Ultimatums.....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 357
Ultimatums.....
Hi, I just wondered, has an ultimatum or the thought of losing your partner ever had any effect on helping you to stop drinking? I am getting so fed up of being with an active A that I feel I may need to give him an ultimatum soon - enter recovery or we'll have to be over. I'm not sure i can do it anymore when he seems to make only half-hearted efforts to stop. I want to be with him but it's just too much now. I want to ask him this so he can finally see he needs to decide between alcohol and our relationship - but I need to get to the stage where I really will end things if he doesnt quit - I dont want to say something I wont do. Just wondered if it might make him realise? All opinions welcomed!
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
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Giving an ultimatum might not help. But experiencing consequences from his actions might mean something. I'd say, leave. If you can't take any more, leave. Stand up for yourself. He'll either get the message or he won't. Either way it's your decision to make for your well being.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Have you read this forum? It's loaded with stories of people giving their A ultimatums. Ultimatums don't work. You are scratching and clawing at any possible way to hang onto him when you should be scratching and clawing at detaching from his chaos and taking care of yourself.
Even if he said okay, he'll go for treatment...that in itself means nothing. Getting sober is the easiest part. It is the living a sober life that is hard, and impossible if HE doesn't want it for HIMSELF. Least is right. Just leave the relationship if you don't want to be in one with an active alcoholic because that is what he is.
Even if he said okay, he'll go for treatment...that in itself means nothing. Getting sober is the easiest part. It is the living a sober life that is hard, and impossible if HE doesn't want it for HIMSELF. Least is right. Just leave the relationship if you don't want to be in one with an active alcoholic because that is what he is.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NE
Posts: 69
I got ultimatums all the time, coudln't quit. I wanted to but couldn't phsyically. My wife and I haven't really talked for 8 months now. It is nice for my recovery, don't know about her's though. We still live together, take care of our son, work, meetings, clean house etc...
I would say tactifully leave for a few months and see if he gets it. Don't leave in spite, or anger, or anything. Just tell him, you need to leave so he doesn't die. Maybe take him to dinner, talk rationally about it, if he wants to drink during dinner let him. And just explain you want to see if he can enjoy life without alchohol. Maybe call him every couple days to see how he is doing. Don't answer his calls, but make sure you call him every few days if you do care.
If he takes that seriously, you'll know in 3 or 4 months if he understands life.
I would say tactifully leave for a few months and see if he gets it. Don't leave in spite, or anger, or anything. Just tell him, you need to leave so he doesn't die. Maybe take him to dinner, talk rationally about it, if he wants to drink during dinner let him. And just explain you want to see if he can enjoy life without alchohol. Maybe call him every couple days to see how he is doing. Don't answer his calls, but make sure you call him every few days if you do care.
If he takes that seriously, you'll know in 3 or 4 months if he understands life.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Let me get this straight, you are coming into an Alcoholism Forum and trying to get a bunch of alcoholics to collude in supporting your attempts to disrespect and control your alcoholic??????
Wow, I guess you do want control...
...and he wants to drink.
It seems a little odd to me that you are so focused on him acting out of his disease that you appear to be completely blind to the fact that your wanting to control him and seeking justification for issuing manipulative ultimatums is a perfect example of you acting out of yours.
The irony is a little thick here.
Not for nothin', but how come you get to act out of yours and he doesn't?
Inquiring minds want to know.
He's an adult, just like you.
He is free to make his own choices, no matter how destructive and sick, just like you.
When you fail to recognize and respect his freedom and his right to make his own choices, that's your codependency causing you to disrespect him and your relationship with him just as much as he disrespects you and that relationship in his alcoholism.
If control is so important to you, why don't you try to exercise it where you actually have it -- on yourself and your own recovery? I think you'd be amazed at how much more effective you might be....
...and I'm not talking about "effective" at getting him to do what you want either....
...but effective in getting your own life together and finding your own happiness whether he is still drinking or not and whether he is still in your life or not.
freya
...and BTW, leaving for the reason of getting him to stop is still manipulation and control -- If you want to leave honestly and healthily, then it needs to be because that is what you have to do to take care of yourself.
Wow, I guess you do want control...
...and he wants to drink.
It seems a little odd to me that you are so focused on him acting out of his disease that you appear to be completely blind to the fact that your wanting to control him and seeking justification for issuing manipulative ultimatums is a perfect example of you acting out of yours.
The irony is a little thick here.
Not for nothin', but how come you get to act out of yours and he doesn't?
Inquiring minds want to know.
He's an adult, just like you.
He is free to make his own choices, no matter how destructive and sick, just like you.
When you fail to recognize and respect his freedom and his right to make his own choices, that's your codependency causing you to disrespect him and your relationship with him just as much as he disrespects you and that relationship in his alcoholism.
If control is so important to you, why don't you try to exercise it where you actually have it -- on yourself and your own recovery? I think you'd be amazed at how much more effective you might be....
...and I'm not talking about "effective" at getting him to do what you want either....
...but effective in getting your own life together and finding your own happiness whether he is still drinking or not and whether he is still in your life or not.
freya
...and BTW, leaving for the reason of getting him to stop is still manipulation and control -- If you want to leave honestly and healthily, then it needs to be because that is what you have to do to take care of yourself.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I can think of one alkie here who stopped because of an ultimatum from the wife. One. And he's doing quite well.
I had some "training" in alcoholism a long time ago... we were told about ultimatums, and how you have to do what you'll say you will.... hmmm, Read and re-read freya's post. That's the way it's done. It's all about you and your own happiness.
Mark
I had some "training" in alcoholism a long time ago... we were told about ultimatums, and how you have to do what you'll say you will.... hmmm, Read and re-read freya's post. That's the way it's done. It's all about you and your own happiness.
Mark
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 357
thanks, i just wanted to hear an A's point of view. I'm well aware of my own failings and my attempts to sort them out but I am writing on here because i wanted opinions on my ABF. I appreciate the replies. I wont give him an ultimatum to quit or me as such, but I will tell him when I am 100% ready that I will leave if he hasn't entered recovery becasue I cannot cope with being in a relationship with an active A. It is about me and what I want. If he truly wants to give up then he will. If he doesnt, then he will find himself single because I cant do it anymore.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
If he is capable of responding to an ultimatum, then he probably isn't an alcoholic.
I'm an alkie. When my wife at the time delivered one of her endless stream of ultimatums, I sincerely wanted to quit. I made all those sweet promises. And I really believed I would stick to them. Problem was, I couldn't manage my decision. I lacked the will power to choose. That's the nature of the beast of alcoholism.
I'm an alkie. When my wife at the time delivered one of her endless stream of ultimatums, I sincerely wanted to quit. I made all those sweet promises. And I really believed I would stick to them. Problem was, I couldn't manage my decision. I lacked the will power to choose. That's the nature of the beast of alcoholism.
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
You've gotten some tough talk here!
And you've taken the remarks gracefully Iwantcontrol.
But, I do notice you are still trying to attach that one big qualifier:
I will leave IF.
His journey of recovery may or may not happen. It would be wonderful if it did happen.
I can see that you are trying to sort this out as if you were with a "normie". You can give normies ultimatums: "IF you don't stop having that affair I'll leave" or "If you don't stop spending all your time with your buddies I'll leave"...or, etc etc. Normies will respond to ultimatums.
But they don't have a disease.
It's not just that he is behaving badly in a relationship: he has a serious disease that might be a bigger problem than his relationship problems with you. Relationship problems won't land him in the hospital with a failed liver or get him killed driving drunk, committing suicide drunk, injuring himself or others: alcoholism will.
What about seeing this as having a much larger scope? Try to visualize considering marriage with a cancer patient or a wheelchair bound person. I'm not exaggerating! That is what you would be taking on in a relationship with an active alcoholic.
His alcoholism issue goes beyond your relationship. Alcohol does kill hundreds of thousands of people every year.
It is, as most of us recovering alcoholics discovered the hard way, not just a bad habit. Boy, if it only was. I prayed for that.
It goes far beyond that though, alcohol creates a physical dependency in those people who have the allergy to it, (which is why not everyone becomes an alcoholic), a mental obsession that can affect our thoughts all day long.
If we could just stop, there wouldn't be rehab programs all over the place.
You have gotten some great advice here and that is to concentrate on what is best for you....not how you can change someone. Good luck!
And you've taken the remarks gracefully Iwantcontrol.
But, I do notice you are still trying to attach that one big qualifier:
I will leave IF.
His journey of recovery may or may not happen. It would be wonderful if it did happen.
I can see that you are trying to sort this out as if you were with a "normie". You can give normies ultimatums: "IF you don't stop having that affair I'll leave" or "If you don't stop spending all your time with your buddies I'll leave"...or, etc etc. Normies will respond to ultimatums.
But they don't have a disease.
It's not just that he is behaving badly in a relationship: he has a serious disease that might be a bigger problem than his relationship problems with you. Relationship problems won't land him in the hospital with a failed liver or get him killed driving drunk, committing suicide drunk, injuring himself or others: alcoholism will.
What about seeing this as having a much larger scope? Try to visualize considering marriage with a cancer patient or a wheelchair bound person. I'm not exaggerating! That is what you would be taking on in a relationship with an active alcoholic.
His alcoholism issue goes beyond your relationship. Alcohol does kill hundreds of thousands of people every year.
It is, as most of us recovering alcoholics discovered the hard way, not just a bad habit. Boy, if it only was. I prayed for that.
It goes far beyond that though, alcohol creates a physical dependency in those people who have the allergy to it, (which is why not everyone becomes an alcoholic), a mental obsession that can affect our thoughts all day long.
If we could just stop, there wouldn't be rehab programs all over the place.
You have gotten some great advice here and that is to concentrate on what is best for you....not how you can change someone. Good luck!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Many girlfriends, many ultimatums...never made any difference at all, like Keith said, because i am an alcoholic. I have known and seen with my own eyes heavy drinkers stop at the birth of a child or when meeting a new partner, the last one i knew navy diver friend of mine stopped drinking in 2002 and still doesn´t drink today...
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Awesome thread, and agree with littlefish, you've taken these comments very well.
As I mentioned, I had received some formal training in alcoholism and it wasn't until I became alcoholic that I realized that so much of what I had been "taught" was utter nonsense. This powerlessness thing... it is not just with the alcoholic himself, but all those around him... Iwantcontrol is as powerless over alcohol as her SO is. Not something most people who have not been affected by alcoholism understands... My wife didn't... I never got an ultimatum, but many discussions... I remember one or two in particular... It's kind of sad, really, the desperation, the powerlessness that everyone feels.
I want to hold out hope that an SO or family member can try and succeed to at least get one to become aware of the problem, bring the alcoholic at least some amount of willingness... Interventions?
Thanx Iwantcontrol for this topic. It's something we need to hear.
Mark
As I mentioned, I had received some formal training in alcoholism and it wasn't until I became alcoholic that I realized that so much of what I had been "taught" was utter nonsense. This powerlessness thing... it is not just with the alcoholic himself, but all those around him... Iwantcontrol is as powerless over alcohol as her SO is. Not something most people who have not been affected by alcoholism understands... My wife didn't... I never got an ultimatum, but many discussions... I remember one or two in particular... It's kind of sad, really, the desperation, the powerlessness that everyone feels.
I want to hold out hope that an SO or family member can try and succeed to at least get one to become aware of the problem, bring the alcoholic at least some amount of willingness... Interventions?
Thanx Iwantcontrol for this topic. It's something we need to hear.
Mark
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 512
I suppose it depends on the A and what motivates them. I more or less told my late ABF if you agreed on friday to rehab and it's monday and you're getting drunk in order to go...it's either me or the drugs-N-juice. He went to rehab for external reasons....because he relapsed in a couple weeks out of his half a$$ed attempt at in patient, and now he's dead. The ultimatum worked only in respects to getting him TO rehab. Actually doing the work and committing to sobriety? Nope. He died of an overdose within 4 months. The silver lining to the ultimatum really shined for myself. When I suspected relapse, I was able to put small baby steps into place to regain my leverage and move in a direction of MY choice with my own well being in mind.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 357
i'm really pleased with all the honest replies - thank you. I agree that we are all powerless, and it's hard. I have even felt myself thinking sometimes that I wish it were me who was the alcoholic and not him, and then it would be up to me alone to fix it. I know I need to fix myself, but I still want to be with him and it's difficult to accept that he'd rather be an A than be sober with me, but thats what it boils down to I guess.
Part of it is that I think if he will just go to rehab and try it, then he will either succeed in recovery or he will fail and give up. If it is the latter then at least I know he's tried all the tools available to him, and it was just that he wasnt ready to quit. Then I think it would be easier for me to let go. But I could be convicning myself here.
It's hard to think of alcoholism in the same way as cancer or another disease because of all the behaviour that goes with it, and because you can see them pouring the alcohol into themselves knowing what it will do to them and their friends and families.
Part of it is that I think if he will just go to rehab and try it, then he will either succeed in recovery or he will fail and give up. If it is the latter then at least I know he's tried all the tools available to him, and it was just that he wasnt ready to quit. Then I think it would be easier for me to let go. But I could be convicning myself here.
It's hard to think of alcoholism in the same way as cancer or another disease because of all the behaviour that goes with it, and because you can see them pouring the alcohol into themselves knowing what it will do to them and their friends and families.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by iwantcontrol 
he'd rather be an A than be sober with me, but thats what it boils down to I guess
I know that's a cryptic reply, but when I try to flesh out an explanation, words fail...
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
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Choice.
A good many people with an addiction can't quit drinking on their own no matter how earnest their intentions are. I needed to seek addiction treatment and self-help recovery groups in order to help me in my recovery efforts. I choose recovery and being in an active recovery program helps me recover from my alcohol addiction.
A good many people with an addiction can't quit drinking on their own no matter how earnest their intentions are. I needed to seek addiction treatment and self-help recovery groups in order to help me in my recovery efforts. I choose recovery and being in an active recovery program helps me recover from my alcohol addiction.
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Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 565
I've been given the ultimatum twice. Chose the liquor both times. If you're gonna give an ultimatum, you have to be prepared to lose the other person, because if you give an ultimatum and go back...
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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I think ultimatums only work if they are at the point where they want it for themselves, too. That was my experience anyway. My husband gave me an ultimatum after 2 years of marriage... I told him if he made me choose between him and drinking, I'd choose drinking. God, I hate admitting that- but I did. At the time the way I saw it was he might as well be asking me to quit eating. I couldn't imagine not drinking. He didn't leave. 13 years later I had reached a point where I couldn't function or stand to drink anymore. I couldn't imagine continuing to live the way I was. Even though it still seemed impossible to quit drinking, it seemed just as impossible to keep doing it. He sat me down and told me if I wanted to continue to live this way I could, but he couldn't do it anymore... it worked and I got help. The difference was ME though. The ultimatum helped push me into action, but it wasn't the reason I quit.
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