not only pointless, it's unecessary.
I find the God language and certain common rituals in AA meetings hard for me to get past. SO I use the 12 steps as presented by other 12 step groups where those things are not highlighted. There are so many options out there.
The "secret" is this...it is not a particular program that keeps us clean, it is our choices on a daily basis, our willingness to do something other than use. For me, a program is a map but at any point I can still go whichever way I choose. I get to decide on my chosen destination, and the road I use to get there.
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