Questions to help an alcoholic

[roncampb]

I was hoping to gain some valuable insight coming here regarding helping my brother in law with his problems.

His situation seems complicated, and I'm struggling to help. I think that the problem has been going on for over a year. And, that is about when I started to try to help him move in the right direction. As of now, it looks like I have failed.

I'm not sure, because he lies to everybody about everything. But I think that he drinks at least a fifth of alcohol a day. He says that he wants to go to rehab, but he wants to go all the way to Cali to do it which would cost the family about 25k. He lives in Indiana now. He is against doing it in Indiana, he wants to get away. To me, it seems that he just wants a vacation and isn't really committed to rehab.

There are other problems too. He seems to have major social anxiety which may be partly why he self medicates himself. And he has not come close to maturing or growing up. He is basically a baby in a 24 year olds body. He is a classic example of Allan from the movie hangover. That is his maturity level anyways.

There are just so many issues that I don't even know where to start.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Supercrew]

You can't help someone who doesn't really want help, and I don't know many "mature" 24 year olds. 24 is what 18 was 20 years ago when it comes to responsibilty.

[TwelveSteps]

You sound like someone who could benefit trying an Al-Anon meeting. It's for families of alcoholics. Google it to find meeting times in your area. Good luck.

GG

[eJoshua]

Hi, I have no experience with Al-Anon, so I may be way off base here (someone correct me if this is the case).

I think if you want to, you can express your concern for him to him, as long as you do it from a position of love and not a position of "come on man, get your stuff together". I'm not saying those feelings aren't valid, but if your goal is to get him to go to rehab I don't think that's the best time and place to express your feelings in that way.

Secondly, you can't control his behavior or make him quit. Part of you has to accept the fact that if he doesn't want to do it then you can't make him do it.

It sounds like the family is aware of the problem and the issue is out in the open since rehab is being discussed. Maybe an intervention is in order? Not sure about this, but I do know that you could consider consulting with a professional interventionist to get their opinion.

Sorry you're dealing with this. Check out the family and friends section on SR for more educated advice.

[roncampb]

Originally Posted by eJoshua

Hi, I have no experience with Al-Anon, so I may be way off base here (someone correct me if this is the case).

I think if you want to, you can express your concern for him to him, as long as you do it from a position of love and not a position of "come on man, get your stuff together". I'm not saying those feelings aren't valid, but if your goal is to get him to go to rehab I don't think that's the best time and place to express your feelings in that way.

Secondly, you can't control his behavior or make him quit. Part of you has to accept the fact that if he doesn't want to do it then you can't make him do it.

It sounds like the family is aware of the problem and the issue is out in the open since rehab is being discussed. Maybe an intervention is in order? Not sure about this, but I do know that you could consider consulting with a professional interventionist to get their opinion.

Sorry you're dealing with this. Check out the family and friends section on SR for more educated advice.

I've talked to him and said, we support and love you. He said that he needs to change, but I don't know if I believe him or not.

It is now way out in the open. Maybe an intervention is a good idea, but I'm really not familiar with this stuff. But, I will talk to his parents to see if they think an intervention is something that they are comfortable with.

[Beebizzy]

Good luck roncampb. It sounds like you really care about your brother-in-law. Sadly, as others have said, he cannot be helped unless he wants help (really and not based on what he says).

That said, he can be put on the right track - an intervention may be a good idea, even better to consult a professional about it.

It's also great that he continues to know that you guys still love him - just not his drinking - and are concerned for him.

Al-Anon sounds like a good idea for you (although I've no personal experience) and also the 'Family & friends' forum here.

I do have personal experience of how worrying and frustrating this type of situation is.

I wish you the best of luck - hope it all works out,
BB

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by roncampb

There are just so many issues that I don't even know where to start.

Any help would be appreciated.

Remember the 3 C's of Al-Anon;

You did not Cause it.
You can not Cure it.
You can not Control it.

The best you can do is Carry a message of recovery. Make your best effort but detach from the outcome or it will harm your serenity.

[CarolD]

Al anon is the best route for this mans family...:yup;

It was immensley useful for me when I was trying to deal with a simlar situation ..:

You could also check out our Friends and Family Forum The top sticky posts have good info

Friends and Family of Alcoholics - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

To de tox from alcohol....it's always best to have an honest talk with a doctor. This can be done only by the alcoholic.

The Salvation Army has free treatment/de tox centers in many areas.
Again...the alcoholic must be the one who walks in the doors.

[Terminally Unique]

Bear in mind that the traditional "intervention" with the rehab van idling outside can have the opposite reaction, and might prevent any further dialogue if he balks. Furthermore, even if he goes to rehab, if it doesn't stick after the intervention, which is a real possibility, he may blame those who sent him there for failing.

You should also know that most rehabs are little more than a very expensive introduction to AA, which you can get for free. If he has social anxiety, why not try suggesting that he hop on these boards? That shouldn't cause him too much anxiety, and I'm sure people will give him some good suggestions if he does.

[choublak]

Originally Posted by AVRT

Bear in mind that the traditional "intervention" with the rehab van idling outside can have the opposite reaction,

Yeah it can, like on the tv show sometimes the addict will run away, with the camera crew chasing him/her.

[LaFemme]

I dont know if it would have stopped me from drinking but I would have killed to know my family cared and was willing to try and help me.

I'm so glad for your BIL that he has a loving family and I hope he gets well. I don't necessarily buy that he doesn't want help. He sounds like he wants to quit, but he's got it in his head that he needs to change his surroundings to get well. This is a fairly common misperception (I had it too). The change has to come from within and requires work. Maybe try and get him into see a therapist specializing in addiction
Good luck!

[roncampb]

Hey guys,

I'm back. Over the past 6 months or so that I've been working on him, I think that things have begun to improve gradually. He would actually tell me that he hadn't had a drink in so many days.. When he would drink, I could tell that he would get tipsy faster. I knew, because I would count his drinks. Also, he stopped hanging out with a few people that were a real bad influence which I suggested. I had a few of my good friends come down and talk to him as well. In my opinion, he was still drinking too much. But, not nearly to the fifth a day point. His consumption was probably cut by 2/3rd's.

Ok fast forward, I recently got a job offer a ways away from him. It is probably a good 5-6 hours away. Well, I went back to visit, and I saw his mom bringing home a case of beer for him.... I was not happy at all. And, he ended up hammered at around noon. His aunt and uncle approached me about it.. And, they asked if i've talked to him about his problem... And I was like "uh yea, I've been on him about this for a while now." At this point, I feel that his family just isn't willing to make the commitment to fix this problem. Nobody wants to confront him about it. And, I do think that my help did point him in the right direction. But, there is still a long road ahead of us. It is really irritating to me that his family is not stepping up to the plate here.

He is coming to visit this weekend, and I will talk to him like I always do and show encouragement. But, I think that his family is really failing him here. Not sure what route to go from here?

[BadCompany]

Originally Posted by roncampb

Over the past 6 months or so that I've been working on him,

[aihflvt]

"Major social anxiety" is what jumped out at me from this post. If this really is the case, this person will likely not stop drinking until that problem is addressed. The family practice clinic I go to has a psychologist on staff who can be present at appointments patients make with their family doctor. That is what I did - it was a lot less intimidating than trying to establish a relationship with a completely new doctor. Perhaps your family doctor has a therapist/counselor/psychologist colleague who would be willing to do that for you?

I had a question about the family - the mom bringing over the beer. Is she REALLY aware of the extent of the problem? For example, my dad knows I used to drink heavily, but every time I go see my dad or he comes to see me, he tries to foist off a cheap box of wine on me. I just good naturedly laugh and tell him I can't drink such swill and that's the end of it until the next time I see him. Also, being able to consume a fifth of 80 proof liquor over the course of an afternoon and evening was the time I decided I was done. Given my own experience, I can't imagine how anyone can drink that much and be remotely productive.

[sayonara]

Originally Posted by roncampb

He says that he wants to go to rehab, but he wants to go all the way to Cali to do it which would cost the family about 25k. He lives in Indiana now. He is against doing it in Indiana, he wants to get away. To me, it seems that he just wants a vacation and isn't really committed to rehab.

Any help would be appreciated.

When I was in the middle of a heavy drinking phase, I packed up my bags, loaded my vehicle and drove across the country to "Start Afresh, A new beginning,,, or so I thought" When I arrived, feeling isolated and frustrated that things weren't going as well as I'd hoped, things turned south and I ended up in trouble. When I finally sought help at a hospital to detox myself, the attending doctor said something sort of profound to me. When I told her that things weren't working out as I had hoped, and that was the reason I'd come across the country, she said "the problem is, you brought yourself with you"

There is a saying in Latin that says, that by moving across the sea, you don't change yourself, you only change the sky.

I'm sure that there are lots of treatment options close by and I'd bet there is an AA meeting within a half hour of home.

I like to think of it this way.
1. A night in a bar might cost upwards of $20 or more, An AA meeting is free (or maybe a buck if you kick in for coffee).
2. A night in a bar can make you feel like crap the next morning, an AA meeting or some other therapy makes you feel GOOD the next day.
3. I've never been pulled over by the police for attending an AA meeting.
4. I don't recall ever having thrown up after an AA meeting. (Close, sometimes ... ha, ha)
5. I don't remember ever having fallen down after attending a meeting.
6. The feeling of having repaired some of the damage I've caused to friends and family after they recognized that I was committed to turning my life around is far better than watching them drift out of my life.

There as just a few thoughts from an admitted alcoholic.
Once recognizing that the benefits of some sort of treatment vastly outweigh the bad, it was a no-brainer to at least try to work through it.

I hope they help, and I wish you and your brother in law the best.

[Gottalife]

The book Alcoholics Anonymous has some suggestions on how you can help lead and alcoholic to the help they need. In the chapter "To Wives" there are some specific suggestions on how to approach the matter. Just substitute yourself for the wife and it will make sense. Leave a few pamphlets from AA lying around. If he thinks no one is looking he will probably read them. If you are able to openly discuss the situation, give him a copy of the big book to read. Never push him, just let him take his time to check things out. Let him know that if he wants help you will do all you can to make sure he gets it.
Next make contact with a sober member of AA who is willing to work with you on this. Fill him in on the details and ask him of he will come and talk to your BIL when the opportunity arises, as it surely will.
There will come a time when a window of opportunity will open for your BIL, maybe more than one. He will have a particularly bad episode and as a result, for a few hours, he will be open to getting help. Tell him you have found someone who had the same sort of problem and found a solution, and ask if he would be willing to talk to this man. Then get him together with your AA conact, and with any luck, the very least that will happen is a seed will be planted. The AA guy should be able to win the confidence of your BIL and hopefully from there he will want to work on solving his problem with his new friend.
An intervention can be a bit of a blunt instrument and perhaps should be held back as a last resort. It is always better if you can lead a man to discover his solution rather than push him into it.

[roncampb]

Originally Posted by aihflvt

"Major social anxiety" is what jumped out at me from this post. If this really is the case, this person will likely not stop drinking until that problem is addressed. The family practice clinic I go to has a psychologist on staff who can be present at appointments patients make with their family doctor. That is what I did - it was a lot less intimidating than trying to establish a relationship with a completely new doctor. Perhaps your family doctor has a therapist/counselor/psychologist colleague who would be willing to do that for you?

I had a question about the family - the mom bringing over the beer. Is she REALLY aware of the extent of the problem? For example, my dad knows I used to drink heavily, but every time I go see my dad or he comes to see me, he tries to foist off a cheap box of wine on me. I just good naturedly laugh and tell him I can't drink such swill and that's the end of it until the next time I see him. Also, being able to consume a fifth of 80 proof liquor over the course of an afternoon and evening was the time I decided I was done. Given my own experience, I can't imagine how anyone can drink that much and be remotely productive.

I think social anxiety plays a big role. But, not too long ago, he taught a class in front of a bunch of high schoolers by himself. If he did have major social anxiety, then could he even do that? It just doesn't all add up.

Well, his mom knows that this has put him in the hospital at least once. And, he has talked about needing help to her before. So, she may be extremely naive. Either way, there has been red flag after red flag, and they aren't even trying. They being the family.

[Firehazard]

Originally Posted by roncampb

I'm not sure, because he lies to everybody about everything. But I think that he drinks at least a fifth of alcohol a day. He says that he wants to go to rehab, but he wants to go all the way to Cali to do it which would cost the family about 25k. He lives in Indiana now. He is against doing it in Indiana, he wants to get away. To me, it seems that he just wants a vacation and isn't really committed to rehab.


There are just so many issues that I don't even know where to start

Why spend mass amounts of $$$ on rehab when they will just send him to AA or another free program to recovery. I would quit enabling him and take him for a ride to the nearest AA meeting. The more desperate and dirty part of the city the better then a walk back to the ponderosa. Yes I am a bit hardcore as I have seen people die of addiction.

[DayTrader]

Originally Posted by roncampb

he lies to everybody about everything. But I think that he drinks at least a fifth of alcohol a day. He says that he wants to go to rehab, but he wants to go all the way to Cali to do it which would cost the family about 25k. He lives in Indiana now. He is against doing it in Indiana, he wants to get away. To me, it seems that he just wants a vacation and isn't really committed to rehab.

There are other problems too. He seems to have major social anxiety which may be partly why he self medicates himself. And he has not come close to maturing or growing up. He is basically a baby in a 24 year olds body. He is a classic example of Allan from the movie hangover. That is his maturity level anyways.

There are just so many issues that I don't even know where to start.

Any help would be appreciated.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on it. Sure would have applied to me......

I'm with you on the rehab/vacation deal. I can hear myself saying the same thing. Really though, does he think he's going to run into someone there who's NOT in the same boat? lol. "Oh, I'll go to rehab but it has to be in Cali and it's $25k." please...... the three facilities I'm familiar with in Michigan all do similar things: dry you out safely, give you some information, and BEG you to do AA starting the DAY you get out. Those that take their recovery seriously once they're out of rehab have a great shot. Those that hope the experience of rehab will last and keep them sober......they don't get good results.

FWIW, alkies and addicts are among some of THE most accomplished liars and manipulators I've ever met.....PERIOD. yay us! lol

[roncampb]

Originally Posted by Firehazard

Why spend mass amounts of $$$ on rehab when they will just send him to AA or another free program to recovery. I would quit enabling him and take him for a ride to the nearest AA meeting. The more desperate and dirty part of the city the better then a walk back to the ponderosa. Yes I am a bit hardcore as I have seen people die of addiction.

I 100% agree with you. But the problem is now that I'm not around him anymore. I suppose that I could take him to rehab once I get some vacation. But that isn't for another 6 months. It is a good 6 hour drive down there to where he is at. And, I feel unless his parents step up, then there is no hope. His parents apathetic attitude towards all of this really bothers me. I'm no expert, but I feel everybody has to be 100% on board with this.